<p>I have some great friends at PC or who graduated from PC and family at URI etc. However, the truth is, the Brown folks get more access in my experience. Doors have opened up in this state when I mention Brown or a faculty member that has worked with them in the past, etc. that just don’t exist for other people.</p>
<p>That’s not a knock on PC-- it’s a fantastic school. Sometimes, a little extra helping of prestige does help, however.</p>
<p>bc,
You sound pretty desperate to dissuade anyone from thinking about how the local economy might affect one’s postgraduate job opportunities. Whatever. Gotta do whatcha gotta do, I guess. </p>
<p>Anyway, just to be nice, let me give a shout-out to the free-thinking innovators in Michigan as there are some interesting headlines to combat that 15%+ unemployment rate. </p>
<p>[A</a> Southwest Michigan growth industry: medical-marijuana economy is thriving | Kalamazoo News - - MLive.com](<a href=“http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2009/12/a_kalamazoo_growth_industry_fr.html]A”>A Southwest Michigan growth industry: medical-marijuana economy is thriving - mlive.com)</p>
<p>Beats the auto industry, don’t it?? :)</p>
<p>^ LOL. I’m not “desperate” about anything, hawkette. You’re the one who seems desperate to slime my alma mater. Why, I’m sure I’ll never know.</p>
<p>You want innovation?</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/24/opinion/24herbert.html?_r=2[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/24/opinion/24herbert.html?_r=2</a></p>
<p>If you are looking at top firms, it makes no difference. If you want to work at UBS or Goldman - schools like Dartmouth, Stanford, and Duke will do among the very best. However, past the top 15 or so schools, location starts to matter a little more.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Agreed that as the school is more selective and prestigious, the less location matters.</p>
<p>In NC, a Michigan grad would be known first and foremost as the home to Chris Webber (trying to call timeout against UNC) or losing to Appalachian St in football. Regional prestige is a real concept and Michigan (and many others) isnt known beyond sports in the South. It would be the same for a UNC grad in Detroit.</p>
<p>No, it would not. I worked in Atlanta and we recruited from some B10 schools and some southern schools and some northeast schools. Maybe big business people are a little more cosmopolitan.</p>
<p>barrons,
Can you expand further on what industries/companies you were recruiting for and if these were undergraduate students you were hiring and which Big 10 schools you are referring to?</p>
<p>^^ Well, most of the people I knew and graduated with at Michigan went on to highly successful careers in New York, DC, Boston, Chicago, the Twin Cities, Denver, Seattle, LA, or San Francisco, except for some of the native Michiganders who preferred to stay closer to home, mostly for family reasons. Many stayed in Ann Arbor, one of the faster-growing and most highly educated metropolitan regions in the U.S. And you know what? Those who stayed in Michigan have all had successful careers, too. But maybe you’re right, swish, some employers in some of the less cosmopolitan parts of the South may be less sophisticated. I’ll tell you what, though, the UNC grads I know here in the Twin Cities do quite well. Almost as well as the Michigan grads. Savvier employers here, I guess, who know quality when they see it ;-)</p>
<p>
As with so many things, it depends on the field. For oceanography, URI blows Brown out of the water (pun intended ;)). Indeed, only MIT and UCSD can seriously compete.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Perhaps an (albeit imperfect) economics analogy is in order:</p>
<p>[Inverse</a> demand function - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_demand_function]Inverse”>Inverse demand function - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>“barrons,
Can you expand further on what industries/companies you were recruiting for and if these were undergraduate students you were hiring and which Big 10 schools you are referring to?”</p>
<p>I worked for Pru Investments Real Estate group. We recruited Wisconsin, Michigan, Northwestern and Indiana plus Emory, UNC, Vanderbilt, Wharton, Harvard, and a few others. Mostly MBA’s. These were for investment managers.
Here’s the undergrad biz placment geography for last year</p>
<p>Location Base Average Salary,Average Signing Bonus Salary Range,# ofAccepts,% ofTotal</p>
<p>Chicago $53,182 $5,541 $30,000 - $69,800 73 19.7%
Madison $42,824 $2,864 $22,880 - $59,000 40 10.8%
Milwaukee $46,931 $3,818 $30,000 - $70,000 29 7.8%
Minneapolis/St Paul $49,456 $3,955 $30,000 - $65,000 49 13.2%
Other Midwest $46,569 $3,676 $21,600 - $65,000 41 11.1%
Other Wisconsin $47,231 $3,095 $24,960 - $71,300 57 15.3%
Total Midwest $48,456 $4,271 $21,600 - $71,300 289 77.9%
Mid-Atlantic $56,750 $10,000 $30,000 - $100,000 4 1.1%
Northeast $58,133 $7,827 $47,000 - $70,000 31 8.4%
South $48,250 $3,700 $40,000 - $55,000 9 2.3%
Southwest $51,067 $4,500 $49,200 - $54,000 4 1.1%
West $50,362 $5,000 $36,000 - $63,300 17 4.6%
International $50,422 $4,231 $40,000 - $71,074 17 4.6%</p>
<p>UM Biz undergrads have more east coast bent</p>
<p>BBA Graduate Acceptances By Geographic Region</p>
<p>2009 Detailed Compensation Information
Region Base Salary Signing Bonus Other Guaranteed Compensation
% of Reported Median ($) Mean ($) Range ($) % of Reported Median ($) % of Reported Median ($)
Northeast 33.2% 60,000 59,858 42,000 - 70,008 80.3% 10,000 29.7% 12,500
Mid-Atlantic 3.8% 51,996 49,401 30,000 - 60,000 42.9% 15,000 57.1% 5,000
Midwest 44.0% 55,000 54,203 26,400 - 72,000 67.9% 5,000 40.7% 5,000
South 3.3% 54,998 53,166 43,500 - 57,000 66.7% 4,250 33.3% 3,000
Southwest 2.2% 52,464 48,632 27,600 - 62,000 25.0% 4,000 50.0% 23,500
West 10.3% 65,000 64,184 36,000 - 79,200 47.4% 9,000 47.4% 8,000
International 2.1% 33,000 34,500 12,000 - 60,000 0.0% - 0.0%</p>
<p>“In NC, a Michigan grad would be known first and foremost as the home to Chris Webber (trying to call timeout against UNC) or losing to Appalachian St in football. Regional prestige is a real concept and Michigan (and many others) isnt known beyond sports in the South. It would be the same for a UNC grad in Detroit.”</p>
<p>Michigan has a national reputation for academics in larger cosmopolitan American cities. I can understand why someone from NC might find that a foreign concept.</p>
<p>^ Interesting data, barrons, thanks. Looks like about 88% of Michigan BBA grads land jobs in the Northeast, Midwest, or West, the regions with the highest mean and median starting salaries. Fewer than half (44%) stay in the Midwest, and while there are no in-state v. OOS breakdowns my guess is a large chunk of those end up in Chicago, the Midwest’s largest job center and financial capital (and note that roughly a quarter of Michigan’s BBA class ends up in I-banking, another 15% in “financial services” and 17% in consulting, jobs that in the Midwest tend to be concentrated in Chicago). About as many (43.5%) end up either in the Northeast or on the West Coast as in the Midwest.</p>
<p>Similar pattern for Michigan MBAs but starting salaries are significantly higher, and a larger fraction end up on the West Coast (20.2%) or go international (9.2%), while slightly smaller percentages stay in the Midwest (39.3%) or the Northeast (19.5%). </p>
<p>These figures do confirm that Michigan’s business school isn’t a major supplier of talent to firms in the South either at the BBA or MBA level, though by the look of things that may be at least in part a function of Michigan grads’ disinterest in that region where inter alia starting salaries are lower. </p>
<p>This does NOT look like a group that’s hurting for employment prospects. I suppose if one were being churlish she might say it confirms hawkette’s original point that Michigan grads will have difficulty finding jobs in that economically troubled state. But I’d question how many are even looking for jobs there. More likely, these are just smart, talented, well-prepared kids coming out of what is widely recognized as one of the nation’s premier business schools, willing and able to go wherever their best prospects are, and for many that means either Coast or, especially at the MBA level, overseas. Indeed, in a survey of Michigan BBA grads only about 10% said their main reason for accepting a position was geographic location. Nearly a quarter said “positioning for the future” was most important, another 13.8% said “intellectual challenge,” 11.7% said “lifestyle,” 9.5% said “financial gain,” and 8.7% said “prestige.” Only 5% said “security.” Sounds like a pretty confident and ebullient group.</p>
<p>Does location matter? Well, for Michigan business school grads, the answer appears to be “not so much.”</p>
<p>Yes, job location is large part personal choice. The South lacks the financial jobs some are seeking and pay is less (as is COL). Many UW grads prefer Chicago, Madison and Minn over NY and NY recruiters have noted such over the years which has lead to fewer NY firms recruiting at UW.</p>
<p>Barrons,
Thanks for the data. It’s interesting. I’m not surprised about the MBA stuff. It’s a different game than undergraduate and IMO, compared to the undergraduate choice, the choice of an MBA program will usually be a lot more consequential to one’s career and a lot more diversified in postgraduate placement options.</p>
<p>Bc,
Re U Michigan’s BBA placement, it looks to me like 75% of the class (or approx 225 out of 300 students) is either staying in the region (44%) or going to the Northeast (33%), probably mostly NY. I’ll leave it up to the judgment of the reader as whether to interpret this as a broad distribution. More significantly, I’ll let the reader decide whether this small segment of students is representative of the entire college. </p>
<p>The listed distribution for Ross is also not unexpected as NY and NJ are major sources of OOS students at U Michigan (about 25% of all OOS undergrads come from NY/NJ). My strong suspicion is that this NY/NJ concentration would be even higher within Ross. </p>
<p>As for your other observations, please understand that I have long accepted that there are subsets of very strong students at U Michigan. My belief is that the largest concentrations of these would be within the undergrad business school (representing 5-6% of the graduating class) and the engineering school (representing 15%). I don’t believe that the other undergraduate students are as uniformly strong. I also believe that far larger numbers and percentages of this group will be looking for work in the home state/region.</p>
<p>So will large numbers of Ivy grads.</p>
<p>This discussion got stupid and twisted way fast. College Search and Admissions-- the board where UMichigan fights against Hawkette, and sometimes Duke and JHU complain, too.</p>
<p>It’s getting to be all too predictable.</p>
<p>
Yeah, North Carolinians are unsophisticated. </p>
<p>Especially since [two</a> of the top 10 fastest growing cities](<a href=“http://www.citymayors.com/gratis/uscities_growth.html]two”>City Mayors: Fastest growing US cities) in the US are in NC. If you’re looking for Michigan cities, they’re all on the [shrinking</a> list](<a href=“http://www.citymayors.com/statistics/us-cities-growth-2007.html]shrinking”>City Mayors: Fastest growing US cities 2007).</p>
<p>Especially since the Research Triangle has the highest population of PhDs per capita in the country.</p>
<p>Especially since Charlotte (certainly until recently and perhaps even now) is/was the second largest banking center in the US in terms of assets.</p>
<p>Give me a break. Your ignorance is both inexcusable and offensive.</p>