Don’t highly selective schools also employ some kind of number rating, the regional AO and another one give 1-5 for each app and based on that, it goes further.
You can find videos describing the process on YouTube such as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-OLlJUXwKU . The huge difference will be the number of applicants between Amherst College and Ivies. They cannot do this for 30K applicants. This kind of workflow is for 8K applicants. So regional AO and another AO have to cut the number down to a level which is manageable.
My understanding is that, like everyone is saying, at least 2 people at least glance at every application, and, if these two agree to deny the app, it goes in the trash. This allows them to cut down a good chunk of students initially. From there, I think they then go to committee but they always end up wanting to admit way more kids then there are spaces, so they end up going through and cutting the admit list down until it is small enough.
The short video above for Amherst indicates that very few candidates actually are being presented at committee. Notice that those committee members have summary sheets for the candidates. It takes time to prepare for those sheets. That is why I suspect there might be just two two to three hours sessions per day. They have to find time to prepare for those sheets outside the meeting.
I suspect that admissions works very differently at a school that gets 8,406 apps (Amherst 2021) vs 30,000 apps.
It seems like some colleges are changing the way the apps are read and processed in order to manage the huge numbers. Technology is also enabling big changes in how apps are processed and read. Not sure what Brown does, but this article gives some insight into the “traditional system” as well as a look at the new methodology that some colleges are adopting:
(https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2017/06/12/some-colleges-adopt-new-committee-based-system-doing-first-review):
Also, the Amherst video, while fascinating and reflective of the thought process that goes into selective admissions, was uploaded to YouTube in 2013, but who knows when it was filmed? There is not a single laptop/computer in that room. I find it hard to believe that admissions officers are hand writing notes and bringing in reams of paper in 2018, in a day and age where the entire college application process is automated.
While I am sure the process is different to some degree for each institution, they are all confronted with the same dynamics – over 30,000 applications for HYPB, with at least half of the candidates academically qualified by virtue of grades and test scores and a finite amount of time and evaluators to get the list down to 2000± acceptances. Logic dictates that institutions will want to cull the list down quickly with pretty broad filters initially so that more time and resources can be spent on the final cuts of the most qualified candidates. I know for Yale, approximately 6000 made it to final committee last year. Also for Yale, the regional AO can cut a candidate without a second reader. Brown may be different, but with over 30,000 applications to go through, you have to wonder whether every application gets 2 reads unless the second read is purely perfunctory (but then, why bother).
@Faulkner1897 : The Amherst video cannot be ancient. It mentions there are 8000+ candidates plus it is on official Bloomberg channel. You can watch news live on that channel. The link on insidehighered offers a good view of how initial culling works. To narrow the candidate pool down to 1 out of 16, there must be more rounds of culling before committee. The group of Brown committee members I met at ADOCH is about the same size shown on the Amherst video.
Here is another interesting glimpse into a selective school’s process - Stanford. This article is from late 2013, so it is already dated and things may have changed: https://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?article_id=66225
I do. No earlier than 2012, which is when Katie Fretwell was named Dean of Admissions, which is how she is identified in the video.
@BKSquared @skieurope – Very helpful insider information.
AOs will read more than 750 at a school with 30k plus apps.
Considering so many have been at it a while, you can imagine how they form a basis for a comparative subjective review.
Did every one of those adcoms you met at ADOCH claim to have read your app, @TheOldTimer? This was recent?
…oh, and ski, I was just trying to be diplomatic when I wrote “may,” not go OT on the “sources” people like to cling to. Lol.
That Amherst video is frightening. One AO said he isn’t even really sure why he puts his hand up for one candidate and not another. And everyone they discussed has extreme circumstances. Family lost the family store. Student got all 5s on APs without taking the classes. Dad had an affair with a 23 year old prostitute. Good grief.
@lookingforward : Brown admissions committee members were introduced by school officials at 2017 ADOCH parents reception. They had completed their mission. The hard part was recruiting at that time. My child has a best friend who got Stanford admission but chose Brown (don’t doubt it, it is on newspaper). Brown is the best place to do pre-med so we chose Brown (we are not PLME). Parents reception was a social event. No one would try to pry others’ secret with questions such as how you pick the 2,000 out of 30,000. In terms of stats, GPA 4.82 (weighted), three SAT II (all 800), , 8 AP (all 5) will earn the rights to be presented on final committee review table, I guess.
^ So you met adcoms, not necessarily learned how many sit on committee at one time. ?
Yes, there’s a lot of culling, a huge shakedown before final discussions. No, stats alone won’t get one to final table. If x% make it through first cut, much, much fewer get to committee.
@lookingforward : I totally agree with you. Stats alone won’t gain the rights to the final table. Stats just serve as base so the file won’t get thrown out early. But the stats above is a bit unusual so the rest of the application packet got to the next round to be reviewed. Picking 1 out of 16 is very difficult so extreme circumstances will benefit.
You probably heard numerous cases in which people got into HYPSM but not Brown. Brown definitely is focusing on things outside stats.
To answer the original question, Amherst says, in a slightly different NPR interview/audio clip (longer than the Bloomberg one), that 85% of apps had already been eliminated when they sat down to review the ones they do in committee. So the (seemingly outsize) consideration of special circumstances is not surprising - these kids have already made the academic cut. Now they’re looking to differentiate among the very top applicants.
https://www.npr.org/2011/03/28/134916924/Amherst-Admissions-Process
Wow! In the NPR Amherst audio clip, the AO says if there are too many in the “Yes” pile, it is in fact a lottery. OK. “It is not you. It is me.”
@TheOldTimer If convenient, could you share the newspaper about the boy choosing Brown over Stanford? (pre-med too?) Thanks!
@hooverhoo : Sorry, the newspaper article is about the person who got admissions into Stanford. The person is very humble and only my child knows this fact at school. When I heard it, I doubted it myself and looked up the name on the web. Sure enough, the fact was confirmed on the person’s local newspaper. This is CC … I cannot share the link to identify the person.
For people who want to go to medical school/Law school/Graduate school, Brown is excellent choice. (Brown is great at every aspect, not just for people who want to do advanced degree) If you really care about school rankings, make sure you look at Best Undergraduate Teaching section, not the National University Rankings section. You don’t want admissions to a college to be the high point of your life. Everyone knows Janet Yellen has a PhD from Yale. Do you know she has a BA from Brown?
There is a thread on CC regarding why Brown is the best place to do pre-med … relatively high GPA, excellent teaching, and the most important part is the life. It is a long journey to be a doctor. Life at Brown will be very different compared with other schools for the next four years. You don’t want to get exhausted somewhere on the journey.
@TheOldTimer Yes Brown is a great school. DD’s school sent students to Brown every year, no PLME/pre-med though, all engineering. I actually chatted with one dad just a few days ago, his two kids are all very happy there, one recently got induced into Tau Beta Pi.