<p>I know, geomom. But if by letting them know before RD is over I help other kids at ds’s school, I’m willing to do it. In fact, the school last on ds’s list is pretty popular with kids at his school, but, unless he gets a full ride there, he’s not really considering it. And after reading what people wrote about the big scholasship weekends, I have to wonder whether he’ll even apply for the full ride (four are offered but upwards of 150-200 kids go for the big weekend, not great odds).</p>
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This is completely reasonable. The key words are “asks” and “sure.”</p>
<p>I am very willing to help my kids’ peers all I can. But in the bigger picture, if the kids/parents roll over and do everything the colleges want, then colleges are never pressured to do the things that would be good for all of us. Like be more transparent about their processes, for one.</p>
<p>By the way, about the big scholarship interviews/weekends… in the end I thought the process and experience were valuable as poise-builders for my son, even though no really big bucks came our way.</p>
<p>I know of a few situations that took time to play out–</p>
<p>a student-athlete had 4 schools…and needed time to see what the fin-aid would look like–In the end the student turned down 2 ivies for a very nice LAC</p>
<p>a student athlete–heavily recruited choose a large flagship school because of Olympic aspirations, and the family was up front with the school and got almost a full ride…</p>
<p>a student did not get in to the popular in-state flagship and in the end couldn’t afford the out-of-state flagship…Scrambling, student applied to a private in-state and the parents went into the Fin-Aid office asking for help. They got it.</p>
<p>So the bottom line I gather is–deciding what is Safe, Match and Reach varies and FinAid does complicate the equation</p>
<p>But here’s the funny part: Many of you, both at private and at public schools, are proud of your schools’ college admissions records. Many of you chose a school in part on that basis. When you do that, it’s a little hypocritical to complain about GC practices that doubtless enhance their relationships with desirably colleges and contribute to their and the school’s – and perhaps your child’s – success in admissions.</p>
<p>The whole, “we don’t want kids collecting scalps” policy doesn’t seem to stem from wanting to prevent kids from having choice in April, it seems to stem from perhaps some faculty member’s child who didn’t get accepted to their top school. So, the school thinks by pressuring kids to decline their “less than top choice schools” - others in the school have a better chance. </p>
<p>That may all be good and fine, but the family’s first priority is to their own child’s interests…and that includes waiting to find out $$ situation and/or seeing if the child changes his mind about his “top choice.” </p>
<p>This reminds me of schools that don’t like the National Merit process because their own kids often don’t score high enough.</p>
<p>It seems that the school is trying to have its own ED policy. </p>
<p>However, I agree that any child that knows “for sure” that they won’t be going to a particular school, should decline ASAP so that those on the waiting list or those applying RD have a better chance.</p>
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<p>Absolutely agree with this part. I’d argue that “seriously considering” covers a wider range than seems to be the case when a GC says to rank the schools in order, 1-10, and then just toss out #7 when you’re accepted to #4. If the student visited #4 and #7, is convinced that they’d definitely take #4 over #7 and has no money worries, then sure, withdraw the app from the lower ranked school. More power to the school for spreading a “no counting scalps” culture. But if the student is waiting to make visits or compare financial aid, then all of those schools are still under serious consideration and apps should not be withdrawn.</p>
<p>Actually, mom2, the faculty kids at good private schools I know tend to do just fine in college admissions. The point of the policy is to give GCs credibility when they advocate for a kid, and to avoid head-to-head competition with classmates (because even if colleges say they don’t compare students from the same school, most people don’t believe them). And, yes, based on the GCs’ experience and track record, I think we have to accept the possibility – probability even – that “pressuring kids to decline their ‘less than top choice schools’” does indeed give classmates a better chance. And I reiterate: I don’t believe anyone does that where comparing financial aid offers is a significant concern. No one has suggested that is appropriate.</p>
<p>I have definitely seen kids who know “for sure” they won’t be going to a particular college leaving their applications open just to see what happens.</p>
<p>Really glad to see this thread about withdrawing the apps for a subset of schools. Whatever we decide, it is a good discussion to have with son. Glad we are not getting pressured at this point.</p>
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<p>Maybe it’s my public school mentality that’s stopping me here, but I don’t see why my kids would have any need whatsoever to even tell the GC what their choices are, in order, or what they get accepted to when that happens.</p>
<p>If my daughters applies to colleges A, B, C, D, and E, what difference does it make to the GC which she happens to prefer in what order? What’s the GC going to do with that information? Absolutely nothing other than say, “That’s nice, dear.” The acceptances (hopefully!) will come directly to my D and then she discusses them with us, her parents, and we go from there. I don’t see what role the GC plays, at all. What possible value could the GC add if D is choosing between certain schools? The GC’s role is to write the recommendation(s) when asked, and to ensure that transcripts go out as requested.</p>
<p>^JHS in post #53 explained it</p>
<p>Do those of you with private school GC’s actually give your GC <em>input</em> on where your kid ultimately goes? I’m not in the habit of letting people other than my H / myself / my kids weigh in on how to spend $200,000 of my money. If desired, a GC is certainly welcome to <em>suggest</em> schools to apply to, but that’s about it. </p>
<p>How does a GC get involved once there’s an <em>acceptance</em> on the table? I don’t get that part. Seriously. Even if it’s an ED situation where the kid is now going to be withdrawing any other apps that are in play – isn’t that for the <em>kid</em> to do, to contact the other schools and say “please withdraw me from consideration”? What does the GC have to do with it? I truly am perplexed here.</p>
<p>Our GCs were actually College Counselors…that is, all of them had experience working in college admissions throughout the country, and the parents aren’t exactly right there to help make a list. So the college counselors will suggest schools, as you mentioned, help the student refine their list, and will assess the likelihood of acceptance. Ultimately, the student picks where they want to apply and attend (I didn’t discuss my decision of where I’d go with my counselor after acceptances came in), but the counselors have considerable say in what colleges are reasonable choices and what is not (and occasionally, this is to the detriment of the student, since they are trying to make the school’s numbers look best), and they do write a recommendation - someone who comes across as unwilling to listen will likely not give them as good an impression as someone who will work with them in the decision.</p>
<p>The parents do not communicate with the college counselors, except perhaps by talking with the child. At the age of 17, the child should be ready to talk with their parents about college. After 3 years at a boarding school, the student should be able to make their own list taking advice from the CC and their parents. My parents had 0 say in my process, except to let me know what financially was necessary.</p>
<p>With that said, no counselor would tell students to withdraw candidacy or would say “go here.” They may say things that students read as “Don’t apply here, you have no chance,” but even then, I’m unsure if it’s quite that absolute or if the students just overreact.</p>
<p>Okay, but you went to Andover, right? Presumably big bucks are paid for that kind of personal attention! I’m talking about normal, everyday public high schools where the counselors have a couple hundred kids and really <em>can’t</em> know them beyond meeting with them once or twice a year.</p>
<p>I did, but I was responding to your saying “those of you with private school GC’s.” It’s possible that I misunderstood, though.</p>
<p>What I’ve heard from the friends I have who attended the local public school, their counselors hardly knew where they were applying. One sent a letter of recommendation to the wrong school, even. They were willing to offer suggestions when asked by the student (or presumably the parent), but, good natured as the suggestions were, you had to take them with a grain of salt. The people who ended up accepted at the Ivies often were told not to apply by their counselors. I can say that my district was particularly incompetent, however; the town over actually has a good counseling program.</p>
<p>You’re right; that is what I said. Andover seems a special case of “private school”! That’s not just “private school”! I find it hard to believe that a lot of the private schools in my area have any more knowledge of adcoms, etc. than the public schools. </p>
<p>And, yes, the grains of salt need to be quite large. When I mentioned to a teacher that we were taking the kids east to look at schools there, she said something to the effect of “Yeah, well, I would bet that Harvard is really looking for kids from the midwest, that could be a real advantage.” It was all I could do to restrain myself, LOL. Uh - I don’t THINK so. Like Harvard’s never seen anyone from the greater Chicagoland area ever send an app. LOL.</p>
<p>*I have definitely seen kids who know “for sure” they won’t be going to a particular college leaving their applications open just to see what happens. *</p>
<p>I, and others, have already said that we’re against that. But, that’s no worse than kids who apply to schools that they know “for sure” they won’t go to - just to see what happens. (And, worse…Some who’ve been accepted ED then want to leave their other apps open, to see “what happens.”)</p>
<p>I think the words “collecting scalps” is so snarky that it suggests more than just being concerned about others. If the concern is for others, why not just say that?</p>
<p>Pizzagirl: At my children’s former snooty (but nothing like Andover) private day school, the college counselors were senior faculty members, each of whom had responsibility for 12-15 seniors. They DID meet with parents, but they met with the kids a lot more often. They clearly regarded part of their job as strong-arming parents into accepting the school’s more accurate perception of reality, and managing parental expectations. Also protecting kids from parental pressure to go here or there.</p>
<p>You may not like that – lots of people didn’t. Sometimes there was a lot of tension. I was privy to one situation where the kid was disappointed in her admission results, and felt burnt out and wanted to take a gap year. The faculty thought that was a good idea; the parents, who were big contributors, seriously didn’t. I think the parents won that one, but there were a lot of meetings and clucking tongues.</p>
<p>mom2: I don’t think the issue is as simple as helping others. More important, I think, is the counselors maintaining credibility with the colleges: If one of our kids is applying, the kid is serious about the college, and if that changes we’ll ask him to withdraw his app. We may not promise he’ll go if accepted (unless we do – sometimes they do), but we can promise he’s enthusiastic about the college and you have a shot at him if you accept him. </p>
<p>That may or may not help any current classmates, but it has helped kids from the school in the past, and probably will in the future, too.</p>
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<p>Ah. See, the difference is, I think I have a much greater grip on the reality of selective college admissions than my kids’ GC :-). She is a perfectly nice woman, don’t get me wrong, and with a heart of gold. But I don’t particularly think they have any “expertise” in getting kids into top colleges. Some of the kids get into top colleges because, well, someone has to win the lottery sometime, but I don’t really see it as the school’s doing. Maybe I’m being too negative.</p>