Is there a solution I'm just not seeing?

Parents Forum
1

<p>Here's the old thread:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/914272-please-help-7.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/914272-please-help-7.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And Here's the update:</p>

<p>Hi Everyone,
I'm not sure why I keep coming back to this thread-- it's been 18 months since my first thread (above) when S was still a senior in high school (when problems first emerged) then again after the disasters following the fall semester and then the updates when he came home early in the spring on a LOA from college.</p>

<p>It's been many months since his return home and in the past month he moved out to join my H as we are separating.</p>

<p>Since his time home, S has essentially been dysfunctional. Never did get a job, read a book, engage in sports. He plays one of his instruments irregularly, spends some time cooking healthy food, spends at least 10 hours + on online video games and he sees many of his old friends from high school who are still seniors (which is where he would have been had he not graduated early) on the weekend as if nothing is wrong (in fact that's the only time he showers and makes any plans to engage in life outside our home).
He saw a therapist weekly - stopped once in April and then again in May and now again in June. Without violating his confidentiality with the 18 year old patient-- therapist says depression and serious avoidance behavior disorder are the diagnosis. S has been a reluctant participant-- when the issues get tough, he clams up and avoids scheduling the next weekly appointment - taking lapses for a few weeks at a time. Therapist suggests a full psychiatric work-up and a medical exam. Son refuses.
Although behavioral signs point to depression, I'm still not convinced that there is some underlying metabolic issue including thyroid or insulin based irregularities given previous medical history. He also sustained a head injury (in a sporting accident) way back in 10th grade which was also in my earlier posts. </p>

<p>The young man refuses medical treatment (see earlier posts on fear of blood tests), a medical exam, any sort of meds and it's just awful to watch him disintegrate. He is not on speaking/texting/emailing terms with me for over a month. My soon-to-be ex still feels it's appropriate to allow S to hit bottom and then he'll dig himself out and get help.<br>
I don't care about school (he has up to another 18 months off on the LOA) -- but I just feel sick about watching such a once gentle-kind-happy and wonderful human being with so much academic promise sink to such an ugly-alone and unwell place of existence. </p>

<p>I cannot drag him into treatment, I cannot have him committed (as he isn't a danger to himself or others (well no guarantees of course)).</p>

<p>I just cannot accept the fact that his life has gone where it has gone.
Have others who have been to this point seen an option I'm not considering? What am I missing?</p>

<p>I've moved on with my marital life. I'm not missing H and in fact enjoying being apart from him (our marriage was ending regardless of issues with S - we just prolonged it to attempt stability for S this year). But I still want to be a parent to my S--an young adult with very serious emotional issues .</p>

<p>Any advice?</p>

<p>H says he will ask S to leave his place end of summer unless S has a job or returns to school. School?! are you kidding me- -the kid cannot even shave and shower on a daily basis. </p>

<p>Rambling on-- here, so sad about this whole thing.
Thanks for listening. If I'm missing an option-- please let me know.</p>

<p>Please-- if you have a super smart, over-achieving kid in high school who suddenly is seriously off base-- take it seriously -- don't send them to college even if they insist!<br>
My S should have never left for college last year and is now in a worse place than before he left.</p>

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<p>What will you & S do if he has to leave H’s place at the end of summer? It seems that some planning is in order. Are you seeing any therapist? What does s/he recommend for this situation? Would definitely try to get therapist to help convince S to get a full medical exam, with blood testing (even if he needs mild sedation or numbing patch so he won’t feel the needle). Good luck!</p>

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<p>OP, I can’t offer any ideas about other avenues to pursue, but I do want to offer my sympathy. I’ve watched friends struggle with kids suffering from mental illness who refuse treatment, and it is heartbreaking.</p>

<p>I think that it is possible that you are on to something in your thoughts about metabolic dysfunction affecting his mental state. For example, I’ve read that there is a significant overlap between diabetes and depression in terms of the number of individuals suffering from both. The reason why is not clear.</p>

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<p>I second HImom’s suggestion of the numbing patch to get through the blood tests. They work well and eliminate the sensation of the needle (and the anxiety in advance). It does sound like a major checkup is in order.</p>

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<p>I agree with HIMom that it could be helpful for you to see a therapist if you are not already doing so. Perhaps there is a way to seek professional advice on how to avoid S doing nothing for the indefinite future, all the while refusing to get medical help or consistent therapy. </p>

<p>I’m not sure how S can hit “rock bottom”, as mentioned by H, if S is allowed to play video games for 10 hours+ per day while living with H.</p>

<p>Will H actually kick S out at the end of the summer? If so, where will S go? Why did S go to H? What will happen if S wants to come back to you?</p>

<p>It is a positive thing that S will shower etc. to see his friends. Do you think that the sight of friends going to college in the fall will help S, or not help S?</p>

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<p>The heart wrenching truth is that there is little or nothing we can do as parents to directly address many issues with our kids once they become adults. We can only refuse to become enablers and provide incentives for going down certain avenues. Unless the person meets the burden of proof that he is dangerous to self and others, s/he can’t be institutionalized and made to get treatment.</p>

<p>I agree that you need professional help right at hand because there is no easy solution here, and someone who has seen situation similar to this and is a professional would know the resources available. This is also extracting a toll from you, something you should seriously consider. We are not so young anymore and may not bounce back from these blows as easily as we used to do. </p>

<p>If you cannot afford private counseling for yourself, look for mental health services that are subsidized and also for groups like Al-Anon. They are not just for alcohol issues. </p>

<p>Mental illness is rampant in young adults. For many, it’s a passing thing and if they can just get through this dark period with harming themselves or others, they often do fine. It’s getting them through this that is the challenge. </p>

<p>Good luck, and God bless.</p>

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<p>overacheiversmom—The good news about depression is that it is usually time limited, even without treatment. Without treatment it does takes longer. Are you in counseling for yourself? Perhaps your son’s depression is related to the break-up of the marriage. If so, you and your husband recovering and getting on with your lives may relieve him. Many a parent seek counseling due to worries about their child. Having a positive/hopeful outlook with him will probably help. Keep looking for the positives and looking for ways that you can subtly comment/endorse them.</p>

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<p>First, I would think your son needs a HgA1C to see what his blood sugar average over the last 3 months might be. I have a daughter with type 1 diabetes, which is quite different, but nevertheless, have seen firsthand for many years, the effects of low or high blood sugars on energy, cognitive skills and mood. Your son is lucky to have diabetes in remission due to weight loss, if that is the case, but there may still be some substantial fluctuations during the day. The best thing would be a meter and testing every few hours for a few days, to see what is really happening. (Tell him my daughter had to prick her finger 12 times/day and had 5 shots/day at age 4. Seriously, Emla cream, an anesthetic, will help with the phobia).</p>

<p>I don’t think you have done anything that you should regret. If he had not gone to college, he might be in the same situation. At this point, he has a known, familiar place to return to if things start to work out better. If he doesn’t go back to college and pursues, say, cabinet-making or plumbing, he will always feel better that he tried; otherwise he would always wonder.</p>

<p>Therapy is not always the answer for kids this age. Believe it or not. (I just read a study about this, but sorry, I cannot find it; I will look some more). And finding the right therapist can be almost impossible for some kids. I think it can work well for the parent to talk with a therapist, testing strategies and releasing emotions that the situation raises. That reliable support for the parent, every week or two, can really help interactions with the kids.</p>

<p>To some extent, your husband is right. Your son may need to hit bottom. The presence of anesthetics such as video games can delay or prevent that, unfortunately. He has a home, food, clothing…the bottom will not be material, but emotional or even spiritual.</p>

<p>Does your son understand that there are medications that can help him? If he is against meds, would he even try an herbal treatment such as St. John’s Wort or Sam-E, or 5 HTP? Even one day of relief might convince him that a pharmacological treatment could help.</p>

<p>I would think that returning to college with his peers might be a powerful motivator. Has this been discussed? Does he want to still be in his room while all of his high school friends move on?</p>

<p>Alternatively, perhaps he really does not want to go to college, and there might be other routes he would prefer. How about a job coach or some other professional who does life or job counseling, without the implication of pathology that comes with a therapist?</p>

<p>I would get straight in your own mind about whether you feel he is suffering from an illness for which he is not to blame, or is an “immature jerk.” You could talk this over with a therapist. It would seem that you could be more of an effective support if you think well enough of him to see it as the former, not the latter, but it is difficult to judge if this is the case, from afar. Depression is certainly physiological (and he could also have low thyroid, adrenal gland fatigue, or other physical issues along with the diabetes).</p>

<p>I have personal experience with a kid who languished for two years and then turned around after" hitting bottom". The important thing was to keep a supportive relationship between parent and child (naturally, with some lapses here and there). Retaining love and esteem for your suffering child may help bring about a better outcome, hard as it may be at times. Many kids (and parents) go through this kind of thing and many of them end up fine after a year or two.</p>

<p>“Adjustment disorder” really isn’t a bad term. The idea is that once a transition is complete, or once the brain development is complete, things recover. For some this is true, for others, this age can mean onset of more chronic issues, often brain-based. It still sounds very probable that your son has a temporary problem, so I would gratefully embrace the term “adjustment disorder.” Much better than bipolar disorder or schizophrenia, which also strike at this time of life.</p>

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<p>Convince your son to at least TRY medication if the therapist thinks it will help him. It’s not a life long sentence and can work miracles. You may see a difference very quickly (days) in his behavior but your son may take quite a bit longer (weeks) to start actually feeling better (so that one day of relief won’t happen). I don’t think letting him hit bottom is a good idea–the deeper the hole, the harder it is to get out of. Depressed people simply do not have the energy to help themselves–even at the bottom. That he is able to rally for his friends is great but it doesn’t mean he doesn’t need help.
Maybe after lifting his mood it’ll be easier to get him to a medical exam.
Good Luck! I know how hard this is on all of you.</p>

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<p>overachieversmom, I try to shout this from the rooftops on every thread I can! My son has different issues, but being away at school for a year was a very big net negative for him. I don’t know if I have convinced anyone - all of us parents of bright boys with issues seem to have the same, “we’ve got to let him try” attitude when they are high school seniors. I don’t think I would have paid attention to the advice I now give to everyone else.</p>

<p>I do have the same concerns that you do. My son has physical issues as well as mental. I don’t want to come down too hard on him for certain things if there is a physical cause. I suspected diabetes with my son and he was willing to go in for a physical. It turns out that he was severly anemic - not “take iron pills” anemic, but “come in right now for an iron infusion” anemic. After six months of treatment, the doctor is now convinced that he has a blood disease and that there is nothing to be done. SO…is he “lazy” (also plays lots of video games) because he is lazy, or is he lazy due to chronic anemia?</p>

<p>IT IS SO MUCH MORE DIFFICULT WHEN THEY ARE ADULTS. I have come to sympathize with parents whose mentally ill kids commit crimes…the public always says, “why didn’t the parents DO something?” to which I reply “what, exactly, within the bounds of the law and current medical practice, were they supposed to do?”</p>

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<p>Wow – thank you everyone for kind words and I’m glad I didn’t get hit with unwarranted attacks for putting myself out there. Seen that here on CC.</p>

<p>Yes – I’ve been seeing a therapist. She only hears one side of things, but also has great respect for the therapist my son is seeing. She can hear that he’s troubled but cannot make a diagnosis. I’ll be honest, she thinks I’m being a bit too hard on my S. Physicians in the community respect the therapist who is working with my S – he does good things with young men and isn’t keen a drugs. The fact that he indicated that our S would benefit from drugs and should get a full MD work up describes how bad things are.</p>

<p>S tells us both for months he wants to return to school. Yet, it’s now June and he hasn’t returned the LOA from nor registered for classes. Reality- financial aid package hasn’t been awarded b/c he’s off their radar as an active student on a LOA. Two good friends from HS are also heading to the same institution in the Fall and he believes it will all work out fine. Yet, the transition period of this many months (it has been close to five and there’s about 2.5 left) doesn’t show anything in the way of behaviorial patterns indicating success ahead. If he’s not able to live a healthy life with routines now - the overwhelming pressures/stressors of college will take him right back.</p>

<p>Sure he is certainly upset about the pending divorce-- what child wouldn’t be (older sibling didn’t seem phased and thought it was in the making for years). And I’m sure he sees me as having thrown him out. I did throw him out-- he was violent, disrespectful and disagreeable on a hourly basis. Regardless of whether there is depression or he’s just a troubled immature young man-- you cannot live with someone who treats people and your property this way. He was offered his own apartment-- first two months rent was to be on us, after which he needed to stand on his own two feet. He said he wasn’t ready to do that. He also said he didn’t need to pay us rent b/c if he hadn’t graduated early, he was entitled to still live here. This entitlement attitude didn’t sit will with me, especially since he left a trail of dirty dishes and a room that smelled so awful from dirty laundry and the smell of stinky young man sweating for hours with the door closed while playing video games in a curtain drawn dark room. I don’t feel bad that I asked him to leave-- but i do feel bad that “the old sweet person I knew” doesn’t want to spend any time with me and seems to have disappeared. Reality- my teen son is gone, and the young man that has emerged is an unhappy and unpleasant person. It’s hard to respect someone that treats you badly-- even if they are deeply ill. I just cannot get past that.</p>

<p>I know he shouldn’t return to school in the fall. Reality-- between his academic scholarships (which he hasn’t forfeited - he’s on probation) and his financial aid (we have two in school) – he can literally borrow the little amount he needs to make it in the Fall (which is how he returned last spring). He will fail without the support system of therapy, an academic coach and some sort of meds. That will be the final strike that looses him the spot at Prestigious U. When he is well, he has all the brains to do just fine at that institution-- he’s actually extremely bright even at this highly ranked institution (got As on all his finals, but didn’t attend classes for half a semester-- so he barely earned D/C in his classes).</p>

<p>I guess what I’m asking is what can i do to get him to take positive steps between now and fall if he really is going to return?
Or what can I do to help him find his next steps in life? I can see he’s torn-- he probably wants to take time away from school but doesn’t see options or is acting on finding options that are productive and enjoyable. He cannot be happy living in an online video game world – that’s no life. But he says that he doesn’t want me to make any suggestions - b/c if I make a suggestion, then he says he cannot take the suggestion out of principle (immature / emotional baggage). He claims he is the “victim of a hover mom”. He feels he’s incapable to make decisions b/c I always helped him to make those decisions. This might have some truth to it-- but that’s emotional baggage that a few months of therapy would undo (I even offered to come to as many sessions as he needed if he had stuff to get off his chest in the presence of an unbiased third party-- he said no thanks). But he’s landed himself in a place that is a life of emptiness and that’s not normal-- that’s depression-- his behavior and lifestyle choices are much worse than simply “issues to work out”. </p>

<p>H is totally useless here-- hitting bottom can mean drugs (although unlikely- my S won’t even take an tylenol for a headache), violence or even suicide. When I mention this, H says, if he’s going to commit suicide we cannot stop him. H is a total idiot. Do you hear my frustration. Co-parenting with this man for so many years has been ridiculous - he’s clueless about their woes. When either of them has an issue- -they never seek his counsel. I’ve had to shoulder this plus my full time career for years-- and I am so tired of it. I’ve been a single parent to three kids (2 plus H)!</p>

<p>Well- these threads are like an anonymous blog and they are so helpful.
Hearing how many others have experienced this doesn’t make it go away, but knowing that many have overcome the illness and move on takes some of the pain away. Patience is a virtue and I need more of it to just wait a few more years.</p>

<p>Thank you thank you thank you wonderful CC community!</p>

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<p>Is there anything productive your son likes doing that could translate into some temporary work? (Like building things or painting?) How about volunteer work? I don’t mean to sound as clueless as I probably sound but I’m someone who has struggled with depression my whole life. The best way to get myself out of a depressive episode is to feel productive. I don’t mean busy work, I mean something that is really a contribution.</p>

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<p>If this were the case, 90% of teens and young adults would be incapable of making a decision. EVERYONE’s parents helped them make decisions. Eventually kids start to take on more and more themselves, and parents gradually back off. It strikes me that guilt-tripping mom is a great way to avoid dealing with his own stuff.</p>

<p>Like Pea, I’ve had these struggles myself. I agree that being engaged and productive is the best antidote. Sometimes it is hard to tease out whether constriction of one’s life is due to depression, or causes depression. One does less and less, one is more and more depressed: it’s a circular trap.</p>

<p>I am curious about his major weight loss: how and when was this accomplished?</p>

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<p>And I am curious about the old friends. Who are they, what role do they/can they play in his emotional recovery, is there a Significant Other? Do these kids have parents who worry that their kids are spending so much time with a kid who is otherwise holed up in his room playing video games? Are any of their parents clued in to what is going with you and the divorce? Do any of them realize that your son has taken an LOA? Are any of them sufficiently neutral but caring enough to have suggested to your S that he get a full medical workup?</p>

<p>I was probably too much of a helicopter mom when my kids were seniors in HS- but I knew their friends, I knew who they were hanging with, I would have not been able to keep my mouth shut if one of their friends had taken time off from school and was basically “hanging out” for months on end. And I have been known to get my kids friends in a quiet moment in my kitchen and ask what the heck is going on when I observe that someone is in a spiraling situation. Whether it’s being stalked by an ex-BF or trouble with a step parent or substances/eating disorders- there are things that a friends parent can do to intervene that you cannot do with your own kid.</p>

<p>A friend of mine (and I’ll give him credit- he’s a therapist) handed one of his kids friends a 3X5 card with several names and phone numbers on it and said, “I will hand you the phone so you can make an appointment with one of these doctors. I will drive you there. I will wait for you outside and then will take you for ice cream. But you must get help.”</p>

<p>think about his friends???</p>

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<p>Be very careful about his friends. They are one of the few things he cares about & you don’t want to make him feel that they are also betraying him, thereby cutting him off from one of his few anchors with reality. I’d talk with the therapist about how to carefully and gently engage them to help him get the care he needs and deserves.</p>

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<p>I’m not suggesting ratting him out to his friends. But surely they’ve noticed that he’s off his game?</p>

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<p>I’m not saying it would be “ratting” out the young man, but HE might see it as such and a betrayal. I’d tread carefully, with advice from whichever therapists I could get to help–the one OP is seeing & the one the S is seeing, if possible. This bond between the S & his friends is very precious & needs to be nurtured as a good tether to help S return to what he can become.</p>

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<p>I approached BFF’s parents-- they said , just let him chill, he shouldn’t have gone to college. They probably don’t get it. Other BFF parents are very close family friends – their dad took some initiative and got involved-- and now S is avoiding their home. This parent (our dear friend) had heart to heart with him to pick himself up and get help and move out of his parents’ home. That was not well received. Third, fourth and fifth good friends-- two are Asian parents – don’t even go there. If they knew, my S wouldn’t even be allowed near them! Fifth friend in this gang of 5 (mind you we’re talking about 2 at Stanford, 2 Cornell and 1 RPI-- so these are very bright young men – all in Science/math/engineering) is less connected to us. They’re actually a bizarre family and I have had reservations for years when he went to their home-- someone has OCD-- the family home is covered floor to ceiling in junk. Mental health radar probably isn’t functioning in that one.<br>
So the actual friends are just kids-- they are all 17 just turned or turning 18. They hear S’s perspective on the situation - -right? Which I guess is less than honest and something along the lines of “my mom hovers on me” and I am just chilling till I go back to school in fall. I doubt he’s been honest with them about the magnitude of the depression and failures at school. In fact, when he goes to their homes or out to do things- he’s clean shaved, showered and himself. He’s perfectly fine around his friends.
So the one parent who reached out – he’s now not engaging with that parent at all.</p>

<p>Second and third level friends (some of these are just high school juniors-- two years younger and perhaps-- just guessing- they are emotionally a safe place to be for my S) – I run into their parents in the local supermarket, the gym, etc. They mention that they saw my S and asked how he liked his first year at school? WHAT?? I’m honest-- what, didn’t my S tell your S-- he took a LOA and has been home since winter. They had no idea - none! So his absence from school was not known beyond his close group. Embarrassed I suppose - but he shouldn’t be-- a gap year would have been fine, had that been what he’d done. Gap year is a productive engagement-- my son hasn’t done that.
I’m like you- I would reach out to kids I’ve known for years if things didn’t look right. But nope-- no one left here.
Some close adult friends he did have last year reached out and he has finally shut them out too - -like his parents, his family, and his therapist. He’s up against the wall - his response can be to get help, get violent, sink further or even suicide.<br>
A dark unhappy place for all of us.</p>

<p>Good thoughts- but the people in his life are running out who could be of help. I had same thoughts-- intervention. Our clergy member reached out too-- got him involved in some volunteer work back in April - that was short lived.</p>

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<p>Therapists can play a valuable role in treating certain emotional and inter-personal problems as well as assisting in treating some neurotic conditions. To me it sounds like your son has a severe psychotic disorder and really needs to be under the care of a psychiatrist. He sounds way too ill to cope with the demands of college or holding down a job. Ultimatums to go back to school or find a job are pointless, he simply lacks the ability to do either one of those things until his symptoms are substantially controlled. While I am an MD, I am not a psychiatrist so can not be certain what his mental illness may be. The normal childhood and the rapid onset of symptoms in adolescence is suggestive of schizophrenia while his behavior is typical of people suffering from personality disorder. These are conditions that can not be cured but under the care of a psychiatrist, who is a medical doctor, he can be treated with controlled substances that might improve his functioning.</p>

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<p>Good suggestion from HImom.
Unfortunately your son has picked you as the enemy so whatever suggestion you make to him no matter how reasonable seems totally invalid to him. Your H (the other logical choice) is clearly no help and so that leaves his friends (or their parents if there is someone you can enlist.)<br>
One more option is a different therapist who may relate to him in a new manner (younger maybe–not a parent role at all). No matter how great the therapist sometimes kids (and adults) just can’t or will refuse to relate. Your son feels he’s not in control of anything right now (and he’s right) and so he picks battles with you, blames you for his problems and refuses help offered. Try again (and again!) by letting him change therapists if he claims he doesn’t llike to talk to them. Maybe someone new will present therapy in a way that allows your son to accept it.<br>
All the suggestions have been good–exercise, hobbies, sunshine and they work well but not necessarily well enough on their own for the person who does need meds.</p>