<p>LOL honestly everyone here says oh if you don't get in a top 14 school don't go to law school. Or you won't get a job at all. Is there anybody on here that has some positive things to say about going to law school???</p>
<p>I’m not in law school, but if you finish first in your class, you may get a pretty decent job.</p>
<p>You won’t have as much debt if you take a large scholarship at a school that is considerably lower than your target schools.</p>
<p>You may get to work in an office setting. </p>
<p>I said three positive things.</p>
<p>The other thing is that if you are within the T14 – particularly at the upper tiers – law school really is a blast. Your classmates are amazing; your professors are great; the material you’re learning is fascinating. It really is a great experience, or at least it has been for me.</p>
<p>The other thing is I’d imagine the same is true if you’re getting major scholarship money at a lower-ranked school – free to take lower-paying jobs (plus probably one of the better students in the class), so much less pressure.</p>
<p>there we go. Keep this thread going.</p>
<p>this sums it up nicely</p>
<p>[Urban</a> Dictionary: College Confidential](<a href=“Urban Dictionary: College Confidential”>Urban Dictionary: College Confidential)</p>
<p>honestly this site is pretty much a joke and is full of people who think that if you don’t graduate from the Ivy League then you will be stuck managing a Burger King restaurant while performing morally questionable favors for spending money</p>
<p>Like the guy above said. Finish top of your class you MIGHT find a DECENT job. That mentality is all you need to know about the goons on this site.</p>
<p>They are embarrassingly out of touch with reality</p>
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<p>… this is a reason NOT to go to law school. Since most law students don’t finish at the top of their class, and “might” is a really bad indicator once you’ve spent $150K+ on your education.</p>
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<p>From what I’ve observed (which is far less than what most of the veterans on here have observed), this, shockingly, is somewhat true. Look over old threads and you’ll see how hard-pressed second tier law school grads are in finding jobs that pay well enough too pay off…
<— This disaster.</p>
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In all fairness the law school sub-section tends to project the opposite view–go for the scholarship and don’t pay for law school at HYS. </p>
<p>Although for the most part CC believes one should take out 250k in loans for UG so they can go to X instead of going full ride at StateU.</p>
<p>@UK 13: I need to cover my @ss a bit because I was called a goon.</p>
<p>What I meant is that you can F-up at your interview and your gpa MAY not save you. Perhaps you decided to wear a lint ridden suit that you bought from goodwill, and you muttered about catfisting or something in between questions. Less extreme examples include but are not limited to a terrible personality, lack of punctuality, age, experience and lack of social skills. As there is more than one way to skin a cat, there is definitely more than one way to f-up an interview.</p>
<p>Also “decent” is not only relative, but it is also sort of neutral and therefore safer than saying “good” or some other positive word. I have been ripped to shreds for such a faux pas on this site, so I assumed it’s better to be safe than sorry. As for decent being relative, there are a lot of elements to consider when you job hunt: How are the hours? The pay? The overall environment? The proximity to your house? Oftentimes there will be costs as well as benefits to a job, resulting in a compromise, sometimes resulting in a job that is not entirely good but not completely bad. Thus, it can be considered decent. </p>
<p>Finally I do not go to an Ivy League school. I go to a mediocre flagship which is ranked 120 or something. Obviously I have no room to be delusional about what reality because I expeience it every day. In fact I even work for minimum at a service job to cover expenses. I would be honored to be accepted into HYS, but those are not the only courses to a successful lifestyle. There are millionaires who didn’t attend college, happy family men who work at Safeway and mothers who forewent college to raise children, but do not regret a single moment of it. In fact more than 99% of Americans did not attend a so-called elite university, and millions are happy members of society.</p>
<p>Sorry for the misunderstanding.</p>
<p>@BDM: You would know better than me, but I’m pretty sure you can get a “decent” job if you finish lower in your class than #1. You hear people talk about how they need to finish in the Xth percentile to get BigLaw for a reason. To the non-risk adverse, the prospect of finishing above the 80th percentile may be a worthwile gamble.</p>
<p>Adam0302, I don’t recall people on this board saying “don’t go to HYS, take the scholarship at a lesser school.” HYS have excellent loan repayment programs, much better than most other schools. They are not going to give you a free ride to their school, but they will offer help discharging the debt if you go into certain areas of the law. *Check out the details at each school. Threre really are many angles to be considered when thinking about whether to go to law school and which one to attend.</p>
<p>Then, to Walteral’s point. Not everyone can go to one of two or three or even fourteen schools. It is true that this economy has been brutal, and especially brutal to those who attend the sub-elite programs. There are large challenges facing aspiring lawyers as well as the folks in many professions. On the other hand, the lawyers I know are happy to be in their careers. And, many of today’s law students will end up happy in their careers, too. I hope that you are a part of that group. Still, I think most people on this board (and others) would urge caution. Proceed with reasonable expectations and not with blinders on.</p>
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Obviously this is true. It depends on what the school in question is, though. At some, Biglaw will only be hiring the select top few. At some, Biglaw will be desperate to hire most of the kids. It varies a lot.</p>
<p>I did advise someone on this board to pass on HLS in favor of a full tuition scholarship at Michigan. Many posters expressed disagreement.</p>
<p>I have long cautioned young people against being too cavalier about taking on large debt burdens.</p>
<p>I graduated from law school during a recession, and took a job very different from what I had envisioned when I entered law school. That job ultimately led to better jobs when the economy recovered.</p>
<p>A quarter century into my career, I have no regrets.</p>
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<p>The problem with the contract positions a lot of graduates end up doing, in addition to the relatively low pay, mindlessness of the work and lack of job security or benefits, is that they don’t lead to anything better (except in rare cases), and will actually get your resume tossed by a lot of employers.</p>
<p>I used to say that the negativity was ridiculous (in fact, I wrote a post about it about two years ago when one of my kids was looking at law schools…). At the time, I strongly believed that there were many jobs in small towns and small cities for graduates from the regional and lower-tier law schools. I also pointed out that there were corporations across America, not just in California cities, Chicago, New York and Boston.</p>
<p>My premise was that if you wanted a big legal market and a big law experience, I agreed that employment prospects were limited. I argued though, that there were other opportunities to have a career practicing law if a student was open-minded. For ex., I argued that insurance defense work or small firm practices in middle-America could offer satisfying professional careers. I remember that many people pointed out to me that the big law market was the only way to pay back crushing loans.</p>
<p>DS is a 2L, and has friends at several law schools that are regional schools. THERE ARE NO JOBS, not even jobs paying $50K or $60K a year. He is surrounded by fellow students who talk about how the economy is improving so they will find jobs when it’s their turn, or that the big firms always take a few people from the top of the class (where of course they all intend to be). There is competition for the unpaid internships and even to volunteer in legal settings. The number of part-time jobs for law students has dried up. Every other person S meets, seems to be in law school or planning to go to law school. S knows several recent graduates who are tending bar or waiting tables, and he is in a top regional school in a mid-sized city. My own Fortune X (a very large corporation outside of the big legal markets) has stopped hiring in any legal positions for years now. I am innundated with desperate resumes every week, and am approached constantly by people who are looking for jobs for their kids, or for other relatives or friends. I understand, since I have tried to network unsuccessfully to help my own kid. </p>
<p>I have been in negotiations with biglaw partners and their associates over the last year. In the course of negotiations, we’ve talked about the legal market. They have uniformly talked about the number of out-of-work lawyers, partners who are losing their partnerships, and associates who are being deferred or cut loose at five years instead of eight years. </p>
<p>I like to think that I have been a voice for reason on CC, but I’m joining the naysayers. I wish my kid had pursued another career.</p>
<p>^Just out of curiousity, do the same naysaying rhetorics hold true for those not seeking the most lucrative biglaw/corporate positions—say, for example, a person seeking to work as a prosecutor (Is the job market for that kind of profession less fierce?)?</p>
<p>^^^^
Its equally as bad in the lower tiers of the market. This is why the tier 2/3/4 schools are being hit harder than ever.</p>
<p>if the job market for the top tier jobs is poor, why would you expect the market for lower tier jobs to be any better? if anything the squeeze at the top will mean fiercer competition below as lawyers with qualifications who would never have considered such jobs compete for them as well. </p>
<p>also, fyi, jobs as prosecutors have often been difficult to get, even prior to the current situation (depends of course on where you are talking about, but you simply can’t assume that government jobs are easy to get in general).</p>
<p>i went to law school about 30 years ago – there were always issues as to what types of jobs those in lower tiered schools could get. but what i find of particular concern these days is simply the cost of law school. i graduated a top law school with little debt – not because my family was wealthy (which it wasn’t), but because the cost, amount of aid i received, and part time and summer employment made it affordable. that simply doesn’t seem to be the case today. i had freedom in making various career decisions that i simply wouldn’t have had if i had to support a huge debt load.</p>
<p>enormous debt load is a reason to seriously think about whether or not to go into law – EVEN IF one thinks one can realistically get a good paying job (how much will debt repayment eat into one’s salary and limit one’s lifestyle options, as well as limit one’s ability to switch jobs - either voluntarily or involuntarily - attrition at top law firms was always high).</p>
<p>also fyi – re your original question as to whether anyone can say something positive about law school – personally, i enjoyed law school. i found it intellectually challenging and interesting. met a lot of great people (also a number of people i didn’t care for 
). but i absolutely hated being a lawyer.</p>
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<p>found this article – almost 2 years old – but fyi –
[Law.com</a> - Public-Sector Hopefuls on Edge as Demand for DA Jobs Explodes](<a href=“Law.com”>Law.com)</p>
<p>Thanks for the information. Your first paragraph, unbelievablem, pretty much answered my question—I was mainly wondering if people who genuinely only want to do biglaw work even bothered to apply for the lower paying jobs if that’s not really the type of work they want to do. Your explanation makes sense.</p>
<p>I don’t think people on this site are being “negative” they’re just being realistic and honest. I don’t see many people making negative comments about law school itself, but rather the debt load required by many to attend law school and the subsequent career prospects for simply paying for that debt–let alone a discussion about return on investment.</p>
<p>Most young people considering law school simply do not understand the financial and lifestyle implications that a six figure plus debt load can carry–and we’re not even talking about any undergrad debt that’s likely still on the books too.</p>
<p>I’d imagine most budding law school prospects haven’t even sat down to look at an amortization schedule/table for such debt–and I’d bet some don’t even know what an amortization schedule is. Furthermore, I’m guessing very few even consider the opportunity cost that such debt incurs in the form of tying up your money in debt repayment vs. some other pursuit. </p>
<p>Take for example a $100k Grad Plus loan (7.9% interest). How much does this loan cost? Taking into consideration the above the answer is somewhere around $1.8 million… yes million. </p>
<p>Why? Well assuming a 20 year payback that Grad Plus loan equates to a monthly payment of $820. If someone, who didn’t take out the loan, contributes that same $820 per month into an employer retirement plan they will (assuming 7% average annual return) have about $440k after the 20 years… and if they never add another dollar to that money again that amount will grow with compound interest to about $1.8 million by the time they retire. Most people don’t think like that, but that’s how money actually works.</p>
<p>Now yes there can be some payback in the form of higher salary from the schooling that the $100k loan funded, but when it comes to law school this is only really true for the top of the top. For the top of the top that investment will have been worthwhile. However, most everyone else comes out entering jobs that pay salaries at, or lower, than what they could have earned had they followed some other path for three years other than law school.</p>
<p>However, despite all of this everyone still goes in thinking they are exceptional and despite all the problems facing the legal profession these problems will just affect someone else. Of course, coming out the other end most of those “exceptional” people find out that they’re not. </p>
<p>I am all for following ones dreams and being ambitious… however following ones dreams also means being willing to accept when things change course. It’s one thing to steer the ship in a different direction and move onto other dreams… but it’s a whole different story when you have a huge anchor of non-dischargable debt dragging behind you every step of the way no matter where else you turn. </p>
<p>If you can attend law school without much debt then these things don’t matter as much. Then the only thing you’re putting on the line is three years of your time and when you’re young time is on your side. However, for the majority of others it’s a much different gamble with potentially far more severe consequences that, unfortunately, most in this category simply do not understand.</p>