<p>Nobody goes around message boards saying how great their law school experience was. People like to complain and/or scare people out as competitors.</p>
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<p>I don’t think this is the right way to look at it. I could say, “Look at it this way: Law school is a leveraged investment,” and I would be just as right.</p>
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<p>ah – but that’s the problem. right now that leveraged investment looks like a really poor investment when the chances of finding a job that will justify the enormous cost of law school and the debt burden incurred is not great.</p>
<p>I’m not negative 
haha</p>
<p>@LSU8888: Keep drinking the Kool Aid.</p>
<p>Despite all the horror stories about law school grads, Suffolk University in Boston, a tier 3 school, reported a 4% increase in applications this past year. This depite a lot of bad publicity about the university in general and its leadership in the Boston media.</p>
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<p>I don’t disagree with that view, but I fail to see your point. Just because it’s a leveraged investment doesn’t mean it’s a good investment.</p>
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<p>A leveraged investment has absolutely nothing to do with a good investment. Don’t forget leveraged investments were a key component in the crash of 1929.</p>
<p>In fact I really don’t see the purpose in even making the claim “law school is a leveraged investment.” Yes, it is. But that’s like saying “I took out 250k in loans for LS, now I’m unemployed.” Yes, you’re right.</p>
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<p>But then again, it doesn’t mean it’s a bad investment, either. And honestly, you can’t just say, “I took out 100K in loans for LS, now I’m unemployed,” because for those who take out the aforementioned loan to attend T14 law schools (the good investment?) <em>usually</em> find well-paying jobs (cetris paribus- yes, even the financial crisis). If taking out 100K was as debilitating as some of you are suggesting, then people simply wouldn’t do it.</p>
<p>I guess you just have to be adequately perceptive in terms of how the market is going and what your options are going to be after you graduate. Sounds like an investment to me.</p>
<p>EDIT: Let’s stick to the 100K figure; I agree that 250k is a bit insane.</p>
<p>To accentuate my point, let’s look at two possible anecdotes.</p>
<p>Student 1: Is considering attending law school but will need 100k in loans. Mr.1 is deservedly admitted to a T14, and the market is looking not too shabby. If I were in Mr.1’s position, I would consider the 100k to be a good investment in my future and would promptly accept the offer.</p>
<p>Student 2: Mr.2 is also considering attending law school, and will also need 100K in loans. Mr.2 is admitted to lower-tier law school, AND the market seems to be in or close to turmoil. Conversely, if I were in Mr.2’s position, I would see this as a very bad investment, and will thus proceed to either change or delay my career choice.</p>
<p>I’m open for criticism; just not the counterproductive, vitriolic type.</p>
<p>Actually, I use this website as a way to put things in perspective. I mean, here everyone is, freaking out about college admissions and all of these other “big deals” that we have no absolute control over… It’s kind of funny to realize how many people worry about it so much. </p>
<p>Aside of that, I use College Confidential to read opinions on certain grad schools and gain advice for the MCATs. As far as pessimism, I don’t see a need for it here.</p>
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<p>If we stuck to the figure of 100k, it wouldn’t be an accurate picture of the cost of LS. 100k might have been a good number to work with 10 years ago, but it has absolutely no significance today.</p>
<p>Aside from the fact that most decent law schools are 40k+ in tuition (that alone would be 120k), you’re forgetting that there are other fees involved–books, HOUSING, LIVING EXPENSES, etc. </p>
<p>NYU-$212,598
[NYU</a> Law - Student Expense Budget: Student Expense Budget](<a href=“http://www.law.nyu.edu/financialaid/budgetandbudgeting/studentexpensebudget/index.htm]NYU”>http://www.law.nyu.edu/financialaid/budgetandbudgeting/studentexpensebudget/index.htm)
Harvard-$210,300
<a href=“http://www.law.harvard.edu/prospective/jd/apply/the-applicationprocess/jdfaq.html#tuition[/url]”>http://www.law.harvard.edu/prospective/jd/apply/the-applicationprocess/jdfaq.html#tuition</a>
Penn-$204,450
[Penn</a> Law - Financing Your Education](<a href=“http://www.law.upenn.edu/prospective/jd/financing.html]Penn”>http://www.law.upenn.edu/prospective/jd/financing.html)</p>
<p>That’s just a random sampling of the T14. This is also assuming that you’re paying cash up front/pay loans off immediately. Once that loan starts accumulating interest, those numbers rise quickly.</p>
<p>This gets progressively worse for those who decided to take loans to go out-of-state for UG instead of going with StateU. This would prevent one from paying loans off quickly, and the interest rates would just add further insult to injury.</p>
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This makes sense in '05-'07 times. This does not make sense in '09-'11+ times. The problem is the market is not there in this economy.</p>
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I believe the correct statement here is that if people knew how debilitating 100K of medium-high interest loans is, then far few people would do it. </p>
<p>I chose $100k since it was a nice round number, but with the annual all-in gross cost of many schools approaching $60-70k per year, $100k is on the very low side. </p>
<p>If we’re talking a more realistic $150k in loans (which is still low considering compounding during the time in school) at 7.9% then the monthly payment for a 20 year amortization balloons to $2300 per month. After 10 years you’ll pay $103,000 in interest and still owe over $100,000 in loan principal (assuming of course you could afford to pay the full $2300 per month from the day after graduation… if not you end up paying far more in interest on your interest).</p>
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<p>As a previous poster said, in the old legal market this might make sense, but that market has long since vanished and most people who know legal aren’t terribly optimistic about it returning anytime in foreseeable future, even if the economy takes off again, due to the deep rooted issues facing the profession. Furthermore, if this student was admitted to T14 they would almost certainly owe far more than $100k when they graduated unless they had very significant sums of cash on hand to pay up front. </p>
<p>Is law school an investment? If you can pay cash for most of the costs and will graduate with manageable loans then yes I think it could be a very good investment. However, if you need to mortgage the rest of your life to do it… well that’s a personal decision, but one which far too many end up making without knowing all the facts and subsequently end up with serious regrets and owing a lot of people a lot of money.</p>
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<p>His figure was the one I disputed. Are there really any T14 schools that would let you take out the full ride in loans??? (This isn’t a rhetorical question)</p>
<p>Alright. So the consensus is: Depends on the market.</p>
<p>I would like to point out one thing. The very top law schools do give financial aid based on need. For most applicants, parental and spousal income will be taken into account in determining elgibility. So, if you really come from a low income household, then you may not have to go into as much debt as these numbers suggest. Once you get below the very top schools, any need is met by loans, not grants and the loan forgiveness programs are non-existent or limited to a small percentage of the class. </p>
<p>However, if your parents just feel–as many do–that law school should be on your dime as they have already paid for college, then you aren’t going to qualify for need based aid in most cases. Then the debt numbers are realistic. </p>
<p>In answer to another question, yes, in most cases you can borrow up to the cost of attendance. Law students are low risk loans–at least if they are US residents. Not only are these loans not dischargeable in bankrupcy but if you stop paying them back you’ll run into problems with the character and fitness committee. In at least two cases recently law school grads who had passed the bar but who had defaulted on their student loans were denied admission to the bar.</p>
<p>The people I feel really sorry for are the folks who get pushed out of law school after 2 years. There is one law school in particular that massages its bar passage rate by kicking out a substantial number of students at the end of second year. Then, the students can’t take the bar and aren’t factored into the percentage of students who pass the bar. This 3rd/4th tiers bar passage rate is pretty impressive unless you compare the number of the graduates with the size of the class that started—and most people don’t. They are left with $100.000 in debt and no chance of every being admitted to the bar.</p>
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<p>the current state of the economy and the number of people in default on their mortgages and overextended on their credit cards disproves this. people borrow more than they can handle. its a sad fact. everyone things they’ll be ok. they want what they want and they borrow more than they can afford to get it. </p>
<p>now throw in the fact that when you are talking about law school, you are talking, for the most part, about students who have been academically successful thus far in their lives – too many think that THEY won’t have the problems that everyone is talking about getting a well paying job to afford the debt. just look at people posting on this forum who don’t want to believe things are as bad as other say. </p>
<p>people make bad choices. the fact that they do doesn’t change the fact that they are bad choices. people can try to be informed to avoid bad decisions. hopefully more people will make better decisions about law school.</p>
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Its unfortunate that you’re wrong. The total amount of consumer debt in the United States is $2.4 trillion. </p>
<p>Go through this if you don’t believe me:
[UPDATED:</a> Share Your Story – Majoring In Debt](<a href=“UPDATED: Share Your Story -- Majoring In Debt | HuffPost College”>UPDATED: Share Your Story -- Majoring In Debt | HuffPost College)</p>
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<p>Jesus.</p>
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<p>Yes, I realize this now. But I think we’re digressing from the our initial discussion. </p>
<p>Is law school rewarding? The answer is simply: Unless you take out more than the state of the economy will allow you to afford, yes.</p>
<p>Any idiot and his mother would understand that it would be a terrible idea to borrow 200k to attend law school when there is a dearth of employment prospects. However, if, say, you attend a good law school and the economy is stable enough for you to assume that you’ll be making 100-150K out of law school, it wouldn’t be such a bad idea to put yourself in 800-2000/month of debt.</p>
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<p>I have a question. Does this mean that families with an EFC (expected family contribution) of close to zero can benefit from listing their children as “dependent”?</p>