I always thought and still think my kid is “average” smart kid (top 5% in his high school with 3.9 GPA and 2 B+s in AP Biology and AP Calculus) and 33 in ACT by studying on his own. He had around 2160 in SAT but somehow made National Merit Finalist by doing well in PSAT – I have no idea how he ended up doing so well in PSAT. In high school, my kid often told me casually (not in a worried manner) that there were many kids in his class who were way smarter than him academically, you know who gets A+s seemingly without trying, whereas my kid got many A-s and narrowly avoided B+s. So, academically, while he was top 5% out of some 500 kids, he was I thought an average smart kid. However, what made him stand out was that he spoke 4 languages due to his life experiences of having lived abroad and has a very good facility for language, and he sought out on his own and participated in several outside school ECs that made him stand out somewhat.
Two very different kids. Oldest is very bright, great student by CC standards and we did the CC thing with applying to top schools, etc. Got accepted, doing well. Very traditional.
Youngest is very bright but in a different way. Not a great student. Not a great test taker (taking the SAT for the 3rd time trying to crack 1250). But she is really quite smart and creative. Her focus is on all things artsy, is an outstanding performing artist, writer, etc. The other day she started a black and white photo blog and already has hundreds of followers with many submitting pictures. Now she’s setting up an artsy website to display (of course doing all of this instead of studying for her finals). We used to get on her about grades, studying, etc. We let it go because that’s just not her. She will go to either a strong performing arts BFA program or our local state U.
Don’t know how she knows how to blog, set up websites, connect with so many people. That’s a certain type of smart. Wonder how you monetize that. She just thinks it’s cool.
There are lots of creative kids that don’t fall in to the classic CC box. There’s a place for them. They actually seem to be quite happy. It’s the regular folks (mostly parents) who have issues with it as we worry about them being self sufficient.
Also, by definition, most people are average. They go to average schools and get average jobs. They get married and have kids and coach little league. That’s called life.
I learn a lot on CC about colleges, timelines, programs, financial aid and scholarships, etc but I’m not here for the tips on how to chase the T20’s and Ivy acceptances either! You’ll find what you need here, lots of helpful posters and great advice! Best of luck to your daughter as she pursues fashion design, I would suggest she look at the DAAP program at University of Cincinnati, its got a phenomenal reputation and while I don’t know the particulars of the program requirements (my kiddo is looking at their neuro and engineering programs though) but it sounds like it could be a great match for her.
^ might consider SCAD as well in Savannah, GA (awesome place). Savannah College of Arts and Design. Design for all kinds of things including fashion.
@HokieMomma24 and @rickle1 thanks guys! Both Cincinnati and SCAD are on her list… I appreciate all the responses! 
If it helps - our son is outrageous (perfect everything, All-State Orchestra, a really good kid, etc.) and with the end-of-year events he’s gotten just about every award. Aside from academic awards he also got recognized with the Semper Fidelis Award and US Marine Corps Scholastic Excellence Award. All 5’s on all 8 AP’s and finishing up the semester with 4 A+'s which may note him as the highest GPA in a very large graduating class.
The good news is that he was rejected everywhere. Literal insanity.
I think I need to clarify…I have nothing against the ivies…I think its great if kids can go there. However, I was just trying to find my community here on CC…I’m good with a non ivy school for my daughter. I was a first generation college student and thrilled to graduate from my instate school…and I’ve had a great life with my degree. I was just trying to find a community within CC- and thankful that I was pointed in the right direction in the class of 2020 parents
@OneMoreKid when you say “everywhere” surely you don’t mean “everywhere”?..your child seems like a great fit for any instate school???
Every year many kids get rejected from everywhere they applied. It’s frustrating to read as a parent. Was it the high school counselor with bad suggestions, not picking enough safeties or not applying to the local state schools?
One advantage to having more average stats is that you can’t consider the top tier schools and therefore won’t be caught up in the competition. I think it makes it easier to consider a school based on how it fits you rather than simply how “prestigious” it is. If there is an unfortunate side to being one of the many “excellent” students who post on CC it’s that they narrow themselves down to such a small portion of the potential universities out there (and compete with each other) overlooking many schools that they could excel at. I understand that the better the grades the better the opportunities for merit aid. That is important and can’t be overlooked. In some ways however, a more average student is more likely to choose schools they have a realistic chance of attending and can go through the process with much less anxiety. Good luck.
As aperson holding three Ivy league degrees, I tell my kids what makes for a good life is a good marriage, strong morals and personal meaning. Literally zero of the best stuff in life comes from your volkege degree. Its a means to an end not the end in itself.
Our Kids win’t be allowed to go to the same schools We went to. They need to find their own path in life and there are literally thousands of schools.
@engineermomof2
My bad. He got into all of his “safety” schools one of which rolled out the red carpet to the extreme. It’s one that’s particularly known for their Engineering programs and he’s been wearing their t-shirt quite a bit lately.
If we had to do it all over again we’d have placed the safeties as the probable destination with the reaches probably not gonna happen, but let’s take a look anyway.
Thanks.
All students and parents should assume that the student’s most probable college is a safety. Reaches by definition are schools where admission will be unlikely for the student. It is also common to overestimate likelihood of admission to what are believed to be matches which are really reaches. But also, be careful about assuming that a college is a safety when it really is not (a common example is failing to consider whether it will be affordable; another common example is a college that is much more competitive for the student’s intended major).
We all feel your pain.
The problem is for most of us, the statistics aren’t tangible. We read them and just hope that they are someone else’s concern. Johnny or Jill is in a different category. For most of us, this is just not accurate.
It’s like thinking we really have any kind of chance to win Powerball, someone has to win, etc.
The best definition of the lottery is a tax on people who can’t do math. Or accept the probabilities.
We only really know our children and it is mind boggling to us that their strengths and qualities aren’t recognized.
That’s the first mistake.
When school admissions pros say these decisions are gut wrenching, I think they really mean it.
The head of Amherst’s admissions said on tape that he’s not really sure why he raises his hands sometimes and other times he doesn’t. It’s not perfect.
So we should just recognize that they make mistakes. Especially when they miss out on our children, many who are real life academic and personal rockstars.
If we can do any service here on these forums, it is to really, I mean really help parents and students to right size expectations. To try and make it tangible.
The decision threads do a good job at that if you read them all.
However most parents just don’t think it applies to us. The bad odds are for the other kids.
So here’s the basic real deal. The recent poster mentioned their son is perfect. I know that was not meant literally but to give us a sense of how strong he was as a candidate.
There are 37000 high schools in USA. If the top two students at each with the 34 to 36 superscored act ( we know this because only 2500 students world wide had the perfect sat and similar numbers for act.). So most are in the range.
If we just take two perfect kids from each school that’s 72000 applicants at the top of heap academically.
We know it actually goes much deeper than that numerically and it’s a much larger pool of candidates.
But let’s say 72000. Plus about 10000 of these perfect applications from overseas.
So this simple sample produces 82000 near perfect academic profiles.
Harvard has about 300 seats per gender for the non hooked, non super rich, non celebrity crowd.
If we assume 600 spots per ivy - for excellent but not hooked as a number to use. Do the math.
Against the 82k number when in fact the universe or pool is multiples of that figure in reality.
I’ve been told there are around 60k spaces for all the colleges in the USA with under a 27% acceptance rate.
There’s not enough room at ALL of these schools combined to house the top two students per school- forget that many schools have 5, 10, and some have 20 or 40 superstars.
It seems with numbers like this it would be wise to not count on “lightening strikes probabilities” to win at this game.
It’s the tried and true advice that a broad selection wins. It also makes sense to take a few shots at the very selective group.
That being said, if it’s the less than 10 percent crowd, it’s not a lightening strike level opportunity. More like a meteor. It should be framed that way.
It’s really just a math equation more than anything else.
(About 34,000 of which are public.)
Be careful with stats about the number of high schools in the US or a state. Many high schools may be continuation schools, reform schools, juvenile hall schools, or other special high schools serving small numbers of lower performing students whose highest college aspiration (if any) is likely to be community college. Note that these are also likely to be the high schools with few or no offerings in advanced/honors/AP/etc. courses.
For example, about a third of California public high schools are of these special types, but only about 3% of California public high school students attend them.
Of course, at the other end of the scale, there are high schools with large numbers of very high performing students, so that the top student in a typical high school may be one of a crowd of dozens in those other high schools.
@ucbalumnus I only used readily available source data as a scoping mechanism to frame it for simplicity purposes.
“Across the United States there are 26,407 public secondary schools and 10,693 private secondary schools. (Digest of Education Statistics, 2001, Table 89)”
Fast facts. And looking at supporting data the number in 2015 was slightly more.
This doesn’t include us citizens living abroad and their schools. Or the full scope of international students and the thousands of high performing home schooled students. Or the growing number of non traditional, military and gap year applicants.
It’s a much bigger, interesting and complex pool of students than my simple example.
But it’s only meant to be directional. And “being careful” doesn’t seem to make sense for a simple example. It’s illustrative.
But even my example grossly understates the sheer number of qualified students. It ignores the reality of preferences in the process, which greatly shrinks the pools available.
Most of us have a frame of reference that is both personal (our school, our child and our localities) and abstract. (The enormity of our country and numbers this large are simply abstractions and for most is an obscure concept.)
It seems easy to digest if not academic journal ready.
76000 Val’s and sals. 60000 seats in very selective schools. Big chunk of those seats being athletes, oligarchs, celebs and preference for income and race. Even accounting for those cohorts overlapping to some degree. It’s daunting.
@engineermomof2 I hear you. My daughter is in a similar place. Her passion is art, and we will likely be focusing on admissions to freestanding art schools for a BFA. I have found that many of the top schools look for a baseline level of academic achievement (which either of our daughters would likely meet) to make sure that the kids can handle the non-art classes and overall workload, and then they focus much more on talent, as demonstrated by the portfolio. There are of course down sides to this approach (e.g. if a kid wants to double major outside art/change majors to a non-art major, or if financial aid offers are insufficient), but it is fascinating to see how different those programs are in terms of what they care about vs. traditional colleges. I recommend that you also check out the boards under “College Majors - Visual Arts and Film Majors,” as some kids/families focused on fashion design post there. Best of luck!