<p>Oddly enough, I probably had the opposite experience when I visited. I was lukewarm at best about washU, but I loved it after the visit. The tour guides were funny and rather nice. The students on campus looked really laid-back, and many of them were very friendly. </p>
<p>I certainly don't recall any overt liberal biases. I saw the painting and I definitely don't remember anything particular offensive. Those get painted over fairly regularly from what I heard.</p>
<p>I think graceandpeace is with all due respect what is commonly referred to as an outlier. Our experience and that of my sophomore son has largely been the exact opposite.</p>
<p>My daughter is a sophomore there. She fell in love with it on her visit and is still very happy there. She was in the substance free dorm and met a whole large contingent of kids who are basically substance-free. About the boys and girls together - I was shocked about this at first too. Not at Wash U. but at another school that we considered. I think this is the way it is nowadays. The boys kept to the boys bathroom and my daughter was never "sexiled" if you know what that means. She has a nice boyfriend now who treats her with respect. I think you and your son should give Wash U another chance especially since you live in St. Louis. Where else have you looked?</p>
<p>Actually, now we live in Peoria, IL.</p>
<p>What is interesting is that I did not show my feelings to my son and was very upbeat recounting all the positive things about the school and he, without my input, said all the things I was thinking about our impression overall.</p>
<p>That's why there are so many schools because everyone is different and different schools appeal to different people. Wash U is a great school with a great reputation and a super-bright student body, it just fell flat during our visit as far as fit for us.</p>
<p>We also looked at Bradley, Missouri S&T, Nebraska-Lincoln, and U Tulsa.</p>
<p>Wash U is definitely a step up from all those schools (depending on the major like Missouri S&T generally has a stronger reputation in engineering than Wash U). </p>
<p>By the way, I don't know what "sexiled" means.</p>
<p>As far as the boys and girls together there are plenty of schools where the dorms are either single sex or the coed dorms are single sex by floor or wing. </p>
<p>I am glad your daughter is in the substance free dorm and enjoys it with lots of friends.
When a university tells me that my son can apply to live in the one substance free dorm, that just tells me volumes about the overall view of things by the administration. Also, the smell of weed as we walked through the one dorm during our visit was overpowering. I guess everything all added up for us in the "against" column.</p>
<p>Again, I know Wash U is a great school. Really, what I tell people is that it is the Ivy of the Midwest.</p>
<p>GraceandPeace- I think you have wrong information. This year there are substance free floors in each dorm-or most of them (freshman dorms only). Also, I think the admissions people are some of the nicest and friendliest of all the school we had visited. The painted area you wrote about was probably advertising sex week which was last week on campus where they had programs all week adressing different subjects related to sex. Also, coed dorms by room are much more the norm these days at all schools, it is probably unusual to have single sex dorms at any school unless its a big state school that has many dorms-There may be New Yorkers on campus, but most of the students are from the midwest and are very down to earth and friendly.</p>
<p>I have to say that I've never heard of any of the schools you're mentioning. Missouri S & T has a stronger reputation in engineering than Wash U? If your son is a national merit scholarship finalist I think the 2 of you should put aside possibly out-of-touch attitudes regarding dorms - dorms have been co-ed for probably 30 years now almost everywhere. Some college kids smoke weed and drink. That doesn't mean that your son will have to do that. I know that Wash U has many kids who aren't partyers. I actually hope that I'm not turning other people off of the school by saying this. But you shouldn't restrict your sites to relatively obscure schools where your son may be surrounded by beer-drinking relatively unintellectual kids. Don't go to Wash U but look at other good schools like Northwestern, University of Chicago, etc. Is he interested in engineering? How about Carnegie-Mellon or Case Western? Case gives good merit based financial aid and we know several kids who are there and really like it.</p>
<p>OK I looked it up. The midrange SAT for Missouri S & T is 1140 - 1350 and the ACT is 25-30. The midrange verbal sat for Wash U is 670-750 and Math is 700 - 780. The midrange ACT is 30 - 33. My daughter is in class with really, really bright people. She also has met lot's of really interesting, bright, intellectual kids. This is an important consideration. You want your son to be with people who are his intellectual equals.</p>
<p>Amazon, as I said before I know Wash U is a good school. I have a little different view of things I guess. Great academics are important, but not king. They are part of a whole package. I am more interested in my son being a man of great character than him being in classes with intellectual equals. That is not the be all, end all. In fact, it is the EXACT attitude that came across during our visit there at Wash U that turned us off. "We are really smart here, don't you want to be one of us? We can all be really smart together."</p>
<p>Yes, Missouri S&T has a stronger engineering reputation than Wash U. especially for undergrads, depending on the discipline. It is not the issue of the score of the kids going in. It is the outcomes, knowledge and work ethic of the kids coming out. I am speaking from the point of view of employers I have worked for and know. I am in the field and especially in materials engineering, geophysical engineering, metallurgical engineering, mining Engineering and petroleum engineering Missouri S&T grads are more sought after than Wash U grads. When I talk to colleagues from other companies as well in those fields they'd rather have grads from Purdue, Georgia Tech, Missouri S&T (formerly UM-Rolla) than Wash U, mostly due to having more real-world understanding and training and having more of a work ethic. I know this is a great generalization, but that is my experience. I know a guy at Caterpiller, high up in engineering there that won't hire from Ivies, including Wash U because of Cat's experience with this issue. They have told Missouri S&T though (until the recent recession) that they will hire all the metallurgical engineers they can produce.</p>
<p>I think many of the Wash U kids being very academic go on to grad school in engineering which is great. Also, pre-med and medical school at Wash U is unmatched and business and the Humanities are super top-notch at Wash U.</p>
<p>Hoff1836 - I didn't say I have a problem with co-ed dorms. I lived in a co-ed dorm, but it had single sex floors, not girls and guys interspersed up and down the hall. It doesn't matter that it has been around for 30 years, I think it is detrimental. Just because something has been "accepted" for the last x number of years doesn't make it good. There are plenty of examples of that we can point to in our economic mess such as NINJ loans and jumbo ARMS, etc. that have gone bad. When I went to refinance 4 years ago to get a lower rate and took out a 30 year fixed to lower our payment, the loan person was flabbergasted that I didn't want an ARM. Who's laughing now?</p>
<p>I have good respect for Case Western Reserve and I know a young man who is going there for biomedical engineering. However, my son does not want to be that far from home.
His criteria is a school that is less than 10 hours drive, less than 10,000 students, not a party school, serious about academics, friendly students and interested (and interesting!) professors and a school willing to give him some serious $$. The schools I listed are not "obscure" but schools we researched and visited. U Tulsa is in the top 100 US News, Top 50 private and made Petersons top 50 best value for private. Bradley is #6 midwest masters, has a respectable engineering program (industrial is ranked 3rd in nation). Nebraska-Lincoln is hardly obscure being that state's main campus and a top 100 school - and an up and comer in Computer Science. However, it is a party school. Missouri S&T - since you don't know much about it - try this link to see what I was talking about before - Missouri</a> University of Science and Technology, Missouri University of Science & Technology The problem is they don't give much $$.</p>
<p>I appreciate your concern, but no worries...my son has no interest in being around a bunch of partiers that aren't interested in learning. My son is a learning machine. It is what he likes. So he was very keen to keep that in mind for the schools we looked at. </p>
<p>It is not that I am shocked that there was weed at Wash U. I know it exists at most colleges along with alcohol. The issue was that it was during a tour of the dorm by university staff along with many parents and prospective students and it was kind of waved off as "kids will be kids". Yikes! Am I the only one that sees some issue here?</p>
<p>Glad to hear there are substance free floors in many or each dorm. This was not the information we were given by the University itself. Sounds like we were given bad info and I am glad you cleared that up for me.</p>
<p>As far as this quote, "Also, coed dorms by room are much more the norm these days at all schools, it is probably unusual to have single sex dorms at any school unless its a big state school that has many dorms". Sorry, just not true. I have already looked at this and maybe this is how it is at the ivies and the ivy wannabes but there are LOTS of schools that are not big state schools that have dorms that aren't coed on the same floor. I know many do have coed floors, but many do not as well. All I was saying is that Wash U is one of those that have coed floors.</p>
<p>It sounds like Wash U is definitely not for you. Just want to clarify for anyone else - the sub-free dorm was actually better than sub-free floors.</p>
<p>"Now to show my total non-PC, there were large LGBT banners on every pole. I mean, let's just shove it down our throats, shall we?"</p>
<p>That line gave me pause. Posters make you uncomfortable? That's not a PC issue, that's a tolerance issue.</p>
<p>btw, almost every school in the nation as some form of 'Substance Free Dorm'
that doesn't mean that substances are accepted by the administration, it just means that the kids who choose to live there have chosen not to use substances. The administration could have all the rules they want, there will still be students who choose to use, they just won't choose to live in a substance free dorm. The substance free dorms aren't about what the administration condones, they are about choosing what type of people you want to surround yourself with.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I agree that co-ed floors are not the norm, and even though I don't have a problem with it, I could see why it would make some people uncomfortable.</p>
<p>Wow. I think Graceandpeace has done the research and is well-informed. We all write about the right "fit" and it looks like that with good research and thought that Wash U is not a real good fit for her son. This is the way it is supposed to work.</p>
<p>Good luck to your son. With his work ethic and your good judgement/guidance I am sure he will do well wherever he is, especially if the place fits him well.</p>
<p>My Dtr is a soph at Wash U and loves it, but not everybody will.</p>
<p>I think you are using all the right tools to pick a good fit. Again: my dtr loves WashU, but I wouldn't try to sway you as you seem to have a very good handle on the process. Good luck, I'm sure he'll do well.</p>
<p>Also have a soph D who loves, loves WashU. I LOVE getting a text or an e-mail where she tells of another incredible classroom experience, a conversation she has had with a student from another country that blows her away, about helping a student or have another student help her on a difficult orgo assignment (yes, she’s premed), about a one on one help session she has with a professor that ends with him recommending her for a research project, about attending an “astounding” lecture or music performance or cultural event (ate her first sushi - yes, we are from the “sticks”), etc. These e-mails and texts often end with the words, ** “Ah, WashU”.** </p>
<p>Those are the reasons my D chose WashU over other schools, even those offering four year free rides. Is every day perfect, no. When things get really tough, the papers and tests are looming, I use to try to give her an out – “Don’t you want to come home and go to StateU for free?” Her answer was always a resounding NO! When she visits with friends at home on school breaks, she is shocked at how elementary the material they are studying is in the same classes she is taking (such chem, orgo, bio, physics, etc.). At WashU she can double major, double minor, take the premed prereqs and STILL graduate in four years. She tutors, volunteers at a large medical center, plays in a couple musical groups, plays a club sport, etc. WashU is a place where she has had to use every bit of her potential to succeed, and that is the way she wanted it. Even tho D was a NMF, 800 CR on SAT, val of her h.s., 33 ACT, she has had to work incredibly hard to do well, but has made the Dean’s List every semester (so far!). </p>
<p>To my D, academics WERE “king”. She wanted to be challenged to the max and she is, daily! As another poster on CC wrote – </p>
<p>
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As I told my son when he faced difficulty in a class or two in his "reach" school: Acing a test is not really a life skill. Refusing to fold under pressure - that is a life skill. Figuring out another route to success when you think you've come upon a brick wall - that is a life skill.
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<p>Graceandpeace – Our D had in her original “criteria” for a school – single sex dorms. In that vain, she applied to and was accepted by Notre Dame. With the “suite style” set up of the majority of WashU’s dorms, having the opposite sex on the same floor has not been an issue for our D (since the restroom is IN the room). I guess what I am saying is that something that she originally thought was a big deal, turned out to be not so much of one.
As I have mentioned on other threads, we visited all of the schools D was admitted two TWICE and had very involved visits. She talked with admission, toured, had private meetings with professors of ANY study area she was interested in, we ate the school food, attended any activity that happened to be going on, etc. To bring up Notre Dame again – our first visit was “heavenly” (pun intended!), the second one, not so much. In fact, the second visit had so many negatives she was complete swayed from considering attending the school. Your son sounds like quite an accomplished young man and I know he will find the school that is the right one for him.</p>
<p>I'm from Peoria too, graceandpeace!</p>
<p>Just wanted to clarify, many, many colleges have substance-free dorms. It's not so much that they approve of illegal substances being used in other dorms- it's that the substance-free dorms have extra rules and whatnot for people who are more worried about alcohol and drugs. </p>
<p>I've heard about Christian (or other groups) residential colleges at certain colleges. This doesn't mean that those people aren't allowed at the other dorms. It just means they've chosen to live together due to similar interests.</p>
<p>What I liked about my visit to washU this summer was that the tour guide told us that the drinking scene was relatively quiet for a college campus. She said she didn't have much trouble staying away from drugs, etc during her time there, and said it was far from overwhelming.</p>
<p>Just wondering... what's the problem with co-ed dorms? I don't see an issue with walking past a guy on my way to the bathroom. Are there problems I should be aware of?</p>
<p>Graceandpeace,</p>
<p>I hope you and your son will find what you're looking for. From my experience with 3 kids at Stanford, Swarthmore and WUSTL, WashU is BY FAR the least stressful, and the least "liberal". </p>
<p>And if you think that having separate-sex floors in any way interferes with kids of opposite sexes sleeping in each other's beds, you are up for a surprise...</p>
<p>By the way, it was recently the "Sex Week" at WashU. Maybe you happened to visit during that week?</p>
<p>If WUSTL makes you that uncomfortable by being "too liberal", you might want to look into some religiously-affiliated colleges...</p>
<p>I found it interesting in the Student Life Sex Issue, that of the approximately 1727 students surveyed during "Sex Week," 37% reported they were still virgins.</p>
<p>My limited knowledge of the substance free floors (one floor in each freshman dorm) is that under the contract you have agreed not to bring/use "substances" while on the floor - you do not have to agree to never use these "substances." <a href="http://reslife.wustl.edu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=130&Itemid=232%5B/url%5D">http://reslife.wustl.edu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=130&Itemid=232</a></p>
<p>The coed by suite seems to work out fine - especially since each suite has its own bath. There certainly are schools where the floor is coed and the bathroom is shared by all (not sure if Wash U has any like that since there's so few traditional style dorms left). To me that would certainly be a big "ick" but it wouldn't be a deal breaker if my D had otherwise loved the school! For others, I also can see how it might be!</p>
<p>To each their own. There may be a lot of happy people here but I know on my floor of at least 5 others who want to leave.</p>
<p>At first I did try to give WashU a chance. I was quite happy to go to a top tier school, I thought a concentration on academics rather than other aspects would be good. I thought a division 3 sports team would be like others...at least having a fair amount of people at their games. I thought the weather would be decent. I expected failures in chemistry. However, I gave WashU chances over and over again, at least 10 times. Everytime WashU dissapointed me or the student body, or some other aspect disappointed me I would think it wasn't going to be so bad. But you can only be so disappointed before you realize that paying 50,000 a year isn't worth going to a school.</p>
<p>I still find premeds tunnel-visioned no matter what one says. Everyone is spending at least 6-9 hours a week outside of class and studying in chemistry, PLTL, etc. Our labs our 4 hours, etc. When I visited another top school, their labs were 2.5 hours and no one was as obsessed with chemistry as people are here. I still absolutely detest the atmosphere and stress and am transferring out fall 2009.</p>
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Our labs our 4 hours, etc. When I visited another top school, their labs were 2.5 hours
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<p>I went to school a long time ago, a top east coast LAC. I was a chemistry major (NOT pre-med).</p>
<p>There was no lab, I repeat, NO LAB, that was anything less than 4 hours. And as you got to the more difficult lab classes (something pre-meds admittedly rarely took), the labs could take all day. And you still couldn't finish them. You'd have to come back the next day and start over (to be more efficient) or try to patch things together enough so that it looked like you knew what you were doing.</p>
<p>Chem labs are difficult, very difficult, extremely difficult. If you know of a top school where chem labs are only 2.5 hours (and I'm not talking intro chem where you stick the litmus paper into a solution and write up "it's an acid" -- DONE) you're getting gypped by that so-called top school.</p>
<p>Just like days are 24 hours long, chem labs take a minimum of 4 hours. You can't fight city hall.</p>
<p>Just to let you know, pre med courses are hard anywhere. If you feel like transferring will make you happier, definitely go for it. But don't expect it to make premed courses suddenly a cake walk.</p>
<p>Wash U chemistry is hard, but they make the course hard on purpose in order to make the curve more equitable. About 30 percent of the class gets As.</p>