<p>S finally made the calls last week. He had to turn down a couple of places and had to talk to Berklee about deferring until Fall 2014. He will reaudition for more scholarship AND try to find outside sources (scholarships, grants, loans). Berklee told him he was free to audition next year at other places as well, so we are considering doing this, just to see if anyone gives him enough $ to change his mind.
So questions: Is this considered a gap year? He fully intends to go to Berklee, so I don't know if we should even apply/audition anywhere else. Would it be worth it? In one way, I think applying at some places might be smart. To me, they are also a good fit for him. Specifically: Thornton/USC, The New School for Jazz/contemporary music, and possibly Denver again (they said they would keep his application and reactivate if we wanted). I also wondered if some of the places we didn't even consider this year we should put back into play. Compmom had at one point suggested Bennington, and I have to admit studying with Frederick Hand seems tempting!
The other big question is financial..... I didn't know that there was a cap on loans. S said he didn't mind at all going into debt for Berklee. But only for Berklee. Now we find that he couldn't even borrow enough to go. Of course, we didn't talk directly to the financial aid office, but I did research and read up on the cap. Can anyone tell me how he would go about getting student loans above the fed. cap? His dad and I will be of no help in this. Long story, but I have massive health bills from leukemia, etc and we would never be able to get a loan ourselves. I know there must be a way of doing it 'cause I see so many young adults who complain about huge student loans. How can they get "huge" loans if the cap is 5000 a year?</p>
<p>My daughter also applied for schools this year. Since she is graduating one year early, we also contemplated waiting until she is a senior age-wise to go to conservatory, applying to other schools, etc. But she got a good scholarship at her #1 choice, so she is going in the fall.</p>
<p>I would definitely have your son apply to other schools, and hopefully be offered some substantial scholarships. From what I’ve read here on CC, Berklee is one of those schools that does not offer many substantial scholarships. I strongly recommend that your son NOT take out big loans for the undergraduate degree, even if he can get them. If I’m correct about Berklee (others on here will know more), even if your son practices a lot this year and improves, he likely will not get enough of a scholarship to make up the difference if there is a cap of $5,000 for a loan.</p>
<p>My daughter was offered admission at one of the “top” classical music schools that is known for offering few scholarships. They offered her only $15,000 a year, which was not enough to send her to school without loans–so we told her she couldn’t go. She was the top student admitted on her instrument too. But some schools are like that.</p>
<p>Have him apply to at least one state school next fall, and some other schools where he likes the teacher.</p>
<p>I don’t think the student loan cap is $5,000. I believe that most large loans for undergrad go through the parents. Again, others will know more than I do. We won’t take any loans out or allow our daughter to.</p>
<p>shellybean, you need to get familair with this webs site [Resources</a> | Federal Student Aid](<a href=“http://studentaid.ed.gov/resources]Resources”>http://studentaid.ed.gov/resources). Did you check out the financial aid pages for Berkelee? [Types</a> of Financial Aid | Berklee College of Music](<a href=“http://www.berklee.edu/financial-aid/types-aid.html]Types”>http://www.berklee.edu/financial-aid/types-aid.html).</p>
<p>There is a cascading of grants and loans. Direct (student)Subsidized Stafford loans, Perkins loans (students), Direct(student) unsubsidized Stafford loans, plus loans (parents) and then private loans. The Stafford loans are capped each year, the first year around $5500 for undergrads. People get in trouble because they also get plus loans and or private loans and then go on and get grad loans which have much higher caps. </p>
<p>Does not seem fair, need to be rich to go but he should check other resources since he still may not get a really large scholarship next year either, compared to the cost of attendance at Berkelee. </p>
<p>Yes, this would be considered a gap year. He is not going to school. What if they do not change their offer next year, or the offer still falls short? If he applies to other places he might be able to leverage any scholarships he gets from them to get more form Berkelee. I don’t know how receptive they are to negotiations but it does seem to be the norm to show if there are higher offers from other comparable programs to seek more $$. And if they do not give a sufficient award, he needs a backup.</p>
<p>Remind us why he is so intent on Berklee? It was my son’s first choice too, but when we explained to him the financial ramifications of going into major debt, he realized at it was not realistic. He deferred, and went to the Hartt School, and he is so happy there he decided not to re-audition for Berklee. </p>
<p>He should be looking at a bunch of other schools this year. There have to be other places that would fit the bill that are not as expensive as Berklee. We looked at the following in addition to Berklee:</p>
<p>Hartt/University of Hartford
University of Miami
Willam Patterson
Suny Purchase
College of St. Rose
U Mass Amherst</p>
<p>He did not apply to William Patterson because he did not like the campus.</p>
<p>I wanted him to look at the following, but he would not:</p>
<p>Belmont
Middle Tennesse State University
University of North Texas</p>
<p>He also thought about, but did not look at:</p>
<p>University of Texas, Austin
CCNY</p>
<p>The semantics of whether this is a gap year or a deferred admission doesn’t matter much…with Berklee, do you lose anything if he choses not to actually enter next year?</p>
<p>I can understand your son wanting to go to Berklee, it being his dream school, but it sounds like financially there is no way to do it this year or next year without loans, and I agree with others, try not to go into debt, music is a perilous place. I am sorry that Berklee doesn’t offer much aid even with something like your situation, where you have medical bills and such. Did he try appealing the aid request? Sometimes with the help of a teacher, amounts can be increased, but I also know pretty much zero about Berklee.</p>
<p>I have to agree with others, he may love Berklee, but if another top program admits him and offers him solid aid, I would strongly recommend that. Music is incredibly expensive, it is ironic that something that is so financially chancy as a career costs this much, as I know only too well. I was fortunate, our family circumstances allow paying the big bills, but if we couldn’t I would have encouraged my son to go with something more financially doable with a good teacher…</p>
<p>The other thing is he may be able to if he has good offers from other place negotiate with Berklee, but if they didn’t give you good aid given your particular circumstances, I wonder how/if that would work, but you never know.</p>
<p>You might want to look into SUNY Purchase as a financial safety. They have reasonable tuition both in and out of state and a good Jazz faculty.</p>
<p>Hi – thanks.
I know the chances of a huge jump in money from Berklee are small, but there are a couple of things in his favor. One is, the audition @ B. from this past Dec. was his first ever anywhere for anything. He had performed in public at huge gigs, but he had never auditioned anywhere. He also had never sight read anything – he did well, but…and then he had some major problems (glasses falling off onto his guitar neck in the middle of sight reading! lol) and the auditioners forgot to even do the improv which is his strongest skill. Anyway, by the time Denver came around, he knew what to expect and got a very very nice scholarship from them.
He has also (partially because of his auditions at Denver and Five Towns, etc) really improved. I thought he was good, but the intense jazz study and the compositions, etc have truly pushed him and he has definitely grown and gotten so much better.
Anyway, we are also exploring outside $ and taking the time to do his Berklee audition there instead of regional. I don’t expect it to close the gap completely, but I do think it will get him much closer.
He very much does not want to do a state school. He figures if this Berklee thing (or one of the other places on his list) doesn’t work, he’ll simply start working. He doesn’t want any debt for a state or school that he feels wouldn’t get him jobs. His opinion is that Berklee is the best for networking and being closest to doing what he wants to do, which is session guitar work and recording for himself and others. I suggested Catawba to him because they are “partners” with Berklee, Belmont, etc in the popular music something-or-other national committee thingy… but he didn’t feel they are in a position to help him long-term.
I don’t know that I always agree with him, but he usually has good instincts for this – better than I have had, anyway. And like I say, he doesn’t mind the debt for Berklee because he feels the job connections there would be worth it, while they wouldn’t be for some other places.</p>
<p>I have to admit I know very little about financial aid, but I have never heard of a 5k cap. And are you positive you can’t apply for Parent Plus loans, even with the medical history? Not saying you SHOULD take out loans - just questioning the “cap.” It seems I hear of students/families borrowing more than 5K all the time. (I also remember my son’s package from another school - where applying for FA was mandatory to be considered for merit - was ALL loans. But it covered the entire amount.)</p>
<p>As far as Thornton, know that their music merit scholarships are next to null. I think my son got the most they give, and trust me, it was peanuts. That said, the scholarship money at USC is academic merit $, and it goes to those musicians with great grades/stats. They are, however, known for being very generous with financial aid.</p>
<p>My son is also a guitarist, and I believe the connections you speak of are quite important in that world. USC so far is clearly an amazing place to make connections - my son is already doing things we didn’t imagine he’d be doing until after graduation (then again - this isn’t happening for everyone). I suspect Berklee may be similar, but I also have heard there are, in essence, two Berklees - one for the scholarship kids and one for everyone else. Others here can correct me if that isn’t true. But if it is… this may factor into the “connection” advantage of going into debt to attend.</p>
<p>Not even two cents, but it’s what I’ve got!</p>
<p>One more thing. Your son can request scholarship reconsideration from Berklee where he can send them any new performances he may have, and they will take a look. At least that was the case a few years ago. But perhaps he’s already done that?</p>
<p>I wonder if it would make any sense for him to do the 5 week at Berklee this summer? He’d get more practice at sight reading, etc, and they have opportunities to audition for scholarships while you are there. That said, it’s not cheap.</p>
<p>Thanks jazz/shreddermom and electricbassmom.
I believe he spoke with his admissions person about submitting any new works. He was on tv here not long ago and has a good recording for that, among other things.
As far as the 5 week… wish we could afford it. The sight reading is no longer a problem (he took to that like a fish to water! lol) but I know he’d not only learn a lot but also make great connections.
The cap is still a sticking point… from what I understand, the cap is for the govt. program loans. Private loans don’t have a cap, but are more difficult to get (or at least it seems that way).
We’ve actually started to send off resumes in hopes of moving to Boston so S could live at home. That would save a bunch of money. Yes, we are crazy.</p>
<p>Shellybean, </p>
<p>If your S is set on attending Berklee then it will serve him well to take as many general education classes as he can prior to entering Berklee. It will save you lots of money!! Berklee clearly spells out how many credits and what classes you can transfer. You can only do this before matriculation at Berklee. This advice was given to us by folks at Berklee because they know it is costly to attend and that to maximize your Berklee experience you need to immerse yourself in the music classes. </p>
<p>You are correct that the limit to a student’s Federal Student Loan borrowing is $5500 for the first year. The number goes up each year after for a total indebtedness cap of $31000 over 4 years. If the parent is unable to qualify for a PLUS loan, the student is eligible to borrow about $25000 more over 4 years. None of it is enough to cover tuition and room and board at Berklee. The loans also allow only a portion to be subsidised funds that have a lower interest rate and a grace period. The rest of the money is unsubsidized and the higher interest accrues right away.</p>
<p>I hope your son considers many options to try to achieve his goals. Take core classes, keep playing his guitar, audition again, look at more schools with an open mind. Best of luck!!</p>
<p>BTW, Berklee is also offering some free online classes through Coursera.</p>
<p><a href=“https://www.coursera.org/course/improvisation[/url]”>https://www.coursera.org/course/improvisation</a></p>
<p>I was skeptical about online courses, but I took one (partly as a joke) in a class that I had actually failed in college. Much to my surprise, and perhaps age helps, I am mastering and learning the material. Online classes might help your son place out of classes at Berklee.</p>
<p>So sorry about the financial stress. I would listen to ElectricBassMom’s suggestion. Students often buy into their “fantasy” school and feel like it is the only way to get to where they want to go. But a school like Haart will also provide strong connections and a comparable education. Some might even say it is better because your son will get more personalized attention.</p>
<p>Please run the calculations to see what the loan payments would look like for $100,000+ in loans. Son has a friend with $700/month loan repayment because he went to his dream school. It is crippling the young man financially. Don’t discount the other schools that are affordable. He will still make connections at any school he attends and son has many friends from his state school who are in dream grad schools and getting major gigs. Most of the students at son’s state school are there because of finances and were accepted at “better” schools but chose the more affordable option.</p>
<p>While his dream may be Berklee, he needs to apply to a financial safety school; a school that he can afford to attend and at which he would be happy. Maybe after a year, Berklee may give him enough money so he can attend. But he also needs to plan otherwise as well. He will have to network no matter where he goes. Even at Berklee or USC or NEC for that amtter, nothing is simply handed to you.</p>
<p>StacJip, I’m taking a coursera course right now, both as a self-improvement project, and to learn more about MOOCs. (My course, which is pretty much out of my comfort zone is:
<a href=“https://class.coursera.org/design-002/class/index[/url]”>https://class.coursera.org/design-002/class/index</a> – in case anyone is interested. But there are dozens to choose from.) I’m finding it manageable and challenging. </p>
<p>Two of my kids graduated from a cyber high school, so I’ve been thinking on this subject lately-- [Virtual</a> shout-out for cyber schools - Philly.com](<a href=“Inquirer.com: Philadelphia local news, sports, jobs, cars, homes”>Inquirer.com: Philadelphia local news, sports, jobs, cars, homes) is an article I published recently. Of course taking online courses is not nearly as ideal as being there in person, but during a gap year, I think it’s great option to supplement whatever else he will be doing. </p>
<p>I also agree with Momofbassist and Compdad, that he should look into financial safeties during this year off. There are many roads to success and happiness, and relative freedom from debt would allow your son many more options as he begins his career.</p>
<p>There are a number of good jazz programs out there, and it may be wise to broaden the net. Both MSM and The New School in NYC have strong jazz programs and they may be better with aid then Berklee, there is also Frost at U of Miami. I don’t know anything specific about the programs or aid, but you never know, and with MSM and New School being in NYC means being able to network and also get gigs and such, because of the Jazz scene there. I am sure he has reasons for wanting to go to Berklee, but also people I know who have gone there said it was a great school, but there are other ones, too:)</p>
<p>There are subsidized and unsubsidized federal student loans. There are also federal PLUS loans for parents (and independent grad students). The subsidized student loans and the PLUS parent loans are not at particularly favorable interest rates (6.8% for the student loans). They’re not, imo, particularly good deals. What makes the subsidized federal student loans “good” is that the federal government is willing to lend money to your non-earning, no-track-record student in the first place, that the interest rate is lower than any other signature loan s/he might possibly be able to find (it’s unlikely he or she could find any other options in the first place), AND that the student doesn’t have to pay the money back until s/he’s out of grad school (or out of undergrad, if no grad school). Those are good things … but, these loans are still not cheap!</p>
<p>If you and your husband are able to obtain PLUS loans (I’m guessing you are based on the “cap” you were talking about in your previous post), then your son is eligible to borrow, from the federal government, in the form of unsubsidized student loans, $5500 in his first year, $6500 in his second year, and $7500 in his third and fourth years of his undergraduate education. The average national student debt for undergrads is around $27,000. And, “coincidentally,” that’s the total of the four years I just spelled out for you!</p>
<p>If you and your husband are Unable to obtain PLUS loans, your son will be eligible for much more in the way of unsubsidized and/or subsidized student loans. </p>
<p>Nevertheless, imo, these loans are not a good idea if you can at all avoid them. (Or, I should say, NO loans are a good idea if you can at all avoid them. If your student HAS to take out loans to go to school, these federal student loans are probably going to be the best idea available to him.)</p>
<p>You said this:
</p>
<p>I’m not sure the two of you are fully aware of what’s out there and how it can work for you. There are state schools that will provide full or nearly-full tuition scholarships. So, he doesn’t necessarily have to take out debt to attend a state school. AND the people at state schools CAN have important contacts. He CAN get jobs out of a state school. As you know, he’ll have to pick a state school that specializes in what he wants to specialize in … and then, voila, if he’s good, he WILL have opportunities. Scholarships, contacts, job leads. Is your son assuming that ALL of the professors and staff at ALL state schools in his specialty are non-connected losers? You might point out that he’s being a little short-sighted.</p>
<p>You also said this:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The fact that your son “doesn’t mind the debt” for Berklee doesn’t surprise me, simply because he’s YOUNG. I suspect that (a) he may have an inflated sense of what Berklee can do for him, and (b) he likely doesn’t understand the big pressures of big debt and what it will feel like to live under that debt as a young, working artist (and I’m being generous with that – he may well be a non-working artist – it happens!).</p>
<p>You mentioned that he has better instincts than you. I would bet anything that you know better than him what it’s like to live with debt. In my maybe-not-so-humble opinion, you need to impress upon him that he should do everything possible to avoid college debt!</p>
<p>A friend recently put the college debt thing quite succinctly for me. For every $10K in debt, your student will pay about $100 per month to pay off his loans based on the standard 10 year payoff plan. $30K in debt (roughly the national average) = $300/month. Go much over that, and you can see how additional student debt can easily add up to about a monthly rent payment! Yikes! It’s stifling. </p>
<p>And so, I encourage you to encourage your son to look elsewhere.</p>
<p>Yes, it looks like this is, indeed, a gap year for him. My son almost took one as well, since he was likewise unable to afford his favorite schools without additional debt. Thankfully, he “settled” on a state school that offered him big money – which equals no more student debt! I use the term “settled” loosely. He is thrilled with his new state university! It was not originally on his radar because he was too focused on the most prestigious schools in his field. But it’s an excellent school!</p>
<p>Best of luck to both of you! I know it’s not easy finding just the right school at just the right price.</p>
<p>SimpleLife speaks wisely. As I’m sure both you and your son know, there are scores (to put it gently) of guitarists out there looking for “session work,” and as my son has reminded me more times than I care to remember, many of the “regulars” in LA, one of the recording capitals, don’t even have college degrees. Possibly even most. Skill level, personal networking and geographic location, are just as, if not more important than the school. Although obviously the school plays in to the last two.</p>
<p>One of the great things my son has gotten out of Thornton’s program, and something your son might consider (if he isn’t already) while deciding where else to apply, is that he’s become SO much more than just a great guitarist. He’s honed his recording/mixing/producing/MD skills to a point we sure didn’t see coming, and his professors are convinced this is where his future lies. Who knows if they’re right. But my point is… he’s added some “crayons” to his coloring box that he surely wouldn’t have if he weren’t in a college program. At least I don’t think he would have.</p>
<p>I agree with jazz/shreddermom…you need MORE. Read this article about the tough times for session musicians :
[url=<a href=“http://blog.riverbed.com/2013/04/what-it-people-can-learn-from-the-plight-of-session-musicians.html]What”>http://blog.riverbed.com/2013/04/what-it-people-can-learn-from-the-plight-of-session-musicians.html]What</a> IT people can learn from the plight of session musicians (The Riverbed Blog)<a href=“an%20older%20article,%20but%20still%20relevent”>/url</a></p>
<p>I wonder that anyone would suggest to your son that a guitarist coming out of ANY program can carry that sort of debt by getting session work right out of school. I know a lot of people in the recording industry here in LA. Things are pretty lean right now. Like shreddermom suggests, load up the crayola box.</p>