Is this possible with ED decision that one can back out?

Parents Forum
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<p>
[quote]
When you sign a contract for ED and are accepted, ...the college ... can release you from said contract. ... Even when a situation like that occurs, it is a tremendous amount of trouble to get out of the contract.

[/quote]
From first-hand experience, I know this to be true. Yes, you can get out of an ED acceptance. At SOME schools. In SOME circumstances. With MUCH trouble. And with GREAT risk. You risk:[ul][<em>]your acceptances to other schools. Some schools have agreements with each other (one was noted above) and schools in these pacts will notify each other and you will, in effect, be "blackballed."[</em>]your relationship with your GC. Our hs has a policy that if you renege on your ED acceptance, the Guidance Department will provide no further assistance in your college application process. [li]your high school's relationship with the college in question and (possibly) related colleges, jeopardizing other current and future applicants from your high school.[/ul] If you feel you have a reason to back away from your ED acceptance, your first step, imo, should be to discuss this with your GC. IF you have your GC's backing, you probably have a very valid reason and MAY be able to do it. The GC will have to work very hard to prevent the negative fallout for your high school, but may do so if s/he supports your perspective on the situation.</p>[/li]
<p>Bottom line: you do NOT want to be in this position. If you are not DEAD SURE that the school is your first choice and that you can live with whatever method they choose to meet your EFC, you should NOT apply ED.</p>

<p>ED is currently heavily overused, imo. Opinions like the one newparent brings to our attention in this thread, that seem to imply you can readily ditch your ED acceptance, are dangerous.</p>

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<p>


I believe that statement is a little misleading? You can apply RD to other schools and you can apply RD to Brown if you are deferred (well, they automatically mark your app for reconsideration in the RD round). You CANNOT apply RD to Brown if you are REJECTED in the ED round.</p>

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<p>Early Decision is reserved for applicants who have not applied to any other Early Decision or Early Action programs (Ivy League or non-Ivy League institutions).Brown reserves the right to withdraw the applications of Early Decision applicants who do so. You may, however, apply to other colleges at any time under their respective Regular Admission programs.</p>

<p>YOur right I should have clarified- but I thought the quote made it clear that I was talking about Brown- some schools will allow you to apply EA even if you apply ED to their school.
applying to Brown ED- can't apply to any other school EA, but can apply to other schools regular</p>

<p>Don't get into Brown ED?
Cant apply to Brown regular decision
If you are denied admission under Early Decision, you may not reapply for admission under the Regular Admission plan.</p>

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<p>Among some schools, adcoms are known to circulate lists of ED acceptees, so the poor applicant will never know why he did not get into other places. Worse, I believe breaking an ED commitment (please don't call it a contract, it is not) is probably grounds for revoking admission at some schools. </p>

<p>So, what are the risks? Depends on the ED school and the new school. And WE will never know, as adcoms do not discuss stuff like this. </p>

<p>Emeraldkity4, U chicago is EA, not ED, so it is not binding.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Worse, I believe breaking an ED commitment (please don't call it a contract, it is not) is probably grounds for revoking admission at some schools.

[/quote]
Agreed. I have known of Admissions Officers who have threatened to attempt to determine where else you were accepted and call them to have your admission revoked.</p>

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<p>thanks newmassdad-
I just knew that D had a lot of friends that found out early they were attending Uchicago
I hadn't at the time, even really heard of EA or ED or the differences.</p>

<p>( some schools also refer to the ED "commitment" as an ED contract- Wesleyan for example)</p>

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<p>So does Brown allow rolling admission apps? I would assume the "no EA" is aimed directly at the Univ of Chicago (although those 2 seem a little dissimilar, don't they?). I'm sorry, but if my child was applying to Brown, I would send in the rolling admission/"early consideration" apps in to his safety schools, I don't think the univ of Alabama is quite who they have in mind when those rules are developed.</p>

<p>How about this - make ED only for people who expect no FA, and are prepared to pay full price, then limit the number of students taken EA - wouldn't that make the financing more transparent??? I'm only partially being sarcastic!</p>

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<p>Why isn't it a contract? The ones I see look like a set of terms offered by the college that you accept if you apply ED, and for which there is certainly consideration if in fact the college reviews the application on an expedited basis. That says "contract" to me. It doesn't matter that no one would award specific performance against a student if he or she breaches, or that it would be tough for a college to prove definite money damages, so that judicial enforcement of the contract would be difficult. </p>

<p>(I have heard of one kid getting out of ED, and it related to a parent's sudden Stage 3 cancer diagnosis. It's not something to play games with at all, and it's stupid to think about it. I think all of this stems from some slightly vague language in the Penn information that essentially says "you must acknowledge your acceptance within two weeks" but could be read as saying that you have a decision to make. You do have a decision to make, but it's not accept or reject the college without consequences, it's accept the college or reject it with serious, pre-agreed consequences.)</p>

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<p>Yes Brown anti-EA policy is aimed squarely at Chicago and MIT. There is plenty of overlap in interest. Some ED programs permit simultaneous EA applications to Chicago and MIT (e.g., Columbia), as long as it's clear you will attend the ED school if accepted.</p>

<p>Georgetown has an EA program which is not single-choice, but which precludes any simultaneous ED application (so Chicago & MIT are OK, but not Columbia).</p>

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<p>jmmom, you may be the only person on this board that really knows about ED. </p>

<p>Other posters give their opinions like they are facts. You better not apply Ed. If you don't accept your acceptance the boogie man is going to come and take your second born cat away from you. The colleges get to decide if you can afford the school (bull*<strong><em>). The colleges get to decide, if the death in the family, the medical condition, your depression is enough of a reason to decline ed (bull</em></strong>*).</p>

<p>I read about threats, and ethics, and blah blah, but which schools have really gone the extra mile and said to other schools, "This student reneged. Don't take him/her. The kid's family can afford it. Auntie June isn't really that sick."?</p>

<p>jmmom, you wrote, "Agreed. I have known of Admissions Officers who have threatened to attempt to determine where else you were accepted and call them to have your admission revoked."</p>

<p>Which admission officers have gone beyond threats?</p>

31

<p>I understand that the Ivy League colleges have a common policy regarding ED which can be enforced. But what about other colleges including many fine ones like MIT, JHU, Stanford, CalTech, et al? Can they also enforce an ED decision? </p>

<p>Another issue which has not been discussed is the impact on a student's HS guidence office if an ED acceptance committment is not fulfilled. It means that the guidence office did not insist that all other applications be withdrawn and in fact colluded with the student by providing the RD colleges with midterm grade reports. I would think that this would hurt future applicants from this high school, perhaps to the point of blackballing future ED applicants.</p>

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<p>dstark: Which admissions officers have HAD to go beyond threats? Have had to go as far as threats?</p>

<p>Or, more to the point, who do you know who has tried to game the system by keeping other applications alive after an ED acceptance?</p>

<p>I agree, by the way, that it's not completely one-sided, and that at the end of the day a college is unlikely to go to the mat over just how sick Auntie June is. But there had better be an Auntie June, and she had better be sick. Doing something like trying to accept a sizable merit award elsewhere without a significant change in financial situation that the ED school declined to address could have serious, serious consequences. The ED adcomm wouldn't have to "find out where else you've been accepted". He or she would have to call your high school, explain the situation, raise a character issue, and ask that it be investigated. That would start the ball rolling just fine.</p>

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<p>"Or, more to the point, who do you know who has tried to game the system by keeping other applications alive after an ED acceptance?"</p>

<p>No. That is not more to the point. You changed the point.</p>

<p>Which admission officers have gone beyond threats?</p>

<p>I keep reading about threats. Which admission officers have taken actions? And who has taken actions when there has been a dispute about money? Who has taken actions when the student's circumstances have changed?</p>

<p>This should be easy. Who has a kid that has been hurt because somebody else reneged on ed?</p>

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<p>**1 and 2 are not true. You can get out if you don't like the financial offering. </p>

<p>As for 3., since you wrote it, tell me which schools tell students they have to matriculate after the students say their families can't afford it. **</p>

<p>Dstark, I know your love for te road less traveled, but this one is not going where you think it takes you. </p>

<p>For the record, 1 and 2 ARE absolutely true. The ED is a binding contract and the parents cannot use an "inequate" financial package to reject--or delay--a package in December and apply to all RD schools. It is the school not the family that determines the demonstrated need. This does not contradict that the FINAL decision to attend or not is the family's. Again, nobody can force you to attend a school if you cannot afford it. However, that does not make the release unconditional. Would Columbia release you to apply RD to Cornell? or Harvard? or CUNY? Odds are ... see below.</p>

<p>Upon acceptance, you are supposed to withdraw all other application and start no new ones. </p>

<p>For number 3, check the board of Columbia or search the prior threads where
the same doubting Thomas baloney was introduced. </p>

<p>
[quote]
"Those who do opt out of their Early Decision contract are released to pursue lower-cost school options, such as state schools and/or schools that award merit aid. The admission offer to Columbia is then cancelled. A candidate who withdraws from Columbia’s Early Decision offer will not be allowed to reconsider Columbia’s financial aid estimate in the spring Regular Decision cycle, and will not be able to reinstate the original offer of admission."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And as far, as offering misinformation, some of us prefer to listen to old tales and anecdotal accounts while prefer to stick to the facts. The bottom line is that one should not use ED for the sole purpose of gaming the admission odds;</p>

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<p>Xiggi, you're wrong. I posted Columbia's policy over a year ago.</p>

<p>You're wrong and extremely unhelpful.</p>

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<p>JHS - Unless you have specific experience to back up the scenario in your post #32, I can tell you from first-hand experience that you know not what you speak. I agree with dstark that "other people are giving opinions like they are facts": many people are posting here with their beliefs about ED commitments. While I agree wholeheartedly with all who emphasize the COMMITMENT, who warn against gaming the system, who do not even like to see people asking about whether you can get out of the ED commitment, I can say here that if you do not have first-hand experience and have not researched this fully, you cannot and should not be telling someone what will happen if they decide to try to get out of an ED commitment.</p>

<p>dstark - while I know first-hand of an admissions officer threatening to contact another school, I do not know of any who have done so. This particular admissions officer decided against that approach, based on a full discussion of the situation and extensive discussions with the hs GC in question.</p>

<p>Whether and how often it has actually been done, I do not know.</p>

<p>If the statistic someone quoted that 17% of ED acceptees do not matriculate (I do not know the source or validity of that statistic), that would indicate, ipso facto, that one CAN undo an ED commitment.</p>

<p>Not that one should. ONE SHOULDN'T EVEN BE ASKING THE QUESTION. I am one of the loudest voices here on cc trying to divert kids away from ED. Not that it isn't appropriate for some kids. But it is often easy to see that it is NOT appropriate for many who are considering it and asking questions which make that obvious.</p>

<p>But the folks here saying that you cannot get out of an ED commitment based on finances, IF YOU TRY after acceptance, need to either cite the specific experience or source for this information. Or realize that they do not know the answer to the question. They know how it <em>should</em> work, how the colleges want it to work. But they do not know how it <em>does</em> work.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I understand that the Ivy League colleges have a common policy regarding ED which can be enforced. But what about other colleges including many fine ones like MIT, JHU, Stanford, CalTech, et al? Can they also enforce an ED decision? </p>

<p>Another issue which has not been discussed is the impact on a student's HS guidence office if an ED acceptance committment is not fulfilled

[/quote]
</p>

<ol>
<li> Yes, other colleges have similar agreements among themselves re ED. There is a group of southern colleges (I think it includes Rice, Emory... similar-type schools) and there are others. I would have to hunt for the lists.</li>
<li> Can they "enforce" an ED decision? I don't know if any colleges can or would "enforce" an ED decision. Someone would have to post here with a specific experience of that. Someone would have to post whether legal action was ever taken against a college which attempted to so enforce. Or, alternatively, whether legal action was ever taken against a student who reneged. That would be they only way we could know whether they can "enforce" the agreement.</li>
<li> The impact on guidance offices and high schools has, in fact, been discussed on this thread. By myself and others.</li>
</ol>

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<p>
[quote]
Xiggi, you're wrong. I posted Columbia's policy over a year ago.</p>

<p>You're wrong and extremely unhelpful.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No, Dtark. The Columbia policies were not new; you quoted selected portions of it to make your point ... then and now. </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=333520&#post333520%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=333520&#post333520&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Reposted from a couple of years ago:</p>

<p>Dstark, here are the two paragraphs that answer the questions "Can I be released from my Early Decision contract because of my financial aid package?" and "May I appeal a financial aid package if admitted?". I do not think that the answers contradict per se what you posted earlier; the added information paints a fuller picture om how to obtain the release. The decision not to attend Columbia -for financial reasons- rests with the family. The decision to review the financial package and grant a release rests with Columbia. </p>

<p>Allow me also to interject a slight twist. I think that there are various degrees of possible conflicts -not to say abuse. A student such as Valdez who is hesitating to accept the offer of Princeton and wants additional time to review his current financial situation presents a different situation from students who accept the offer in January and do not cancel their submitted RD applications to weigh the packages in April. I believe that it is the second situation that so infuriates CC posters in the past. In the case of Valdez, no real harm is done as Princeton has not started making decisions on the RD pool. Playing games until April or May is the situation that triggers the ire of admission offices and result in retaliation, especially when a candidate tries to cancel his ED for a comparable school. </p>

<p>The source is <a href="http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]

Can I be released from my Early Decision contract because of my financial aid package?
It is extremely rare for a family to ask to be released from the Early Decision commitment for financial reasons. There are usually only two or three families each year that ultimately are released for financial aid reasons, and this is normally due to a lack of understanding of need-based aid (i.e., they were expecting merit-based aid, they did not submit complete information when using a financial aid estimator, etc). </p>

<p>IT IS THE FAMILY?S DETERMINATION THAT THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO FINANCE A COLUMBIA EDUCATION THAT ALLOWS THEM TO BE RELEASED FROM THE BINDING EARLY DECISION ADMISSIONS OFFER. The family must first speak with a financial aid officer, before the release is finalized. Ultimately, it is the family?s decision whether or not they feel capable of accepting the need-based Columbia financial aid award.</p>

<p>Those who do opt out of their Early Decision contract are released to pursue lower-cost school options, such as state schools and/or schools that award merit aid. The admission offer to Columbia is then cancelled. A candidate who withdraws from Columbia?s Early Decision offer will not be allowed to reconsider Columbia?s financial aid estimate in the spring Regular Decision cycle, and will not be able to reinstate the original offer of admission. </p>

<p>And </p>

<p>May I appeal a financial aid package if admitted?
1. YES, if your family?s financial circumstances changed after you submitted your financial aid application, you may ask, in writing, for a reconsideration of your aid package. You may do this at any time during the year if your family circumstances change.
2. YES, if you have complicated circumstances, and you would like us to take a second look at how we interpreted your family's financial situation. Please be in contact with our staff.
3. YES, if another need-based school has provided you a different interpretation of your family's financial circumstances. You may also ask us to take a second look at how we have interpreted your situation.
4. NO, if your sole reason for the appeal is that you are asking us to consider merit-based offers from other schools.</p>

<p>If you would like to discuss your award, please call the Office of Financial Aid and Educational Financing to speak with one of our counselors: 212-854-3711.

[/quote]
</p>

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<p>jmmom, the Marines called up my son and tried to recruit him yesterday which really ****ed me off. So I was not in the best of moods when I started to read the old ED nonsense.</p>

<p>You are one of the top posters on this board. You have as much common sense as anybody and you don't steer people in the wrong direction. You also don't make things up.</p>

<p>But you already know this. :)</p>

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<p>xiggi, my friend, the question is not what the paragraphs say. The policies are clear in most, if not all, cases. The question is WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS. How, ACTUALLY, do colleges respond if a student wants to renege based on a merit offer, or for whatever reason.</p>

<p>Folks should not post here to answer THAT question unless they have specific experiences or knowledge of how colleges have acted in that situation. It is not helpful to post what the policies say is supposed to happen. The question being asked here is whether the policies are ever not enforced.</p>