<p>S1 just returned home from his freshman year at his first choice school. It was a reach and we were all a little surprised that he got in but very happy for him. First semester he has 3 B's and 2 C's. Not great, but I think he was really surprised at the difficulty of work and realized that his HS study skills just weren't as good as some of his dorm mates. He was the smart kid in HS that never really had to study that hard, or at least he could knuckle down in the 11th hour and pull out a decent grade. Not so once he hit the big (Ivy) league :( </p>
<p>Second semester grades just came in and we are looking at 3C's and 2 B's (and I think two of those were actually c-'s). We just sat down and had a long talk; he a little weepy, me a little scared. He is wondering if he is just not really smart enough, he works hard (at least as hard as he knows how to, which might be the crux of the issue) but it doesn't seem to result in the grades he wants.</p>
<p>He loves the school and wants to stay but feels like a failure and that he is letting us as well as himself down, and is starting to feel like he doesn't belong. </p>
<p>The grades aren't so bad that he couldn't transfer (I don't think, but I don't really know) but the timing is off and he really wants to make this work. I'm not sure how to advise him. I suggested that he contact the engineering dean and ask for an advisor that will actually communicate with him as opposed to just signing off on his course requests.</p>
<p>I know in my heart that he has the innate cognitive ability to do this level of work and it is so sad to see him doubt himself.</p>
<p>Last piece of this is that he has pledged a fraternity and now doesn't have the GPA to join so his housing for the fall is up in the air. I worry about him moving into a 1 bdrm and being isolated combined with these feelings of failure (I'm not worried about depression per se, just that it might be harder for him to get motivated if he feels like he's all alone)</p>
<p>We need some perspective as well as concrete advise - please help.</p>
<p>He may be working “hard” but not working “smart.” If he never had to learn how to study in high school, he’s probably having to find out some basic things about his own learning style now, in the midst of very demanding coursework. Engineering is notorious for being a difficult field.</p>
<p>Are you confident that he really is keeping up with the daily demands of his coursework and not trying to do things at the last moment? As you probably are aware, college courses operate very differently from high school classes in that the professor isn’t going to be keeping tabs on individual student performance and he will need to take the initiative to go to study groups, tutoring sessions and professors office hours frequently if he’s struggling. If he’s doing all of that, then maybe this summer would be a good time to meet with a learning skills specialist who could give him some concrete strategies for academic success - after all, if he got into an Ivy, he’s certainly got the smarts!</p>
<p>Is he still convinced that engineering is the right major for him?</p>
<p>Can he contact the frat and get a waiver for the housing GPA requirement - they must have some sort of probationary kind of option?</p>
<p>Is his GPA in the 2.3-2.5 range (just guessing from what you’ve described above)? Is that really considered all that low in an engineering school? I was under the impression that many 1st year engineering students have GPAs under 3.0 - it’s a tough curriculum. Kids who have never had to put in much effort in hs because they’re so naturally bright are at a disadvantage once they get to the tougher material. But I’ve read a number of stories on CC over the years about kids who’ve posted lower freshman GPAs and turned the situation around. </p>
<p>Is retaking any of these courses an option? It does sound as if requesting a more involved advisor would be a good idea. I’m sure other posters will have more concrete suggestions - wishing you and your s good luck.</p>
<p>Did he use AP credit to qualify for more advanced classes than most freshmen take? Is he taking the first series of classes for a major (engineering) that - in retrospect - may not be the right major for him? (Both of these are not-uncommon-on-cc reasons for stellar high school students to have less than stellar freshman years.)</p>
<p>Is he in an engineering program that tries to weed out a proportion of the class early on? (If he knows this, and recognizes it, perhaps this will help him rise above it.)</p>
<p>The school is not too hard - he can do it! or they would not have admitted him - but he might need some academic coaching on study skills. Good luck to both of you.</p>
<p>That he was accepted in the first place and that he wants to do well is a sign to me that he can make it work. </p>
<p>I think stradmom covered it really well. </p>
<p>I returned to college after over a decade away. To my surprise, once I learned which study method worked best for me, I really was smart! I dubbed it my “I Hate Trees” method. I had to hand write notes in class, come home and type them up on the computer in outline form. </p>
<p>I would study those outlines and give myself a quiz. The answers I missed or theories I knew I was not grasping well went onto index cards that I carried with me everywhere and I studied them when I had free time throughout my day. </p>
<p>Before finals in one semesters, I had three of those small index card boxes in my purse! This was in addition to study groups and tutoring. It was a real “ah-ha” moment when I realized that smart people ask for help as soon as they realize they don’t understand something.</p>
<p>Best of luck to your son. It may take some trial and error but I bet once he figures out how his mind works best, his experience at college will improve.</p>
<p>The part of the post that stands out the most is that this is engineering. I’m not an expert, but as other posters have noted, it doesn’t seem like those grades are out of line for engineering schools. In fact, D has a friend who doesn’t want to transfer out of engineering because the low GPA is acceptable there, but if she moved to something else her GPA would be lower than her fellow students. </p>
<p>There are a couple of kids I know who really couldn’t hack it in engineering (and I think those were Fs not Cs) for whatever reason. They stayed in the same school, but transferred out of engineering. Both of them did fine (though the low GPAs limited their options to some extent).</p>
<p>Another really bright kid I know is getting Cs in her Ivy engineering school and is fine with it. She said something like Cs graduate engineers (but catchier). Are you sure there is really a problem?</p>
<p>He is a computer science major and still believes that is what he wants to do - in fact he has had an internship all year which hast turned into a paid position in CA this summer. He will do wonderful things out in the world, but he needs to figure out the school part before it takes him down and sucks the confidence out of him. I am going to email his SAT tutor to see if he has some time to chat with him about how he is studying because clearly he is not doing it right (and I don’t need to be looking over his shoulder to know that truth!) As far as the frat - I had my doubts to begin with that it was an environment conducive to serious studying for someone who is easily distracted so I’m not so sure I will encourage him to make it work.</p>
<p>Is there a student tutorial service at the college? Our DD found that to be very helpful with a couple of challenging courses. She said it was one of the smartest things she did…going to the tutor center. They also set up study groups and she did these too. College is very different from high school…not as much in class time but a signficant of independent work expected. It is a shock to MANY kids.</p>
<p>I agree…he would not have gotten accepted if there was an expectation that he would not be able to succeed. </p>
<p>Perhaps he can have a discussion with his academic advisor about how to arrange his courses so he does not feel overwhelmed or over loaded.</p>
<p>Getting some hard facts on what the avg gpa in engineering is a good idea. His thinking might be somewhat distorted. If you believe that everyone else is getting a 4.0 w/o working hard (even if it is nowhere close to the truth) it is bound to make you feel bad about yourself.</p>
<p>Investigate what resources the school has, and have your son utilize them. Many schools offer specialized labs and services in writing, math, and so forth.</p>
<p>Honestly, he told me that he thinks he got in because of family connections and even asked me not to patronize him by disagreeing. I told him that there was certainly people looking out for him but that they wouldn’t have taken him no matter what if they didn’t believe he could do the work (maybe if we had given a building or something that could have been the case - but we’re nowhere close to that!) It’s hard to have that seed planted, and then the challenges just feed it, the failure to thrive waters it and before you know it there is a beanstalk in your brain!</p>
<p>Back in the day, I knew several smart kids busting their brains and getting Bs and Cs in math and engineering. Today they are engineers! :)</p>
<p>wonder how I can find out what the average freshman gpa in the school of engineering is? doesn’t seem to be on the schools website - any ideas?</p>
<p>At my school I’ve heard 2.8 for freshmen and 2.9 overall (whether this is at graduation or currently enrolled I don’t know). I believe it’s pretty similar at most schools. I think Cornell (if that’s where he is) is a 3.1 overall, probably slightly lower for freshmen.</p>
<p>As best as I can tell - 2.8 average in the school of engineering - 2.5 freshman year. Other threads say that if you stay above a 3.0 you’re pretty good for whatever it is you might want to do post UG (work, internships, grad school) So maybe things aren’t as bad as he thinks</p>
<p>Engineering at an Ivy - Columbia or Cornell. D1 is at Cornell as a math major. As a 3rd year she finds it more manageable. The first year was very hard. Her GPA in college is .5 below her high school GPA. It is normal for college GPA to go down. </p>
<p>D1 uses office hours very effectively. She is taking a high level math course this semester. Both of her mid term and final are take homes. She visited her professor everyday for her mid term. The professor was very happy to see her and helped her a lot with the exam. For the final he said to D1, “You are the only one who comes to my office hour. If you need me, just call me at home and I will come in.” Of course, D1 called him. He checked her answers and give her some hints on few problems she didn’t know how to do. </p>
<p>Does your son go to office hours or see TAs? Instead spending hours on a problem set, it maybe more effective in seeking help. It’s free. He could also get brownie points for showing up. Even math/science/cs courses, grade could still be subjective because professors could give partial credit. </p>
<p>I would also talk to your son about his time management skill. Find out his study habit, see if he should change it. Not sure if your son went to a private school, but they do teach their kids time management and study skills. D1 tutors high school students when she is home from college. Instead of tutoring, she spends most of her time in showing kids how to organize their study materials.</p>
<p>OP - you might also want to post your concerns on the Penn forum - you might find more specific advice from parents of other students in the same program. Perhaps you’ll be able to locate some sophomores/juniors or their parents who have been through this issue and have some suggestions for you.</p>
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<p>That should be a big red flag. If I were paying and saw those grades, I would not continue to pay for that college unless the fraternity membership was gone.</p>
<p>5 grades for each semester. That seems like a heavy course load. At many schools 4 a “standard” load, if they’re all “full credit”</p>
<p>is your son sure that he wants to be a CS major? Perhaps he might enjoy a different area of Engineering?</p>