<p>Another Wharton grad here, who would just echo everything hmom5 has been saying in this thread.</p>
<p>I too have worked at places where they will only hire from a handful of top tier schools. Sorry to say, but Alabama wasn’t one of those schools (Michigan was).</p>
<p>IMHO, the OP will have much greater career options open to him by going to Michigan, especially in finance.</p>
<p>Checking the OP’s other posts, he has been all over the Michigan forum. It seems that is where he really wants to go.</p>
<p>Go to Alabama and have $50K in the bank when he graduates or go to the school he really wants to, Michigan, and have $50K in debt when he graduates. Well, it is his decision, but if he wants to go to Michigan (with in state tutition - which is a bargain), then that is what he should do.</p>
<p>I think a bigger issue here is that none of us can say for certain what the OP, at 17 or 18, TRULY wants out of life. Yes, he wants to go into business now, but something like 2/3 of all students change their major at some point. If he graduates from Ross, he’ll probably be fine (although, again, NOT an absolute certainty right now because of where the economy may or may not be going), but what if the OP decides after a year that he hates it? What if he takes a world language class and decides he wants to be a Japanese teacher? (True story: my Spanish teacher never took a foreign language, and was forced to by Ross. She wanted to take German but only Spanish was open. Loved it so much, she is now the head of the Spanish department at my old high school. But I digress). The point is, is it really worth the $100k in debt with all of these uncertainties? In my mind, no. </p>
<p>Just out of curiosity, why can’t you get your BBA at Bama and your MBA at UMich? I am not a business major so I’m not sure how that all works, forgive my ignorance.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Assuming his parents contribute nothing, it’s actually more like $100k. Just saying.</p>
<p>First of all, if you took out your loans for GRAD SCHOOL, then that’s a whole different story. Let’s compare apples with apples, not apples with oranges. I don’t think anyone would argue against the potential risks of taking out big loans to get a Wharton MBA (or to go to med/law/dental school anywhere). My DS will likely be taking out big loans for med school, unless he goes to public state and then we’ll pay for that.</p>
<p>But, even if you went to UPenn for undergrad…</p>
<p>Going to UPenn 20-30 years ago was cheaper in real dollars than it is today. Those “big loans” you took out were comparably less than they would be today. If someone had to borrow the COA for 4 years of undergrad today (about $220k), I doubt many could pay it off in 3 years years post undergrad.</p>
<p>But, there’s no point in arguing this. The OP isn’t even sure if he wants to major in finance. He’s thinking of becoming a doctor. If he goes that route, then choosing Bama will be a “no brainer.”</p>
<p>Here’s the part that I don’t get. Is it better at 18 to choose something that closes doors when you’re not certain where you will end up? To save what may well amount to a fraction of one year’s salary five years out? Shouldn’t the idea be that if you’re not sure, keep as many doors open as possible, i.e., the better school?</p>
<p>It’s no wonder Obama needs to hold job creation idea forums. If we always encourage the safe route no one will take the risks necessary to start the companies needed to stop this Country from losing it’s edge.</p>
<p>And I especially love all of the advice to wait and get a good MBA…those cost $200K with little chance of any aid. Many with good BBAs or other top degrees, who get good jobs right out of college, will never need an MBA.</p>
<p>I went to Penn for both undergrad and grad schools. It would have been worth 50 times the loans I took, probably much more but don’t have a calculator handy.</p>
<p>I don’t have time right now to read through all of this: </p>
<p>To my understanding, Ross preadmit doesn’t release decisions until later, so OP right now is not comparing UM Business to anything (because he hasn’t been accepted to anything but LSA at this point)…discussion is premature…</p>
<p>If admitted to Ross in the winter (or whenever), then the decision comes down to this whole shpiel…if he doesn’t, moot point…then he has to decide if the $100,000 is worth it because he/she can’t count on being admitted to Ross later on…</p>
<p>I don’t know how many students I’ve counseled that are looking a graduate level degrees with a target school in mind and told them the same thing. If you’re heading that route, no one cares where you got your bachelors.</p>
<p>BTW hmom, I mentioned the article and research to not rely upon anecdotals.</p>
<p>So you fact checked the article? J/K, the article is irrelevant. We’re talking about jobs that start a career and where one should go to qualify for the top ones. That such articles even get written is just proof that top jobs have long gone to top school grads. </p>
<p>And BTW, small secret in finance, even with an MBA, undergrad matters. You might mention that to future clients. It’s a small, small world and networks are everything.</p>
<p>This is definitely weird, but I went to Penn for both undergrad and grad degrees, too.</p>
<p>The OP states in his first post that he will have 32k or 33 k saved from working by the time he goes to college. He then plans on working at school, so he thinks he can cover half the cost of going to Michigan and graduate with about 50k in debt…or go to Alabama and graduate with about 45k in the bank.</p>
<p>He can fund half of the cost of his “dream school” and only graduate with 50k in debt (about $500 a month for 10 years). Whether he goes into finance or not, he should follow his dream. He shouldn’t put himself in a situation where 10, 20, 30 years from now, he will think, “Michigan wasn’t that expensive and I had half the cost covered. Why didn’t I just do what I really wanted to do?”</p>
<p>Yes, that could be a huge stumbling block for the OP…</p>
<hr>
<p>I think it’s unrealistic for most full-time students (who are also enjoying some aspect of college life and doing well academically ) to earn $50k while in undergrad to solely put towards tuition. To earn that much (or more) while in school usually means doing a co-op, which can delay graduation by a year or two, or working so much that grades suffer or there’s little time to enjoy being in college.</p>
<p>Typically, a student earns maybe book money, pocket money, gas money, weekend trips with his buddies money, dating money, and misc costs for college. Rarely, can he earn enough to pay for the previously mentioned list, while also earning $50k to put towards tuition. Again, to do so, would likely jeopardize grades and/or have no fun at all.</p>
<p>I realize that there are some who have paid the big bucks to go to a top 10 school, and it bothers them to consider that others might just get to the same place without the ivy (or similar) undergrad diploma. It’s kind of like “old money” people being annoyed at “new money” people. LOL It’s amusing.</p>
<p>Yes hmom, I went and called all 100+ companies in the USAToday article and verified which schools their CEO’s went to. I then went and double checked all the research of a Princeton economist and MIT published researcher.</p>
<p>If I had to work with people that would turn up their noses at my UCI undergrad degree even with a top masters, I’d find successful work elsewhere. LOL Seriously, who needs to be around such snobby people? These SAME people might look down on me for having gone to a Catholic all-girls high school instead of some ivy prep school or that my parents never belonged to the right clubs. Who needs to be held to such ridiculous elitist standards? There’s money to be made elsewhere.</p>
<p>Do you really believe this is the issue? Let me state what I’ve seen plainly: The OP has no chance in h*** of top jobs in finance coming from Bama. Trust me, unless he’s a football star clients want to meet, there is absolutely no danger of a Bama graduate displacing an ivy grad for a top business job–not just finance. </p>
<p>Let’s turn it around. I think lots of people need to believe the above is true as only 1% of students attend the schools where all jobs are open to them. Call it snobby or what you will, it’s just reality. And while you may be happy to work where UCI is seen as a top school, maybe the OP has other ambitions.</p>
<p>At this stage of my career, what she is saying is just intuitive. </p>
<p>Bottom line - if the OP wants to go to Michigan, which it appears he does; and it is the better school, which it is; and it is doable, which in this case, it is, then that is where he should go.</p>
<p>For the OP. Read the USAToday article linked earlier. Read this article at the Brookings Institute. Weigh everything said here. Then make the right decision for you.</p>
<p>Again, I will state…there are VERY FEW careers that require you to go to a top ivy (or similar) school in order to be financially very successful. For the 99.9% of people who are not seeking those careers, then taking out such loans is silly.</p>
<p>And, again, the OP isn’t set on Business school, he may go pre-med. That decision is what he needs to be more concerned about right now, so he can make the best choice in the spring.</p>
<p>And, that UCI comment was very rude. I never said that UCI was a top school. I said that “If I had to work with people that would turn up their noses at my UCI undergrad degree even with a top masters, I’d find successful work elsewhere.” My point was that if people were going to look down on me for having my undergrad at UCI, with a masters from a top school elsewhere, then I’d make money elsewhere. Good heavens, what’s next, they might not like my sorority, my religion, or my nationality. But, as you say, “Call it snobby or what you will, it’s just reality.”</p>
<p>Hmom…it’s wonderful that you’re earning 7 figures. A lot of us will stay in the 6 figures income range, and that’s fine.</p>
<p>Next? All of that has always effected life…Like it or not, where we come from will always dramatically impact our opportunities in life. But for better or worse, education has become the leading determining factor of ‘class’ in America. In many countries the lead factor is still things like religion and who your family is.</p>
<p>This whole attitude of take the cheaper education at all costs is extremely harmful, IMHO, to upward mobility. </p>
<p>99% of jobs don’t depend on where you went to school? I don’t believe for a minute that this is true, but if it were, why shouldn’t anyone with the stats Bama wants to buy not be aspire to the top 1%.</p>
<p>While we can generalize that school might not matter for most careers the truth is a top degree will positively impact the vast majority. An engineer that attends MIT or Caltech has a vastly different job outlook than one from UCI. When it comes down to getting choice residencies or research positions, where doctors went to school comes into play. </p>
<p>None of this is even factoring in the experience of going to college with the smartest possible peer group and how that impacts a young person. No study can quantify the value of a school network, yet those of us who have experienced powerful ones will tell you that alone might be the best reason to attend certain schools.</p>
<p>Also, nothing makes me crazier than the advice that one should take the lesser undergrad degree and just go to a top grad school. What percent of kids will get into a top grad school? For MBA programs, job out of undergrad is a huge part of who gets accepted. That is why the top ones are filled with grads of top colleges. Take a look at ho poorly even Berkeley and UCLA place in top MBA programs compared to top privates a fraction of their size.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’ve never discussed how much I earn but I think many of the kids who post on CC do want to enjoy financial success. They would probably all like to be in the position not to have to encourage their own kids to go to the cheapest college. There are better ways to choose a college if you have that option. Why encourage them to take what you perceive as the safe path? What makes you happy and what will make them happy could be very different.</p>
<p>I never get tired of interviewing young people where I see the passion in their eyes for having it all–going all the way–transcending their backgrounds and achieving their big goals. I’ll hire a hungry kid who has taken prudent risks to get where he wants to go in a flash.</p>
<p>Patrician? Call it what you will but I grew up with nothing and my education, loans and all, allowed me to fulfill my big ambitions and give my children a good life and great educations so they have a start in fulfilling theirs.</p>
Let’s compare apples with apples, not apples with oranges. I don’t think anyone would argue against the potential risks of taking out big loans to get a Wharton MBA (or to go to med/law/dental school anywhere). My DS will likely be taking out big loans for med school, unless he goes to public state and then we’ll pay for that.</p>