<p>I'm not exactly sure where highschoolers fit in but I thought the news story on NPR the other day pretty funny, sort of . . . . It seems that after a good deal of research and testing on the ethical behavior of different sectors of American society--differing age groups, occupations, lifestyles, etc.--the least ethical group was found to be junior high students. They came in at the bottom, just one rung beneath prison inmates. Prison society may not have a lot going for it, but at least it seems to shape its own code of ethics. Actually, when you come to think of it--or at least when I do--junior high and high school weren't all that different from prison. Maybe it's the institutions that are at fault here . . . ? Lack of direction and concerted philosophical focus, too much free t.v. time (channel 1), pay phones in the hallways, internet access in the computer lab . . . . Just a thought.</p>
<p>It our society, cheating is not seen as wrong by many- politicians, celebrities, business people, and the like.</p>
<p>Lying is lying. And just because the person isn't caught THIS TIME, don't be surprised that if they think they got away with it, the will do it again.</p>
<p>And, these 'exagerations" are jsut the ones people know about. Who knows what else they said? In essays for instance. Or with parents backgrounds. It is hard to believe someone when they have crossed that invisible line of honesty.</p>
<p>I am glad the OP has thought about this. That is growing up and questioning the choice made.</p>
<p>IMHO, what you did isn't that bad Everyone exaggerates to some extent about hours. At least you didn't make up extracurriculars, or say you were president of an activity that you were only a lowly member of. It's not like..."Wow...he had 11 hours a week of this particular activity...if he had merely had NINE, we would have immediately thrown away his application!"
Now some posters would think I have no morals, but I do. I just seriously don't think what you did is bad. Like a previous poster said, it's human nature to err on the side of more hours when calculating it. Now, if you said that you did ten hours when you really only did two hours, that would be a problem. It sounds to me, though, that you probably added at most like three hours. I notice that people on this board appear to be quick to judge the morals of others without thinking about how they were at this age. I mean, honestly, when I looked at extracurricular activity sheet on my applications and noticed that they asked for "hours," I wasn't sure WHAT to put. The hours I put in for activities truly varied each week. Some activities I was really involved with, but I only did an hour a week (like speech and debate) because the club met once a week. However, I was willing to spend entire Saturdays at other schools competing in my category (original interpretation), but that wasn't every week, it was at most once a month. I think spending an entire Saturday doing speech and debate is a sign of commitment, but the extracurricular activity sheet would have underestimated my involvement with the club by asking me to calculate it on a WEEK BY WEEK basis. Another activity only lasted for three months each year I did it. I was really into it, but there was no space on the application to indicate, sure, I spent five hours a week preparing for the competition of spoken Russian, but that activity started in January and ended in March. Again, like another poster said, it's not like most people carry around stopwatches to the events they do. I much prefer the applications that ask for the years someone has done this activity as opposed to "hours a week." That type of application takes into account that weeks can definetely vary and makes it a lot harder to lie.
You got into the school you got into. You tried to paint the best picture of yourself possible because you really wanted to get in there. Other people probably exaggerated their activities too. Some parents and teachers ENCOURAGE you to exaggerate what you do.Why?Because they know how unfairly difficult it is for people to get into schools these days. When my mom was a high school senior applying to Indiana University, all she had to do was supply her class rank. She immediately got in and got scholarships based on the fact that she was towards the top of her class. Now, students have to not just be club members but be leaders in every club they do. They have to do varsity sports. They should probably do some sort of student government/leadership activity. Not only that, but they should probably win awards on not only a state but a national level. All that AND maintain a near perfect GPA and SAT? Ok...and now everyone is saying that the OP is the ONLY person who has EVER cracked under the pressure and added an extra hour to French Club? Stop being so righteous, people. The kid got into college, he's clearly got a conscience or he wouldn't be feeling guilty, and he probably won't ever exaggerate something like this again because he doesn't want to relive the guilt...now that we have established this, CUT HIM A BREAK.
Hey poster: go outside and enjoy the sunshine. You got into college, you're going there, you're going to do great...now stop letting the past weigh you down, learn from your guilt...and MOVE ON.</p>
<p>Not everybody exaggerates about their ECs and hours. That is truly a fallacy. There actually are also students who are so concerned about being honest that they underestimate their ECs. It matters how much of a conscience one has.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, colleges are much more interested in the results of one's EC involvement -- projects started, awards won, lessons learned -- than how many hours one spent on them. Some students spend many hours on ECs and sit their as insightful and giving as doorknobs. They don't impress colleges.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, as for the parents, etc. who encourage students to exaggerate: Some people, including some parents, are unethical. That doesn't make things right.</p>
<p>well..i can say for sure that i did not exagerrate my hours at all. i rounded to the nearest decimal for my hours/week using the hours given by my employers. we have to draw the line for honesty somewhere...better that everyone not like at all ... that everyone lie in varying ranges from little to a lot.</p>
<p>the op should be feeling guilt...and posters here have a responsibility to not reassure him but teach him a lesson in honesty. LIEING IS bAD MMMKAY.</p>
<p>Ok, here's an idea - if the OP feels bad about having lied, he can inform the college. How's that?</p>
<p>nonconformitiy: why don't you go try to work as a casher. go ahead and pocket 1 penny off every order you sell. i mean come on...it is only 1 penny.
now imagine you were a stock broker. imagine pocketing an illegal penny off of all your client's transactions. it's not a huge deal right..it's just a penny. what matters most is that they made the transaction in the first place.</p>
<p>lieing is lieing...don't try to make it better than it actually is.</p>
<p>what i did was i took the least number of hours i had ever worked and then the most i had ever worked and put it as a range. but northstarmom - it is true that the majority of people "round up" or "exaggerate" its not uncommon. its possibly more common for people to "round up" on their applications. although u may be an all honest person, u must realize that most people are not, especially when it comes to college competition.</p>
<p>"if hes lying about these simple things, what else is he lying about?"
nothing obviously why are u even making these assumptions. he feels bad about these simple things so what would he be feeling if he made up clubs?</p>
<p>whether u parents want to face the reality of college admissions or not, this is how it is. although i myself put an average down, MOST people do not. college admissions KNOW this. they arent stupid. </p>
<p>i doubt the "most number of hours" uve ever done really varies that much from the average number.</p>
<p>and no, i really doubt the hours made a significant difference in ur admissions.
i dont believe its unethical either, its not lying. u have worked that much and most of these are approximations anyways. its not like u put 18 hours for something thats 2 hours. it really doesnt make a difference</p>
<p>the college admissions game is so large...how can some of you be so nieve to think that a couple of hours does not make a difference in admissions. there are tens of thousands of applicants to state schools..chances are some applications are probably EXACTLY the same ...maybe off by a little lie here or a little lie there.</p>
<p>think about it..there are probably a couple hundred rejections at every school that were just about qualified but didn't make the cut because of the amount of availible spaces. now imagine that these couple hundred spaces could have been flip-floped due to a couple hundred little liers. i think it makes a huge difference, especially when looking at the admissions game as a whole.</p>
<p>Could the OP give us a real example of the actual hours vs. the listed hours? If he says that he spent 15 hours total when he really spent 5 (on average), then that's a big deal. If we're arguing between 5 hours and 6 hours, though, it's not such a crisis.</p>
<p>Dru: Though your example is apt, think about the nature of the crime. Money is important. Money puts bread on the table. Taking money from the cash register makes it more difficult for the owner of the store to operate the store, and thus, provide for his or her family. Money is crucial to the operation of the store. Things can't run smoothly unless each penny is accounted for, so the theif of even one penny SHOULD be punished.
But what about the college admissions process? Again, let's use Indiana University as an example. Like I said, when my mom was applying, all she had to supply were her test scores and her class rank. Based on those, she got a free ride. Now, if she were applying, she would have to indicate her extracurriculars. Well, my mom was editor-in-cheif of her school paper. She also edited and wrote articles for her local town paper. She was in the school band, the marching band, and the community band. She played three instruments. She partcipated in debate and won trophies. She also held several jobs. IU gave her the scholarship when they DIDN'T know about her extracurriculars, but I'm willing to bet that with her impressive list, they probably would have given her a scholarship even by today's rigorous standards. Indiana University-Bloomington was a very respectable state university with motivated students in the 1970s, when it only asked for test scores and class rank. Today, with all the extra criteria it asks for, it is STILL a very respectable state university with motivated students. Unless you can PROVE to me that the quality of Indiana University improved a great deal in ranking and prestige based on the fact that it started asking people how many hours they spent on their extracurriculars, in fact, unless you can prove to me that the educational quality of Indiana University DEPENDS on the amount of hours spent on extracurriculars each week, then you can't really get me to ascribe any great importance to the fact that this kid may have added an extra hour to Debate club. In my mind, if the quality of the students remains roughly the same regardless of whether or not the school asks about extracurriculars, then DOES IT MATTER IN THE FIRST PLACE that he added a few extra hours to the club? Ask yourselves if all this additional pressure on students in the college admissions process has really been worth it. Has it vastly improved the quality of students in certain schools? Has it made schools jump in rankings? No. Harvard is still Harvard. Indiana University is still Indiana University. If anything, hasn't it just made many students (not just the original poster) resort to sneaky acts like adding a few extra hours here and there? Hasn't it made some students miserably sit through activities they hate just to look good on college applications? What good is the quest for "looking good on college applications" accomplishing? Volunteering is good, but people could volunteer anyway simply to help others without any ulterior motives such as looking good on college applications, and that would be an even nobler act. If the rule is arbitrary, change it! If the concept is stupid in the first place, maybe the person who breaks the rules is not a horrible person but just the victim of a flawed scheme.
McGill University doesn't ask for extracurriculars on its application, but its students still do A LOT of extracurriculars. McGill has a very motivated, interesting student body full of people who have contributed to their community. However, because of the no extracurricular requirement, it certainly lets in a few people who have been less than active in their school community. These people have NOT dragged down the quality of the school or been a detriment to the McGill community. McGill still has an interesting, diverse student body. My (very long-winded point) is that it DOESN'T MATTER. Seriously. It really doesn't. You can't make me think it matters, and I'm not just saying this to reassure the OP, because I seriously have no vested interest in this person and if I wanted to, I could tell him he was human scum. But I'm not going to, because he's not.</p>
<p>Obviously, some people here need discipline and class.</p>
<p>People won't listen. People are arrogant. Therefore, the one who is superior will have more dignity (of course some people don't know what this is).</p>
<p>Oh shut up and stop judging me. You don't know me and you don't know how much dignity I have. Why won't you reread what I wrote and think about some of the points I made about the college admissions process. I don't claim to be the ethicist but maybe I'm not as dead wrong as you think. Morals aren't always black and white.
Or you could just write a THIRD condescending comment towards "some people" that is obviously adressed at me. Just stick your nose up higher in the air.
"People won't listen. People are arrogant. Therefore, the one who is superior will have more dignity (of course some people don't know what this is)."-->what does that remotely have to do with what I was saying? I'm LISTENING. I'm not ARROGANT...I'm just trying to say...hey, maybe this kid isn't ADOLF HITLER just because he added an extra hour to debate club on his application.</p>
<p>Yes-- some people won't listen. Or read posts and think about them. Or have enough class not to make snitty comments, and enough discipline and dignity to actually actually think about and take the time to respond to peoples' points long-written points before judging them. </p>
<p>People like, oh, say, Quick2011.</p>
<p>just for giggles, my school had three debate captains (but only actually one) </p>
<p>I think that type of lying is significant, not the "adding an extra hour a week" type</p>
<p>I did not lie or exagerate. I also know that my GC sees the application when he sends in the packet and that he also has to comment on my ECs in the form he fills out for my recommendation. So if I put down 1,000 hours of some thing and he had me listed as average in ECs wouldn't that raise an alert at the college?</p>
<p>I don't think its a big deal but makes you wonder why someone would do this since it can't make up for less than stellar academics and its hard to believe the ECs are that important unless its something unusual or profound.</p>
<p>To the OP: don't feel too bad. Sure, it's wrong to exaggerate the hours, but yeah, most people probably did. That does not make it right, but really, i don't think that part of the application is super important. colleges list what they look at teh most, and ECs are usually on the list. I imagine what ecs you did and whether you held a leadership position matters more than how many hours. You should be honest, but come on, it's an application, you are SUPPOSED to try to make yourself look good. You shouldn't do it by lying, of course, but it is just stupid to estimate down for fear you would accidentally give yourself an extra hour a week on the debate team or something. I wouldn't inform the college, nor would I feel guilty about going there. Go ahead and feel bad about exaggerating the hours. Go do community service for about hte number of extra hours and you will have atoned for your sins. Enjoy college!</p>