Is UMichigan really that hard?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Michigan
1

This is somewhat of a “chance me” discussion, but more so my thoughts on what I’ve seen on CC. I’ve been reading some posts, and it seems like every single “chance me” on Michigan for OOS applicants gets met with “that’s definitely a reach” or “it’s pretty much an Ivy for OOS” even if the applicant has 1550+ SAT, perfect grades, and a wealth of extracurriculars. This struck me as odd because looking at the scatter plot of recent applicants from my high school (top public school in a major East Coast city) every second applicant gets in! I’m talking 8 to 11 students have been admitted to UMich every year for the past couple years out of 19-24 applicants. Not a single applicant above 1470 SAT and 4.1 weighted GPA has been denied! (4.1 GPA after 4 years means a fair amount of B’s in many APs or all As but barely any APs, by the way). Interestingly only 1-3 of those admitted actually attend, probably because they’re getting into “better” schools, Ivies and what not. Only a few 1500+ applicants have been denied, but they all had mid 3.xx weighted GPAs after 4 years, meaning they had many Bs and Cs on their transcripts. And still, there are kids getting accepted to Michigan with 1340s and mid 1400 SATs. With that in mind, why do people on this forum act like it’s impossible to get into? I don’t understand why people think Michigan is as competitive for OOS as, say, an Ivy, top UC, or Stanford, when those schools admit 1-3 kids from my high school to Michigan’s 8-11 each year.
Also with that in mind, here’s my “chance me,” although historically it seems like I will almost certainly get in. Mid 1500s SAT, all As and a few A-s, one B+ ever, and all courses since junior year taken at an R1 research university as part of an early college program. ECs include some clubs but more notably research with a possible publication on the way (ECs are pretty weak, I’ll be the first to admit it, but my goal in college/grad-school/career is to do research and so that’s what I’ve pursued in high school instead of wasting my time trying to be president of some club or captain of some sports team… Taking advanced courses in my field also motivated me to apply for the selective early college program, and this is all woven into my essays). Applying EA.

Sorry for the rant, maybe I’m missing something here, or maybe the posts I’ve read are actually an exception/old opinions.

2

I don’t know about Michigan, but I have also seen that CC is much more conservative than naviance or niche. But I am just starting out with the college search so I am no expert.

3

I am a regular on the Michigan threads. I will try to give you some perspective. First off Michigan only takes unweighted GPA not weighted. Many very high Stat kids were rejected last year and the previous years. They do a true holistic review. Your school is a top school in your region. My sons school was the top school in Illinois when he was accepted with about the same amount of kids. We have been told that a “B” at our school is like an “A” at most other instate schools. So getting “B” 'a was not an issue. His school was all honor and AP. No regular classes. So the AO for the school /region from Michigan knows this. You in theory are only compared to kids at your school /region.
Your school could also be a regional feeder to Michigan and why the higher acceptance rate.
There can be another school ranked 250 in the state with a high GPA as 3.5 and a 28 Act. No way you can compare those kids to my son’s or your school. They are compared to their school and region… Make sense?
Saying that… Yes… Michigan is a very hard get. And getting harder. Avg GPA is 3.9 with 32-35 Act. Engineering is 3.93 with 34 Act… Not much of a difference.
It is also in the top ten rankings in just about every field. It’s a great college atmosphere and great… Great college sports!!
World class research and faculty and facilities. Huge endowment. One of the largest Alumni. There’s a lot to like about the school

4

The acceptance rate for OOS applicants from the Class of 2022 was 19%. The breakdown for the Class of 2023 is not available yet.

For the entire Class of 2023, the average uwGPA was 3.9. Middle 50% SAT and ACT scores were 1,380-1,540 and 32-35.

What Naviance doesn’t tell you is what school at UMich did a student apply to (CoE, LSA, Nursing, Kinesiology, SMTD, etc.), who were the recruited athletes, course rigor, Pell Grants/1st Gens, essays, EC’s, etc.

Take a look at the Deferred Class of 2023 thread, the road is littered with high stats students being deferred and then later rejected. We have a member here with a 4.0/1,600 kid denied at UMich, but accepted and matriculated at CalTech.

If you feel you’re an almost certainty to be accepted, then I admire you’re bravado. Best of luck.

BTW, who inputs the info into your Naviance program? I remember some of this, like the acceptances, were input by students at my kids HS.

My kid’s CA HS sent 7 students (at least 2 of those were recruited athletes) to UMich for the Class of 2022. It’s one of the most popular OOS schools applied to here locally. Yield is high. I believe 68 students applied. If your HS’s yield to UMich is high, like here, then you have a built-in advantage over other high schools IMO.

5

Reach covers 2 things. Stats and finances. If it’s a statistical match, OOS is a financial reach, or most-often unaffordable. You have the stats to get in. Can you afford it. Most parents have to be independently wealthy to send their kids to a school paying triple the tuition at full pay, especially if you have siblings.

I would suggest one thing that is so often snubbed. Look at a scholarship. Seriously, someone is GIVING you 100k to go to school!

6

Neighbor’s kid anecdotal evidence fwiw.

Denied UVA OOS. Denied Cornell ED. Denied Vanderbilt ED2. Attending Michigan, but not Biz or Engineering.

7

OOS engineering anecdotal evidence from two cycles ago - no one accepted, including the val with perfect stats. He and my D were both wait listed. Neither accepted their spot on the WL so don’t know if either would have eventually come off. We did have one acceptance but to LSA.

8

It’s funny since the theme from people we know is if you get rejected from both Cornell and Vandy… Your going to Michigan. If you get accepted by either one, you get rejected from Michigan. I just hear this a lot and have no cause and effect for it. ?

9

@Knowsstuff - Funny, the val was accepted by Vandy ; )

10

Also be careful what you wish for. Besides being a great school Michigan is very tough. Especially in engineering. If you have determination and persistence to grind it out, you will be fine. (yes this can be said for most schools of this caliber)

11

@momofsenior1. Told ya… It’s a pattern and hear it so often. ?

12

One other minor note. While the freshman OOS % rate remains high, when compared to the other top publics, the past three years UMich has reduced the number of freshman OOS students from 47% to 45%. The trend may (or may not) continue for the Class of 2023 (no breakdown of stats is available yet) or the Class of 2024.

Speaking of anecdotal, a very good OOS friend of my kid from freshman year couldn’t handle the freshman year courseload, so they transfered back to their home state. Once you’re there, it ain’t easy. :slight_smile:

13

Are you in state for UMichigan? To what school are you applying?

I’ll be glad to follow your results.

A bunch of kids, all in upper quarter, most in upper tenth applied EA to UM. My son was one of them. He was in top 10th of the class , 4.0 UW, took two college courses at a national university, took all the core APs and was considered in the most rigorous track. 34 ACT. Applied to LSA. Accepted.

Only one accepted in his group early. The rest were deferred. I think they ultimately were accepted if they didn’t drop UM due to ED acceptance elsewhere which was the case with a number of them. He wasn’t the top one in the group. Two of the kids deferred were accepted to Columbia and Penn respectively.

I personally know two other kids deferred from UMich EA. They applied to the school of engineering. Both got in RD. One went to MIT ( was deferrerd from there too) and the other is going there, chose it over Cornell and CMU. Both top notch applicants.

There is a suspicion here that UMichigan doesn’t like being an EA safety for kids applying to more selective schools ED and getting some solace with a UM accept if the first choice ED school defers. So to protect yield, they defer—a theory only, mind you. Because more than half the kids in my son’s group were accepted early to their first choice schools, and so dropped UM before they were accepted RD and so they don’t count as turning down UM Do you get the reasoning here?

Some schools that feed a lot of kids to UM might have a line in to the regional AO, and might drop a little info as to who has UM as first choice. These things do happen.

My friend who grew up in Michigan has the same sentiments about admissions there that you do. In her day, at her well regarded. High school in Michigan, among the honors kids, Michigan was a given. Practically a safety school. She got a challenge to her perspective when her son was deferred despite sterling numbers.

14

Just One HS’s data set from naviance: up in the quadrant where mostly the non-athletes acceptances show up, there are 13 apps (past five years). 2 rejections. 6 acceptances. 5 waitlisted. Everywhere else is pure red x’s with a few isolated green checks. Acknowledging that the sample size for the kids with the acceptably high stats is small, I would describe U of M as one of the more predictable admits for our HS. I know 2 years ago, according to our GC chair, there was one baffling rejection, but same guy said that this year our kids did great at U of M. GC has a pretty long list of colleges he feels are pretty unpredictable. U of M is not one of them.

But a TON of kids with way too low stats apply every year. You don’t see that for the other top schools. Not sure why. U of M certainly does not beg for applications (like U of Chicago); in fact, my S20 has received absolutely nothing from them despite visiting a year ago. No mailing. No email. Zippo.

15

I don’t think that’s just a UMich issue, I’d speculate that’s the case at a lot of the elite schools. Everyone wants to take a “flyer,” like playing the lottery.

FWIW, the stats of students who post here on CC tend to skew high, but in the last admissions cycle, I recorded only two kids who appeared to not be in the middle 50% of stats at UMich. One kid had a uwGPA of a 3.4 and an SAT score of 1,450. Another kid had a uwGPA of 3.6 and an ACT score of 33. Both were rejected. Otherwise the average stats posted here on CC for UMich were: wGPA 3.9+, ACT score of 32.5 and SAT score of 1,480. The ACT score range for accepted students was 28-36. The SAT score range was 1,360-1,600.

The lowest accepted uwGPA was 3.7 for an in-state LSA student. The lowest uwGPA for an OOS LSA student was 3.75. The lowest uwGPA for an OOS CoE student was 3.8.

These CC stats appear to track fairly closely with the UMich admissions profile on their website.

We’ll see you here on Wednesday, December 18, 2019, when the projected release of the EA admission decisions will be released by UMich. Please post your results and stats. Thanks!

16

Michigan is not as difficult an admit as Stanford or Northwestern or Duke…but for unhooked OOS applicants, Michigan is a tough admit… you generally need to be at or above 3.8 unweighted and 1470/33 and up for test scores. For engineering and Ross applicants , add 50 SAT points/ 1 ACT composite point.

17

“There is a suspicion here that UMichigan doesn’t like being an EA safety for kids applying to more selective schools ED and getting some solace with a UM accept if the first choice ED school defers. So to protect yield, they defer—a theory only, mind you.”

That logic makes a lot of sense. EA OOS apps to public Ivies are the classic back-up plan for kids trying to hit the ED bullseye.

UVA typically hasn’t done the EA defer thing in the past. In part because their EA release date isn’t until late January, which eliminates all the ED accepts from their EA pool.

But as you might have noticed, UVA added ED for this year’s cycle. That’s an even more direct way to sort out the players from pretenders in the early rounds and increase the fairly low yield that the public Ivies get from OOS admit offers.

18

For the Class of 2022, UMich received approximately 40,000 EA apps (65,000-ish in total). Almost 8,000 EA apps were accepted, which was roughly 50% of the total acceptances of about 15,000. UMich yield is 45% overall.

So, there were a lot of high stat students admitted EA two admission cycles ago, including my kid. Detailed Class of 2023 stats aren’t available yet.

19

Given the logic of Michigan being a safety for some high stat students is it helpful to email AO to let them know I’m not applying ED anywhere and Michigan is first choice? Am out of state. Thx

20

Yes, yes and yes. But I would also try to pose a question maybe about a course or subject matter. What are you looking to major in?

Sometimes your schools counselor might be helpful in this regard also.

To me, this is a letter of intent (LOI) vs a letter of continued interest (LOCI). If you are deferred then you have sent two letters or two touches to the AO. Go to the Michigan night in your area or when they visit your school /region. You can email professors to ask questions then use that in your application to them. If your able to visit the campus. Research it online etc.