<p>My daughter has been accepted into all seven of her College choices. Villanova, St. Joseph’s, LaSalle, Arcadia, DeSales, Widener, and Catholic University, Most have given her between $20,000-28,000 in scholarship monies. Villanova, her #1came back with Zero. She as been welcomed into their honors program and has plans to attend in the fall. As a parent, I find it very hard to pay about $240,000 plus interest ( over 300K) only to graduate with a BS. She is planning on majoring in English and secondary education. She looks at this as falling in love, I look at it as a business decision. I don’t want to break my only daughters heart, but having her go into that much debt at such a young age without knowing what the job opportunities will be is just scary. My fear is that she graduates with payments about $1500 a month. We plan on helping her the same amount as we did our son (Drexel) but is it worth it…. I do believe going to Villanova has it’s advantages, also my daughter being happy is worth something, but is it worth $100,000 plus interest over her #2? We do not qualify for need based aid, we do however fall into middle class, but regardless of that, is Nova with it? </p>
<p>No. No school is worth that much. If she fell in love with the BMW but you could only afford the VW, would it be a good idea to borrow the money to make her happy? Incur extra costs with registration and insurance, year after year? Make payments long after the car has been retired?</p>
<p>If the other schools were good enough to apply to, why is she suddenly unhappy with them? </p>
<p>She will only be able to borrow about $30k and the rest will be yours. If she wants to be a teacher, she won’t make enough to pay $1500 month, and again, that will be YOUR payment, not hers.</p>
<p>This will not be the last time in her life she hears the word NO.</p>
<p>No. Villanova offered D a whopping $7k grant. Doesn’t make much of a dent when you’re not eligible for need-based aid and can’t afford $50k/year out of pocket. Thankfully Nova was her second choice, so it wasn’t as difficult for us. Most of the other schools offered FAR more money. Ultimately she didn’t choose one of the cheapest options (which we would have been able to pay for without loans). Her top choice was a few thousand more than we could afford, so she’s taken loans for that amount (but we hope to pay them for her, just not promising anything yet). It’s hard to make it seem real to a teenager, but how will they ever afford an apartment, food, utilities, car, or anything else if they’re making the equivalent of a house payment every month? To us, it didn’t matter what school it was - there was no way we were taking on that amount of debt, even as cosigners. She may be able to get some forgiveness and graduated payments depending on what she does upon graduation, but it’s still not worth it. And you will need to cosign the bulk of these loans. Are you prepared to take on these payments if she is not able to pay? She’s got some great alternatives. Can you arrange a few more campus visits, maybe try to set up sitting in on a class or meeting some faculty one-on-one to try to get her more enthused about more realistic choices?</p>
<p>I hear you both. It is so hard to tell your D its for her own good. Just getting into VU is a awesome achievement. But if attending does not allow you to pursue your dreams and passions because you need to take a job just to pay student loans, it’s not worth it… even if that job pay you the money you need to make those payments of $1500 a month which is doubtful. I hope she can fall in love with another on her own, without me being the bad guy.</p>
<p>Sounds like you live near me. If she’s going for education, she’d be crazy to pay that much. Assuming she wants to teach in a public school, her best bet might be to check and see if she could still get into West Chester, which has an extremely well regarded education program. </p>
<p>Also, would she consider commuting to Villanova? I believe that would make her eligible for a 9k commuter scholarship. </p>
<p>Ending up with a $1500 student loan monthly payment as a young teacher will be an albatross around her neck that will take a long time to get rid of and it seems ridiculous given that she has other good alternatives. My daughter has been accepted to some of the same schools your daughter has and also received very good merit offers. I ruled out her even applying to Villanova after running their NPC and hearing how stingy with aid they are. </p>
<p>Can I ask which of those schools offered her 28k? I have two high schoolers now. We’re thinking our son, who’s still only a freshman, might commute when his time comes. The first four schools you named would all be easy commutes for us - as would Penn State Abington, Philly U, and Temple. </p>
<p>Let’s say your daughter came out of school and immediately got a job that pays around $30k/yr (not an unreasonable assumption). Well over half of her pretax salary would go towards servicing her student loans which is frankly insane. CUA is a pretty decent school with a strong focus in the humanities. </p>
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<p>I got that number from a friend of mine whose son was in a similar situation. He ended up at the Schreyer Honors College at Penn State where he’s now a junior. I just checked the website now and It looks like the commuter scholarship number is not a set amount and the average last year was closer to 13k. It also says priority is given to students with financial need. According to Villanova, the family I know didn’t have any. Also, he was only offered the commuter money after the family called the school to see if they could get some more scholarship money. If you’re going to do that, do it sooner rather than later - looks like they hand down commuter scholarship decisions April 1.</p>
<p>Commuting to Villanova is really not a option, myself along with my wife want her to have the full college experience. I realize it’s an option, but maybe not for us, I guess I will add that to the topic in tonights discussion. Widener was the one who offered her 28k, 23k plus a 5k scholarship she was chosen for at her HS if she choses to attend Widener, it was part of channel 10 news I think. I think St. Joseph’s and Arcadia are her next choice. It’s just ashamed to wait and see if you get in, the letter arrives before Christmas the next letter says "welcome to Honors… and then the BIG let down of Zero money. </p>
<p>My son really liked Villanova during the admissions sessions, but they had the highest net cost by far among all of his 8 choices - it was significantly higher. He went elsewhere and I told my daughter not to bother to apply.</p>
<p>Villanova is probably worth the price for a business major, but not for an english/education major. it would be better to save some of your debt capacity for grad school.</p>
<p>Also, are you sure Villanova even offers a secondary education major? I vaguely remember reading that students may have to take education courses at Rosemont College.</p>
<p>You might also want to check out the housing situation. As of 2 years ago, almost all freshmen lived in double rooms that had been converted into triple occupancy, and the lounges had been converted into housing. That doesn’t provide much opportunity to get away from your 2 roommates, if you can’t even go to a lounge. The on-campus housing shortage for upperclassmen is also relevant because housing is so expensive in that area. </p>
<p>Villanova was also the whitest college that I have ever visited. </p>
<p>Widener is in the best part of Chester, but I’d still be concerned about the crime issues. </p>
<p>The question may end up: Is an English degree from Villanova worth $90,000 more than an English degree from St. Joe’s? I think that answer is no. </p>
<p>Maybe you need to spend more time at St. Joe’s or another college (such as an overnight visit) so that she feels more comfortable with that alternative…</p>
<p>One thing that helped my son decide on a college choice: I told him that if he attended Villanova, he would need to work throughout the school year, in addition to the summer. If he attended anyone of his other choices, he only needed to work during the summer. That made his decision easy - I never had to get into a discussion about debt payments.</p>
<p>Not sure about the secondary major, I know she checked into it and are pretty sure they do, however I never asked the direct question. As for it being the whitest college, I can’t speak to that either, all I know is that is where she wants to go. I hope and pray she can see the light and make a smart decision. As a parent, all I want is for her to be happy, I think once she is in a different University, she will be Ok, it’s just getting to that point that is tough. We are going to attend accepted students day Friday, its going to be hard seeing all the kids cheer us on Lancaster Ave as accepted students, and know in my soul it’s a tough putt. Thanks for the tip on housing, I had heard of issues, but had not really looked into it. We live near KOP</p>
<p>At some point you have to have a talk about how this really isn’t only her decision. There’s no way she can take all those loans without you cosigning. This has to be a family decision. I made a spreadsheet of all the schools D was accepted to, anticipated costs (including travel and entertainment), what we could contribute, what could be covered by loans, and what the gaps were. We then had a deep discussion about loans and debt upon graduation as well as what it would mean if she wanted to study abroad, visit friends in other states over spring break, and other “extras” that we wouldn’t be able to afford if we were strained to the max. I know you want her to be happy, but as a parent you also have to teach her to be practical. I like the BMW analogy. She needs to learn about costs and realities. If you fund all this, what is she going to expect upon graduation? Will she be prepared to find an apartment she can afford, or will you subsidize her dream apartment? And will she expect a brand new car? Or be willing to drive a beater that she can afford?</p>
<p>I cringe about you going to accepted students days, as I’ve heard they’re wonderful and will probably only make things harder. We all have dreams, but not all are obtainable. You need to help her focus on what a great opportunity she has to get an affordable education at some really good schools. There are many good students who would love to go anywhere but it just isn’t going to happen for them. She’s got parents who are in a position to make this happen. That in itself is a tremendous gift.</p>
<p>Absolutely not! As a former school teacher, and now a high school counselor, I only had a loan payment of 200 a month and I hated every single minute of it. Schools should have three things; a social fit, academic fit, and financial fit. Students have to understand that the third piece of the puzzle weighs heavy in the equation. I will say though that even though you won’t “qualify” for financial aid by filing the FAFSA, this is a must do. Each of the schools on the list use what’s called institutional methodology. While you won’t qualify for federal pell grants and state grants, doesn’t mean that the university won’t throw more money and grants on top of the initial scholarships. Once you complete the FAFSA the schools will develop an award letter that will give you a better idea of the exact cost of attendance. Some schools will offer free books for completing the FAFSA, I have heard that Widener offers a 1000 extra grant for completing the FAFSA. But to pay full tilt for a university for a BS degree in Education is just not worth it. </p>
<p>Yes, Yes .Yes… I agree, and you are all right, My D is very selfless, she has always been others first, helps the poor, feeds the homeless, never has asked for anything in her life…now the one time she really is excited and really wants this, and has earned a acceptance to VU…, it becomes a problem. Like I said, she is smart, and I am sure she will make the right decision. A few years ago, when my son wanted to go to BU and it was a net 55k per year he and I we were having a similar discussion, she asked me if I had money put away for her college, I said Yes, she said, can you give it to ______ so he can go to the school of his dreams? It just breaks my heart…</p>
<p>Figure out the starting salary for a HS English teacher and determine what her take home pay would be.
Figure out rent, car payment, utilities, etc. Show her how her payment would fit into that budget.
She will be paying for a house without getting the house. </p>
<p>Also, colleges give merit scholarships in order to entice you to come to their college.<br>
Some colleges do not have to because of their reputation (e.g., Princeton).
Some colleges don’t because they are already a great value (e.g., SUNY Binghamton)
But for Villanova in your daughter’s case, they are saying “you can come, but we don’t think we need to do anything to sweeten the deal.”</p>
<p>"As a parent, I find it very hard to pay about $240,000 plus interest ( over 300K) only to graduate with a BS. She is planning on majoring in English and secondary education. "</p>
<p>No…it’s not worth it. And it’s crazy. And with a teacher’s salary, she’ll be annoyed with those loans. </p>
<p>Right now, she’s expressing typical teenage drama. She’ll get over it. She has NO IDEA of how such loans will ruin her life. And, tell her THIS…there a people who won’t won’t to get involved with someone with that debt…so it could affect future marriage plans.</p>
<p>What other school does she like.</p>
<p>Also…have you contacted 'Nova and told them about the other offers? If not, you should. </p>
<p>“Figure out the starting salary for a HS English teacher and determine what her take home pay would be.
Figure out rent, car payment, utilities, etc. Show her how her payment would fit into that budget.
She will be paying for a house without getting the house.”</p>
<p>This is very true. Your D has no idea how such debt will hurt her. she may think…hmmm, I’ll earn $35k per year, if I have to pay $15k per year towards my debt, I’ll still have a lot leftover. She doesn’t realize that she’ll have to pay taxes, rent, retirement contributions, etc.</p>
<p>I just wanted to say that you may find your daughter recovers more quickly than you expect. It’s highly likely that many of her friends will ultimately choose schools based primarily on their cost even if it may not seem that way right now. My niece went to one of the private girls’ schools not too far from KofP. I’m sure you know it and as you know most of those girls are pretty well to do. My niece and her friends were all top tier students. They were looking at Notre Dame, BC, Georgetown, Brown, and Duke. My niece told her Dad that was where all her friends were going. Well, they were all accepted to those schools but instead ended up at Scranton, Delaware, St. Joe’s, Temple, and Pitt Honors College. Meanwhile, my niece, who refused to look at what she considered lesser schools, is at BU. She’ll graduate with about 80k in loans. Although she loves BU, she already regrets the loans and is thinking about finishing up at Temple. My brother in law ruefully points out how all those other families have more money than he does too. </p>
<p>I’m from that area, and I can see why your daughter is disappointed. Probably too late now, but the other choices seem far, far below Villanova, in my opinion. No, Villanova is not worth that money for an education major. I happen to think Villanova is over-priced and they do seem very stingy with their scholarships. I think that West Chester, TCNJ, Rutgers, Delaware or a number of other schools would have been nice adds to the application list. St. Joseph’s would be my choice of what you have left. No way would I want my kid going to Widener. A kid who got into Villanova doesn’t need to go to Widener.</p>
<p>She does sound like a great kid, and I can see you wanting only the best for her education. But think about how you’ll feel to watch her struggle under that unbearable debt burden. I know it broke my sister’s heart. They thought they were doing the right thing, and her son got a great education, but struggled to find a job in a difficult economy. He was working 3 part-time jobs and barely paying down his loans while still living at home. He ended up joining the military to clear his debt. It’s been a good decision for him, but it’s certainly not what my sister expected when he went off to college and they signed all those loans.</p>