Is Villanova University worth it?

Parents Forum
41

<p>OP, I don’t have any practical advice but just wanted to share that I feel your pain. I am also emotionally weak when it comes to my kids. They don’t ask for much, but when they do get something, they are always so appreciative. Your daughter sounds similar, so this must be extremely hard for you. Given that attitude though, I’m sure that she will come around.</p>

<p>If I am understanding correctly, your son had to turn down BU, his dream school, to attend Drexel due to cost. Is he happy there? I hope so and maybe she can see from that example, that she can also find a school where she can be just as content. Best of luck to you.</p>

42

<p>Yes, agree with these last few posts… “typically as happy as our least happy child” is exactly right. Last summer we told out daughters that we probably couldn’t afford their Ivy league dreams. My one daughter discussed it with us calmly but had tears running down her face (and she RARELY cries). I feel your pain. And yes, it’s going to take some time for her to get over the “loss.”</p>

43

<p>Help her fall in love with an alternate college (I’d suggest St. Joe’s from your list). Schedule an overnight trip. Look for friends or relatives who are current or recent students who can talk about it.</p>

<p>Her hard work in high school was not in vain - it earned her a substantial scholarship from St Joes and other colleges, and will make her college years easier and possibly shorter because of AP credits. The main value of AP classes is not to get the credit - it is to become accustomed to college level work so you don’t get overwhelmed your freshman year. For many students, high school is too easy, and they can’t suddenly adjust to more demanding academics. </p>

<p>It is better to shed tears now than to shed tears when the loans are due. </p>

<p>The list price of Villanova for tuition, room and board is $56,000 for next year, and the tuition has been increasing rapidly. Add another $1500 for books, and plenty more for personal expenses. Housing will be more expensive after the freshman year.</p>

<p>You might also offer that if she chooses a less expensive college, you will be able to afford a semester abroad.</p>

<hr>

<h2>The other thing I’ve heard parents say half-jokingly is: Sure you can pick an overpriced college, as long as you agree that your parents can move in with you after we retire. It is because too many parents sacrifice their retirement savings in order to pay college expenses for their kids. </h2>

<p>Also keep in mind that the first $20,000 or so of college debt over 4 years is easy, because it involves Stafford loans. The interest rate is currently low, and for the subsidized undergrad staffords, the government pays the interest while a student is in undergrad or grad school. The costs of borrowing money increases rapidly with Parent PLUS loans (with high fees), and increases further if private loans are needed. </p>

<p><a href=“Read this before you take out a Parent PLUS loan - Parents Forum - College Confidential Forums”>Read this before you take out a Parent PLUS loan - Parents Forum - College Confidential Forums;

44

<p>Late to this discussion…my son is currently a senior at Villanova. When he had all of his college acceptances, we did the spreadsheet exercise, comparing merit (none at VU) and need grants at each and looked at what his loan obligation might be. VU was not the most costly (that was Northeastern) but attending would require him to take out the maximum in student loans and maintain a couple of outside scholarships. We had saved for his college fund since infancy and also had $$ left from our older son’s college fund, so agreed to the choice of VU. VU also pretty much met our FAFSA EFC each year with need-based grants (and we’re also middle class). Honestly, he has loved the school; we love the school. He’s getting a great education at a really caring school in a great location.</p>

<p>However…I agree with all of the above posters that Villanova is just not worth the cost you will incur. Full-price, private university tuition would really only be worth it if your daughter would be attending the nursing or business or engineering schools. My son is a math major and it honestly pains me to realize that he could have gotten that same degree with the same lousy job prospects at any number of less costly universities. I hope that you will be able to help her come to that realization and happily choose another university. Definitely do not attend an accepted students day – at Villanova they really do suck you in [-( .</p>

<p>And FYI, the housing situation is not as bad as made out above. Freshman year my son was in a forced triple as were about half the class. The rooms were plenty big enough and he made some great friends. Sophomore and junior year were spent in the west campus apartments which are beautiful suites, some with two bathrooms. This year he’s off-campus by choice in a real typical-college-dump, having a great time even with the power outage for 5 days last week.</p>

45

<p>By the way, I just double checked and Villanova still has a secondary education major. It is primary education that they ended as a major.</p>

<p>I agree that Villanova does great open houses and accepted student days. If the college is not affordable, don’t go. It will make things worse. </p>

46

<p>The question comes down to what is truly affordable. Taking out loans that require $1500 a month payment is a whole other thing than if it came down to loans of $150 a month payment.</p>

<p>My son went to a college that was affordable without any loans. He took a job during the school year, and knew he had to work in the summer but all was very doable without those Direct loans. Then he got hit one semester. One problem after another, and he had to quit his school job, pay for some things that were not in the budget, yeah, things happen. At the same time, we got hit too by some really costly things, both medically, dental and car repair, home repair, no choice type things without incurring more serious issues, so we really were not able to help much either, though we did throw in more than we had agreed.</p>

<p>Then, he got a wonderful travel opportunity. One he will unlikely get at that price, and with personal tour guides and ins. But it meant two weeks of not working in the summer, and he was already behind the 8 ball financially. I was looking at that 401 K and other options, because it was SUCH a great opportunity for him. </p>

<p>So he took out the Direct loan to cover. Because he had that buffer. And it took him more than a year and a half to pay it back. It’s not easy paying these loans back. Really good lesson for him. Even though it hurt me as he learned it. </p>

<p>I also have a starving artist type son, who is living hand to mouth, but at least he has no school loans. He only has to come up with month to month expense of living, not to pay for what is past.</p>

47

<p>I teach in a well regarded school district in Pennsylvania. Of the 65 teachers at my school, only three of them went to private colleges. Of those three, one had wealthy parents who paid the entire cost of college, while the other two are still repaying their loans well into their 40’s.</p>

<p>While many of my colleagues had the opportunity to go to elite universities, they realized that it would have been too much of a financial burden to have to repay such enormous student loans on a teacher’s salary. In fact, some of the best and most respected teachers in our district did their undergrad at small state schools such as, West Chester, IUP and Shippensburg. </p>

<p>I know it is painful to disappoint your child, but you are really doing her a tremendous favor. Years of crippling student debt is not a gift you want to give her. Let her be sad for a while, then try to get her excited about other schools. Visit them, talk to students, buy a sweatshirt. It might take a little time, but she will come around.</p>

<p>Good luck. I know this is difficult.</p>

48

<p>I also think it is not worth it. Debt will effect where she can afford to live as an adult and things such as if she has to find supplemental work during summer and even if someone will seriously consider marrying you.</p>

<p>That said, I will throw something out there that others might know more about…</p>

<p>My coworker’s husband is a highly qualified special ed teacher in a title 1 school. He is able to do an income based repayment plan (10% of net IIRC) and have debt/some debt erased (supposedly) after a certain number of years (5-10?). That probably still only works if (1) your parents are not cosigning (which keeps the total debt probably too low for Nova), (2) you are willing to work at a title 1 school for low wages, and (3) and future spouse acquired in those years also doesn’t have a serious income. </p>

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<p>OP, your daughter will be unhappy for a while, but in almost every case, kids grow and thrive where planted. Do NOT tap your 401K. Do NOT buy into the myth that only the “dream school” can provide a good education or make a kid happy. The financial limit is reality for your daughter and family. She is also not alone - most kids have a limit on what their family can or are willing to pay and the amount of debt they will let their kid undertake. Ultimately, she can choose whether or not to be happy at the school she attends.</p>

<p>One thing I did with my son that thought loans were not a big deal was to show him what the payment would be and how much rent, car loan, insurance etc would be and how much salary would be required to make that payment. He chose the merit money package and now that he has graduated is happy to have only a small loan to pay back. </p>

<p>Good luck. It is not easy to accept that hard work does not always get you the prize you expected. </p>

50

<p>I’m afraid your daughter is an “admit/deny”, ie, she’s admitted academically but they only want her if she pays full price, and if she doesn’t they don’t want her, so they make an offer that’s unaffordable. It’s cruel.</p>

<p>Still she should not go to Widener. :slight_smile: Not sure about St Joe’s, either. Heard good things about Arcadia and if she wants a strictly Catholic university CUA is very respected, too.</p>

<p>There’s still time for her to get more choices. She has till May 1st to find another college she’d love.
West Chester shouldn’t be off the table - it’s the best school in PASSHE and their Secondary Ed program is very good, as well as their honors program (for which your daughter would likely qualify), it’s in a nice area, etc., so although IUP, Slippery Rock, etc, have good secondary ed programs, I would recommend West Chester over these.
That would be her financial safety.
Then, choices:</p>

<ul>
<li>with 2/15 deadlines (if she used CommonApp, it should be easy for her to apply to some of those)
Mulhenberg (very strong academically, deadline 2/15, should be able to replace Villanova as a favorite because it’s gorgeous, the students dynamic… and the financial aid is much better than Nova’s)
Siena
Allegheny, Wooster, Ursinus (also quite strong)</li>
</ul>

<p>-with 3/1 deadlines
Elizabethtown
Susquehanna
Albright
Ramapo
U Dayton (regionally well-known Catholic college)
UScranton
Washington College (MD)
Moravian (not Catholic, but Christian)</p>

<ul>
<li>with 3/15 deadlines (and +)
Wittenberg
Juniata (very strong in the sciences)
King’s
Drew
Albion (MI)
Hope (MI) (very strong in the sciences, Christian)</li>
</ul>

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<p>That was a very helpful post MYOS. I appreciate you researching on behalf of the OP.</p>

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<p>I also think she should apply to a few more schools, since as MOWC pointed out, the other ones on her list are quite a bit below Villanova and I would not recommend them. She can do better than Widener and Desales for sure. From the list above, Ursinus is excellent (especially in science/pre-med), and lots of people rave about Muhlenberg. </p>

53

<p>My niece is a sophomore at Washington College. Washington & Drew put together very nice merit aid packages for her& her GPA/SAT scores were not nearly as strong as the OP’s. Muhlenburg is very nice - DD’s school sends a handful or two of students there every year. Muhlenberg isn’t stingy with merit aid either. </p>

54

<p>The OP’s daughter has pretty high stats (2200 SATs, top 10% of her class). She may have had a shot at colleges with much better need-based aid than the schools that accepted her. Villanova, on average, only covers about 80% of demonstrated need. It meets full need of only about 15% of students. For comparison, Georgetown claims to meet full demonstrated need of nearly 97% of students who get need-based aid. It’s too late for Georgetown, but maybe not for some other schools (like Muhlenberg, mentioned above, which also is much more generous with n-b aid than Villanova).</p>

<p>Or do her offers consist only of merit aid (not need-based)? If that is the case, and your family income is too high to qualify for need-based aid, then it is to be expected that the net cost to attend your first-choice school will be higher. The best merit aid generally comes from schools where your stats are highest relative to the school’s average. If you don’t qualify for n-b aid, you often do pay a premium to attend a more selective college … but $300K is a huge premium. </p>

55

<p>I understand the heartbreak. It’s real. It’s terrible.
But Villanova isn’t worth 250-300k.
So you need to help your daughter find better alternatives (quickly).</p>

<p>Your daughter’s stats show that she’s worthy of much better than St Joe’s, Widener, deSales, etc. Being top 10% of her class indicates that she’s driven - her safeties are unlikely to challenge her since she’ll be with much, much weaker students. I actually can’t imagine what a student of her caliber would do at these schools. I guess she could ask to do a semester away and a year abroad and graduate early but she really won’t be challenged, even in honors courses. (To give you an idea, Honors at St Joe’s = 1300 SAT, ie., 650M/650CR, far below your daughter’s. Honors classes will be average for her and her non-honors classes will be plain boring, she won’t achieve her potential, and she’ll really resent it. At Widener, Honors = 1200 SAT…)
Hopefully you’ll convince her to send applications to good schools that still accept applications. She shouldn’t be made to attend some of the schools she got admitted to and Villanova really isn’t affordable nor is it worth it. So she needs a plan B.
Especially when you have a “better” school, like Muhlenberg, that still accepts applications (till tomorrow though so… hurry).
If rankings matter, Villanova is not nationally ranked (but regionally) whereas a bunch of other schools from posts above are. Villanova is respected for its Business school but has a reputation for having a very socially and ethnically homogenous student body that is unlikely to prepare well for secondary education (and secondary schools know that.)
If your daughter wants to attend a “preppy” school you have schools like Sweet Briar, Meredith, etc, which were traditionally for upper class daughters of prominent southern families.
If she wants a Catholic school, she could send applications to USeattle, UPortland, Gonzaga, USanDiego, USanFrancisco, Caroll College of Montana (which in its region has the same rank as Villanova for the NorthEast), Fairfield, Providence. But first run the Net Price Calculators to see if they’ll be affordable. Also, secondary school hiring tends to be local so she may not want to go to college so far away from your region. But if the colleges already listed above don’t work for you (or if she’s unable to get applications out on time*) they may be an alternative.</p>

<ul>
<li>Although this should only require her to submit her commonapp and to add an essay along the lines of “why college X”.</li>
</ul>

<p>Don’t take your daughter to admitted student days at Villanova, it’d only be cruel; do take her on tours to a bunch of other colleges (beside Muhlenberg, there are quite a few colleges in your area). When you do, make sure to register, to sign up at the admissions office, to ask to sit in on a class, etc. No college wants to feel like a safety so you have to indicate to them that they’re very much in consideration for your daugher. If she manages to indicate interest, with her stats, she should get a lot of financial aid or merit aid.</p>

56

<p>I agree with some of the others that it might be worth trying to apply to a few more schools. There is a huge gap in selectivity between Villanova and the other schools on the list. Some more intermediate schools may have also provided reasonable merit scholarships or merit aid. </p>

57

<p>“Your daughter’s stats show that she’s worthy of much better than St Joe’s, Widener, deSales, etc. Being top 10% of her class indicates that she’s driven - her safeties are unlikely to challenge her since she’ll be with much, much weaker students.”</p>

<p>Does everyone need to go to the ‘best’ school that accepts her? The highest reach? Nothing else is good enough?</p>

<p>It is insulting to say that St. Joseph’s or Catholic or one of the other schools doesn’t ‘deserve’ this student. She applied there, she must have thought the school was a good fit. I think she would have been happy at any of them if Nova hadn’t accepted her, but suddenly she’s too good for those schools?</p>

<p>I never mentioned the words ‘safety school’ to my kids (and one is top 10%). They looked at every school for it’s own value and applied to the schools they wanted to attend. Of course I was guiding them to schools I thought they would get into and like, but they didn’t apply to the many many schools that offered them free applications because they didn’t want to go to those schools, even if they received big merit, even if they were free.</p>

<p>If students are supposed to go to certain schools to avoid ‘weaker’ students, why don’t we just line them all up and assign them to schools based on their rank, gpa, and scores?</p>

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<p>I think St. Joe’s, as well as Dayton and Scranton, deserve a close look from a student who thought Nova was ideal.</p>

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<p>I’ve visited St. Joe’s as well and it’s lovely and well-located. I don’t understand why the OP’s daughter couldn’t be happy and successful there leading to her desired career. In fact, I thought that Villanova and St. Joes were very similar in terms of the “feel” of the two places.</p>

<p>IMO, scrambling to submit a load of last minute applications to schools she hasn’t considered before would not be the best use of her time and energy, especially since she is still mourning the loss of her #1 favorite option. Let her lick her wounds for a couple of days and then focus on her remaining affordable options.</p>

<p>I completely agree that going to Nova’s accepted students day would be a HUGE mistake.</p>

60

<p>No matter…all Villanova EA Accepted Student Day activities have been canceled for this weekend.</p>