<p>Ok, so its between Umass Isenberg and Northeastern for me. I am going for finance. Which is the better choice? Which school has more prestige and will help me land a better job? If you take cost out of the picture, which would be a better choice for a finance degree- Isenberg or Northeastern?</p>
<p>Northeastern heavily promotes its business program, but I don’t believe the differences in “prestige” matter that much - one way or the other*. If you like co-op, if that’s something which appeals to you, then that’s a reason to go to Northeastern. </p>
<p>*By that, I mean Isenberg is actually an older program and until recently Northeastern was a commuter school - had like 60,000 students, by far most part-time - and the co-op program was a way to afford school over time, not so much a competitive advantage. But times change. UMass was once a party school and now it isn’t. </p>
<p>Unless there’s something about one program that really attracts you, I don’t see a big difference. Now you say put aside cost, but the difference in cost is large.</p>
<p>I was not even aware that UMass had a business school named Isenberg. I think you would be better off looking at a Babson or Bentley with NU. [The</a> Top Undergraduate Business Programs](<a href=“http://bwnt.businessweek.com/interactive_reports/undergrad_bschool_2009/]The”>http://bwnt.businessweek.com/interactive_reports/undergrad_bschool_2009/)</p>
<p>Look, there’s a good way of posting in forums and a bad one. You’re a junior at Northeastern but you don’t say that. And you’re not even in Northeastern’s business school, but you don’t say that. You need to disclose your bias and why you’re posting.</p>
<p>My senior was deciding between NU and UMass Isenberg. The choice is a no-brainer for us. There is no way NU is worth almost $30k more per year than Isenberg (we are in state). Isenberg is amoung the best undergrad business programs in the country - certainly as good if not better than NU, Bentley, Babson, and many more.</p>
<p>Happily attending Isenberg with no loans after graduation.</p>
<p>Thus why I thought very appropriately mentioned nothing about NU. I even suggested other schools for them to look into. I honestly had no idea UMass had a business school (thus making clear that i am no expert), but thought that it may be telling that they do not make it onto a ranking of undergraduate business programs. I think rankings are crap, but not even making the list says something.</p>
<p>You also are an alumnus of Umass so I dont understand why you think that you can be objective, but do not think that anyone else can. People give biased opinions on this board and I dont think any party involved will deny that. Its up to the decision makers to sift through the facts. I gave a table showing average admission scores, career placement, average salaries. I moved around a lot growing up and had never heard of umass’ business school. I know you have from looking at your posts. I see that you also like to call out people that dont agree with you. I think from now on ill just stick with facts.</p>
<p>swimchris: You don’t seem to know what you are talking about. UMass Isenberg is in the Business Week list of top 100 undergrad business schools if you read the whole thing. Read the entire Business Week ranking link you posted. Trust me, I’ve lived in MA my entire life. NU is just a so-so school. Not long ago, a huge commuter school with an open admissions policy.</p>
<p>I am putting cost out of the picture, because due to scholarships and co-op at northeastern, the costs are comparable.
I would like to acknowledge those of you saying that Northeastern is a so-so school, and Isenberg is one of the best in the country. It seems like this is the response from most adults, but why would NU be ranked 33 by business week and Umass only 75ish?</p>
<p>Dude, I went to Yale many years ago. I have children of college age. Fact is you somehow found a thread that mentioned Northeastern and came in, dumped on the school whose forum this is and didn’t say that you go to Northeastern.</p>
<p>MA_mike, I think ratings are garbage and, since you’re interested in business, I suggest you read the methodology - on BusinessWeek’s site - and find the holes. </p>
<p>Here are a few. Student surveys count for 30%. What exactly do those mean about quality? There’s a relation but how strong is that correlation? The economist in me says the responses from a group paying more for school may well be quite different. I have a number of other correlation issues, but they add up to a general uncertainty that isn’t reflected in the numbers. Let’s say the correlation is .3 to quality or even .5. Um, what then does that mean? That it may be meaningful?</p>
<p>Recruiter surveys count for 20% and that, one can argue makes more sense, but then look at how they calculate the scoring and you have to wonder how that data works. For example, let’s say one responder recruits in an area with relatively few business programs and another where there are many, so a program in one region may be “better” than one in another region but it would look the opposite. I also question how they put the data together to make score, but let’s move on. </p>
<p>They look at “academic quality” by measuring a few basic metrics. Ok. That’s just a way to stick some “data” in the calculation. They rely on what the schools say their starting salaries are. Do schools list every starting salary or do they selectively edit or even lie? The incentives are to distort the data to make yourself look better. Let’s say you cut out your grads working temp or part-time or even non-profit - though BW says they ask for the median so they don’t penalize n-p salaries. This self-reported measure is 10%.</p>
<p>The next one is a little freaky: 10% for a limited set of feeding to MBA schools. This may be the most valid measure. </p>
<p>So next, does BW provide the raw data? No. Do they give the score breakdowns by category so you can see if school A is better overall or is skewed in a couple of areas? No. It gets better. They say the difference between x and y is significant but they don’t define what that means. Are they doing regression? Beats me. What are the raw score differences? They don’t say. What is the spread and how “significant,” using the real definition of the word, is that?</p>
<p>Each one of these categories has meaning, which means it has error. If you put these errors together, any ranking would have a + or -, as in this school is ranked 50 with a standard deviation of 5 (which means it could be 40 to 70 in the 2 deviation confidence interval). </p>
<p>One final point: how much do these rankings reflect the answer imposed backwards? It seems clear the best way to move yourself up in the rankings is to increase the number of student favorable responses. Next would be to fiddle with your reported data. BW says they got 27% back from students. How many are encouraged to do it? How many are gaming it because if you get more feedback you potentially raise the value of your own degree? The incentives are not aligned toward honesty. (That is one reason why I point out marketing programs by schools; they’re trying to create a buzz that generates feedback to surveys that generates higher ranking. How much is the perception real and how much is it massaging?)</p>
<p>I’m not saying that rankings are utterly useless but that they’re over-valued - and shockingly so by students in business fields where basic quantitative reasoning is important. There’s a clear “prestige” difference between Harvard and Pace but is there a meaningful difference between #85 and #56? And if so, what is that meaning? The idea the ratings sell is that x school leads to y money and z career but that isn’t the way it actually works for an individual. The ratings have such ambiguity and uncertainty built in that the correlation between the individual and the outcome ratings imply is necessarily pretty darn low. By contrast, we can say every person will die, an event with probability of 1, meaning it’s inevitable. What is the correlation factor for an individual from these rankings? .12? .25? It’s going to be low. It may be higher for the schools at the very top of the list, but that may reflect a variety of factors, including coming from wealthier families and enough more intelligent on average that it matters.</p>
<p>Great conversation! I have to say, I had the same choice and I selected UMASS and have been extremely happy with the choice. NW is s good school, but UMASS, in my opinion, is a great business school. They are now raked 45th nationwide (for what that is worth).</p>