<p>Not to mention there is geographic diversity. Just living on the opposite side of the country of a school you apply to (esp small schools) can greatly increase your admission chances. And, if you live in North Dakota, the world is your oyster.</p>
<p>"overcoming social stigmas and economic inequalities "</p>
<p>ok, not all minorities are poor. i know plenty of rich minorities who can afford tutors, test prep, every possible advantage. they dont need or deserve any other advantages due to affirmative action.</p>
<p>overcoming social stigmas? ok, the fact that a lot of blacks don't do well on the sat has no effect on whether a black person will geta good score or not.</p>
<p>You might not have noticed, but a black man was elected president. so much for social stigmas.</p>
<p>look, this is discrimination against nonminorities. the thing is that geographic diversity and legacy diversity aren't racist. both blacks and whites can benefit.</p>
<p>this "affirmative action" s racist against whites and asians.</p>
<p>^ just curious but what do you consider black? do you consider a person 1/8 black and 7/8 white being black? I know some people who are not even a quarter black but mark black/ AA when filling out apps solely for Afirmative Action.</p>
<p>In Obama's case, why do people consider him a black man? He's just as white (mom's white)
as he is black. I would say he's bi-racial, but why do we only call him black when addressing his race? I mean, I seldom hear people or the media calling him bi-racial, mixed or white.</p>
<p>^^^ theendus....you really need to show a link that proves that "affirmative action" for black students at top schools still exists...I'm sure a google search should do the trick....maybe it does, but I'd like to see which schools you can show that it exists. </p>
<p>URM status is what's weighs an application. Schools want diversity - black, white, Thai, Kurd, Indian, an international from Holland, you name it...the schools in America are serving a global society now. It's just not a black issue. If you want to fight it, you have to hold it against all minorities ....this is not an SAT competition.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Particularly, it is depressing to read these discussions in a forum primarily populated by supposedly intelligent people, such as CC. Perhaps these posters aren't all that bright after all... Perhaps they're just good testers?
[/quote]
^^ Swedefish</p>
<p>I am guessing, but I imagine there are many people who find this board, skim the chances threads, see that they pale in comparison, and are looking to blame something or someone outside themselves for their own inadequacies. When they end up at a school less than spectacular they can blame blacks and "AA"...</p>
<p>
[quote]
ok, not all minorities are poor. i know plenty of rich minorities who can afford tutors, test prep, every possible advantage. they dont need or deserve any other advantages due to affirmative action.</p>
<p>overcoming social stigmas? ok, the fact that a lot of blacks don't do well on the sat has no effect on whether a black person will geta good score or not.</p>
<p>You might not have noticed, but a black man was elected president. so much for social stigmas.</p>
<p>look, this is discrimination against nonminorities. the thing is that geographic diversity and legacy diversity aren't racist. both blacks and whites can benefit.</p>
<p>this "affirmative action" s racist against whites and asians.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Not all minorities are poor, but schools with few minorities attending will attract little minority applicants, hence the need for flyouts or Affirmative action.</p>
<p>I don't understand your point. Have you taken into consideration that a large percentage of blacks (including Latinos and southeast Asians) live in impoverished, inner-city areas? This can account for why "blacks" do not do well on the SAT.</p>
<p>Did you see the type of criticism Obama had to go through because he was "black"? There are many social stigmas that exist int he country based on race. People claimed that Obama was Muslim (not that there is anything wrong with that) and likened his name to Osama Bin Laden. If you didn't watch the news there was some racial profiling going on with Obama.</p>
<p>Affirmative action is very important in schools. Depending on which schools you apply to (LACs come to mind), AA is crucial to get black, latinos, and even asians aware about the school and apply. If there were no AA, many schools would end up having a disproportionate number of whites and minorities. </p>
<p>One final note I would like to put out there is that the SAT is just one aspect of a test. Myself being an Asian student, I got a 2000 on my SATs but am applying to "prestigious colleges". On scores alone I would compare to appear equal to a nondescript white student who scored 2200. However, you need to look at the contexts of how they got a score. Compare the white student who lived in a well-off neighborhood with loads of money for texts and materials to be able to score a 2200 to myself who lived in an impoverished neighborhood, but had to work harder to get more resources and had a vast disparity of school materials compared to the white student. Who looks more impressive? While some schools prefer the white student, many others would prefer the student who has pushed socioeconomic and racial boundaries to achieve at his/her full academic potential. SATs are only one side to the story.</p>
<p>When a person has been in a minority's shoes (regardless of Asian, black, latino, etc.) or understand more of the social constructs of our society to idolize and embody the "white person" image, he or she will understand. There still exists racial stigmas, its just more subvert.</p>
<p>There are less rich minorities then there are poor. So by you opposing affirmative action, you're shutting opportunity from those who don't deserve it, but at the same time, you're suppressing it for those who do.</p>
<p>I'd like you all to know that the reason the OP made this thread is because he saw my comment in another post and PM'ed me, determined to prove to me that all black students have an easier time getting into universities than white students because of affirmative action. For some reason, he has a vested interest in "proving" that affirmative action is racism against white students and that black students (every single one, in his words) have a large advantage in admissions.</p>
<p>I asked him to provide me with empirical research articles and he linked me to a couple of threads on CC, including this one (with the note that "this thread will show you that everyone agrees with me") and gave me a couple of (mostly broken) links to anecdotal evidence, some from people who actually worked in admissions.</p>
<p>First of all, I'm laughing because this thread proves exactly the opposite of what he thought it was going to prove -- not everyone agrees with him, and apparently a lot of you understand affirmative action a lot more than he does. I made many of the same points that you did, and all he did was rant at me that I didn't have any reading comprehension and that I needed to read the passages he sent me again (despite the fact that I already told him I had been studying this and have had colleagues that studied this phenomenon for years).</p>
<p>I'm also curious to know why he cares so much. Considering that none of the top colleges have a 13% share or higher of black students -- it usually hovers around 8% -- and white students are technically overrepresented at most of the top schools (where they make up 80% or more of the population, when currently they only make up 65-70% of the U.S. population) obviously the advantage that black students have in admissions, if any, is small.</p>
<p>I also find it kind of funny that he thinks that because a black President was elected, suddenly social stigma based on race has disappeared.</p>
<p>May I ask theendusputrid this question: in which context is this AA appalling to you? If you're speaking of ultra-selective college admissions, I'll posit the following:</p>
<p>the ultra selectives, generally private colleges, write their own rules on whom to admit -- not just metrics like GPA/SAT, etc. This quote from another post seems to be getting some traction today:</p>
<p>Dean Brenzel of Yale admissions said " It is not well understood that we are not aiming to pick out the best candidate in a particular school or from a particular area, as measured by some predetermined criteria. Rather, we are trying to assemble the most varied and most interesting class we can from an extremely diverse group of close to 25,000 outstanding applicants. We do not aim to compare a student primarily with other students from his or her school; we look instead for students who will bring something of particular value to the entering class. Second, few people seem to grasp the weight given to various aspects of the application, though this can vary considerably by institution. For us at Yale, for instance, standardized test scores generally do little to differentiate applicants, because virtually all our applicants score very well. Most important to us are the transcript and the school and teacher recommendations, which students can do little to influence once it comes time for an application. We also look closely to see where and how a student has developed talents or engaged the school or community outside the classroom. Essays and interviews round out an application, and we look here mostly to see whether they convey information that enlarges or enhances, while remaining consistent with what we hear from counselors and teachers. "</p>
<p>Certainly you aren't proposing that they strictly line everyone up to a scale, right? The very fact that schools like Yale cherry pick from an excellent pool is what allows them to maintain their excellence. And they purposely don't pick just the highest academic achievers. Is this wrong? Well society doesn't seem to think so. They and peer institutions continue to practice this and coincidentally, they all share the same "prestige" and "high rankings" (for what they're worth).</p>
<p>The fact is 90% of colleges in America DO admit solely based on academic performance. It's just that none of these are in that upper crust of "top" schools. The fact is you can't have your cake and eat it too. </p>
<p>If you get fifty Chinese girls who have top scores/GPA, play tennis and piano across your desk but you get a Dominican applicant who succeeds in a tough school district -- I can tell you which one is going to get my attention. (BTW, I'm the FATHER of 2 of those Chinese girls).</p>