Just spent the weekend with the in-laws. They are very successful Baby Boomers who went to Ivy and other highly selective colleges as did their children, nieces, nephews, etc. When I told them that S18 (their oldest grandchild, who has excellent test scores but mediocre grades at a top private high school) wasn’t likely to apply to any Ivies and listed “Target” schools they’d never heard of, they looked at me like I shot their dog.
I would love to try and get them up to speed on the context. Can anyone suggest a good article that provides context for college admissions reality in 2017 (especially as it compares to 1987 and 1957)?
Can you just look up this year’s admissions stats for the family’s alma maters? Are any of those places (admissions issues aside) good fits for your kid? My ivy and ivy-peer alma maters truly had nothing to offer Happykid. Her cheap-o home-state publics were significantly better for her career goals.
This is a good early warning sign that you need to curtail the amount of college discussion with anyone who is not your kid, a GC, or an adcom.
We found that the “outside world” had a whole lot of opinions. One kid’s top choice? “A horrible place, I’d never let my kid apply there”. Another kid’s top choice? “Gee, that sure sounds like a safety school to me”. Another kid comes back from a weekend visit, all excited, and the response from a moronic relative, “Didn’t you hear there’s a suicide epidemic there? Don’t you love your kid?”
And opinions about geography, why kids should stay close to home for college or why kids should go far away. Why we were idiots to even consider a private college or why we were idiots for not having moved to State A for their exceptional flagship University B when we moved a few years earlier. Why single sex colleges are the very best for an ambitious young woman; why a college with a skewed M/F ration was the very best for a young man; etc.
You cannot win. Everyone has an opinion and everyone knows your kid, your finances, and the current state of play in admissions odds better than you.
So it’s great that you want to educate the in-laws. But the bigger message here is that you need to either curtail the college talk or develop a really thick skin. Believe me- you’ll need it.
Either don’t talk about it, or ignore the negativity. At times, talking about an unusual school can provide positive info when you run into an alum or someone whose brother or nephew attended the same school. I found it pretty impossible to not discuss with parents of my kid’s friends/classmates as it was the topic of discussion later junior and senior year. Some folks were very ignorant and mean-spirited but most were interested and supportive of my kid’s choices. It all depends on your own personality, what your kid wants, and who you are talking too.
“I know a kid who graduated from that college and she had to go back to her old job at the Gap because her degree is worthless” followed by “I’d only let my kid go to that college if he agreed to major in accounting, the other departments are terrible” with the kicker of, “that’s a great school for nursing but why would you let your kid go there otherwise?”
Seriously- OP you are at the very beginning of a LOT of free (and mostly ignorant) advice.
I agree that, generally, you cannot win with anyone but yourself, but these are smart people who love their grandchildren and I trust them to figure it out eventually. They were sincerely sad about this new reality and I would love to help them understand it better.
I wouldn’t start showering them with articles, I would just let the grandparents know that admissions to Ivy and equivalent schools have become crazy as more high school students in the US and many more from abroad are now applying to colleges. Tell them that the very top level colleges are accepting only 5% - 10% of applicants these days. Let your in-laws know that you have all done your research and you feel you and your kids are best off looking at these other very fine schools that your child has a chance to be admitted to. And finally, I’d ask them to support the choices that you and their grandchildren are making.
And if that doesn’t work, let them know that if they had only built a building, given a seven figure donation, or perhaps even endowed a chair at their college that it could have helped you S’s chances at their alma mater!
If you find one @pantha33m I’d be interested in seeing it too. I agree with other posters. There is nothing you can say, including facts, to some people to make them understand the reality of the college choice these days. My mother is mortified that we are considering state flagship as S18s financial safety and probably most likely option. In her mind, anybody can get in there. So I went through the schools Common Data Set with her and showed her the acceptance rate, the relatively high ACT scores of admitted freshman, etc. Her response was that the ACT must have dumbed down the test.
I agree that it’s best to avoid discussing our children’s college search with others for all the reasons above. That being said, the admission stats outlined on the Brown website gave me a reality check last year when helping my D create a realistic college list last year: https://www.brown.edu/admission/undergraduate/explore/admission-facts
Those hard numbers just helped me realize how much of a lottery admission to the top schools really is. Maybe this would also help your in-laws understand the reality of the current admissions environment.
I like the part of that article where it states that for too many people acceptance into UVA or U of C is a conclusive measure of someone’s worth. That’s crazy, but that’s the messaging kids keep hearing. Once the grandparents realize this, given how supportive you’ve portrayed the Grandparents as, they can get on board with the right messaging and act as a counterbalance to the messaging your child will hear from everyone else. Our kids are getting bombarded with this, whether we are there to stop the questioning or not, so the more our kids hear the correct messaging from people he/she loves and respects, the better.
Yes, you will get negative reactions no matter what schools your son considers. When I told my dad, a professor, about a young man going to Dartmouth, dad said, “Why would he go to a little school like that?” Hee hee.
That’s a very nice article…but don’t expect it to change the minds of these relatives. It likely won’t have an impact…at all.
We have a family member right now and grandparents are encouraging the kid to look at some high stats schools…not elite…but still high stats. The kid got under 1000 on the first SAT attempt. I suggested they look at test optional, and some other hidden gem schools…but they are listening to the grandparents.
Great article, @pantha33m. I have the feeling that your in-laws will be the kind of people who will absorb its message and act accordingly.
I realize that some people have to do it, but I am saddened by the posts urging you to cut off your son’s grandparents. You had to learn about today’s realities, and so did we. So can your son’s grandparents.
I strongly doubt that payscale figures are what concern them, btw.