Isolated Campus Vs Exciting City

Parents Forum
1

<p>I had a discussion this week with a young man in the throes of making a college choice who really likes a great school that is "in the middle of nowhere"! He likes everything about the school but is concerned that there will be nothing to do because the campus is so isolated--afraid he'll be bored. Would like to transplant this almost-ideal-school-for-him to a metro area. </p>

<p>He's also considering a great school in Boston where he sees himself enjoying all that great city has to offer him. The Boston school doesn't have the same appeal for him, but he really likes the city. </p>

<p>I explained that school No. 1 is not a commuter school; it will have activities on campus during the weekends; students will bond, leading to great friendships; that there will be organized trips to cool places; that there won't be distractions and he'll be able to concentrate on his education, etc etc. He's having a tough time understanding that the small, isolated campus can be a great place. He doesn't want a large student population. Thinks access to a large city guarantees lots of things to do. </p>

<p>Here's my question: How much of a role does the location play? Of the students who are on those more isolated campuses, do they regret not going to a more 'exciting' place--not the school, but the place?? Of the students who are in the "happening places" (MY word choice, not his!) does the place have a significant impact on the college experience? </p>

<p>Common sense dictates this will vary greatly, but thought this group would offer some valuable info for his decision.</p>

2

<p>S is at a "middle of nowhere" school, 5-6 hours from anyplace with "action". However, am continually amazed at the quality and number of artists (visual, performing,) theatre companies, musicians, speakers, etc. who come through the campus. Plus there are a ton of outdoor opportunities just outside the door. He has had a great college experience.</p>

3

<p>Panhandlegal, last year D attended school that was "in the middle of nowhere", "liked everything about the school" and was NOT concerned that "there will be nothing to do because the campus is so isolated"</p>

<p>Mistake. For her. </p>

<p>Within the first semester, D was craving the "hustle and bustle" of our population 100,000 town. </p>

<p>She ended up transferring to NYC and is now happy as a lark. Even when there isn't anything "to do" she simply steps outside. Period. And because she is in the city she's been able to find a p/t job (off campus; 20 hrs a week) greatly widening her social circle. At her "isolated" campus, she couldn't get more than a 4 hr a week job (and that was on campus...nothing nearby at all).</p>

4

<p>Really depends on the kid---what have they grown up around, what kinds of activities/interests do they have? D1 really, really wanted to be in a metro area. She LOVES living a 30-min metro ride from DC. Lots of kids at her campus never go into the city at all. For her, however, having the option was very, very important.</p>

5

<p>I think it depends too how how isolated the school really is. My son is at a large state U "in the middle of nowhere" - but it has a bustling college town and many activities. He walks everywhere, doesn't need a car. He loves it. We live in the suburbs and you need to drive to most things around here. Plus the campus has a lot of community - kids don't go off in lots of different directions to bars and such (urban schools like Emory or GW seem to have that dyanamic)
Down sides are that he can't get an internship on campus - although there are plenty of companies who recruit from the cities that are 3 hours away. Part time jobs are plentiful though. I also think there is more drinking on isolated campuses - especially those in cold climates!</p>

6

<p>Good middle-of-nowhere schools do import plenty to do -- lecturers, entertainers, etc. But the school is still in the middle of nowhere and for some kids, despite a wealth of activities brought in to an isolated campus, the isolation factor is a deal breaker. That was the case for my daughter, who transferred from a rural LAC to a mid-sized urban/suburban university. If your friend is concerned he'll be bored, he can rest assured that rural LACs do not expect students to count ears of corn or cows in their spare time. But if he's concerned that he'll miss the urban buzz in general, that's something to think about.</p>

7

<p>Depends of the kid. For mine it was a huge consideration. He dismissed any place he deemed "boring". He picked Cal which is perfect for him in that regard.</p>

8

<p>Penn State comes to mind,however, it has a large campus and many festivities.</p>

9

<p>The statistics show that there is more drinking on campuses in the middle of nowhere. However, I do feel that the students bond more when they are in a small school where everyone stays on campus. I went to Rice and it was perfect for me - a small, non-commuter school where everyone bonded, yet where there were off-campus activities if we wanted them. Others have said that a large school (like Penn State) in the middle of nowhere is like its own town where there is always plenty to do. The worst, IMHO, would be a commuter school in a sleepy suburb like UC Irvine. My son believes like your friend that big cities are best. He only has one school on his list that doesn't have ready access to a large city.</p>

10

<p>A close friend is a professor at a school "in the middle of nowhere." He thinks its isolation is one reason for the high use of drugs/alcohol on campus (even though the school is a highly regarded LAC.) He sees kids thrive in the tight-knit community -- but also outgrow the school pretty quickly. His own Ds are at a huge campus. His reasoning: isoalted LACs are schools kids grow out of. Urban big schools are schools kids grow into.</p>

11

<p>My daughter attends a large middle-of-nowhere school.</p>

<p>She finds plenty to do. At a large, isolated campus, there are usually plenty of activities scheduled. But she is only a freshman. It is possible that the campus and surrounding community may come to feel too small for her in upcoming years.</p>

<p>And yes, there is a lot of drinking at her campus.</p>

12

<p>H, D and I are all graduates of Oberlin, so that's one of those great LAC's with plenty to do and no need to leave campus to do it. It's a large LAC with 2800 undergrads. They have a problem of people leaving after freshman year due to the isolation, which is why they emphasize "Why OBerlin?" to be sure the student recognizes the strengths of the resources, weighed against he weakness of the location, and is the kind to become active and involved.</p>

<p>S went to Amherst, just l800 students but must add on all the other Events from the Five College Consortium. SO alltogether, those 30,000 or so students are like one university in a rural/suburban area. Maybe that resembles a semi-isolated university, not LAC, thanks to the consortium of 5 schools. </p>

<p>They found things to do all the time, several events each night; one at 8:00, another at l0:00, something else at midnight with friends...Both are people-oreinted, creative and join things rather than seek packaged entertainment. Actually they are among the college entertainers (in the performing arts), so those rehearsals and performances took up all their weekend energy and many weeknights.</p>

<p>In our house from an early age we said "boring" was the B-word and they learned if they said they were bored, our answer would be, "That's a shame. What are you going to do to change that?" implying it was theirs to fix, not ours.</p>

<p>To us as parents, "boring" is an attitude, not an objective reality. Sometimes those who are bored are boring. Maybe that's harsh, but we taught that up largely because we are not wealthy enough to travel widely, so a day in the backyard had to become as fascinating as one in Paris. </p>

<p>After college, both kids moved immediately to cities of their choice. One's in NYC, one's in Providence RI. The one in Providence misses Oberlin with "so much to do" and is getting used to finding her way into more urban escapades. The move to NYC from Amherst went well because he was so resourceful and humane (skills developed AT Amherst) that he could move all alone to that city and not get stomped by it. </p>

<p>I did know students at Oberlin who pined for "the city" if they came from NYC suburbs, while the actual city kids liked the huge contrast to living where they could see the stars.</p>

<p>Finances are also of concern for some. If your kid goes off to an Oberlin, Williams, Skidmore, Bennington...don't you know it's very helpful when their college EC entertainment is free for four years. To hear a faculty concert or student choir and then go out with others to ice cream or the student-programmed entertainment cafe costs about $5. To go out for a professional show followed by a bar costs closer to $50 for the evening, depending on their crowd. </p>

<p>If someone was that unhappy at an isolated school, though, I'd sure undersand they'd want to transfer to a larger city. I think it's almost an innate quality, and if you find a campus "boring" as a freshman you're not going to unlearn that response, you just have to move elsewhere.</p>

<p>I don't think it's wrong to say if you're financing an undergrad education, that they can use those four years to prepare to move to an exciting city for the rest of their lives. Anyway, my own kids embraced their places and felt amply entertained there.</p>

13

<p>My son is at a school in an "exciting" city. There are murders, sexual assaults and robberies all the time. His computer was stolen this past week with his entire semester's work on it (from his room in an off-campus house). I wish he had picked the "middle of nowhere" school and so does he.</p>

14

<p>I think this thread has rung the changes pretty well on this topic. Urban: lots to do, but campus tends to be centrifugal, energy gets pulled away from campus. Also, in some cases, fewer students living on or near campus, more commuters. Rural: close knit, more spirit, more things happening on campus (and they are better attended). But it can get tiring and claustrophobic at small schools, and maybe even at large ones. Lots more drinking culture. But apart from the drinking, fewer options also means fewer things to spend money on, and fewer differences among the students based on wealth.</p>

<p>My kids -- who are/were city kids -- would barely even look at the isolated schools. Their parents forced them to, to some extent, and they appreciated how the colleges themselves generated energy, and how engaged the kids were. But their orientation was urban all the way.</p>

<p>I like the Amherst-Northamption version: Vibrant, non-urban community unto itself, with so many students that there is always a ton of student-oriented things happening. Or maybe Princeton/Stanford: the city is accessible if you want it, even on a whim, but not in your face, and the area around the school is not "isolated" in the least.</p>

15

<p>It depends on the student. Both of my kids chose urban schools. DS chose a VERY urban school with the city as its campus. DD's school is a traditional college campus but is in a city. They grew up in a very rural area, and wanted something different. They were of the opinion that the location of their college choice was AS important as any of the other criteria they were using. Their rationale..."we have to live there for four years so we should like the location." We agreed. Of course if they had liked a rural location that would have been right for them too. I will say...re: Boston. DS went to college there and it is a fabulous town for college students and young people in general. There is always something to do both on and off campus. It's easy to get to everything including the airport. It's easy to get to off and on campus events (at some rural places, it's almost impossible to get to anything without a car). Public transportation is outstanding. Having said that...I know plenty of kids who have attended Amherst, Bates, Colby, etc, and have found them to be wonderful experiences where the college itself became the hub of their activities. Different strokes for different folks.</p>

16

<p>I agree that it depends on the student and what their experiences have been before attending college . </p>

<p>As I have said many times over the past 4 years that I was the last person who would have thought that my "there's NYC and there's everywhere else" kid would have found her bliss in rural NH. She knew off the bat that she did not want her whole educational experience to take place on the island of manhattan (lived there, knows the city like the back of her hand). </p>

<p>She has plenty to do on campus, a great network of friends, has never been drunk (the big drinker at the small school is going to be a drinker no matter where they go, so it really becomes all relative) and hasn't been corrupted by the greek scene. </p>

<p>She knows that she is coming back to NYC (it's not going anywhere anytime soon) after graduation and welcomed Hanover as a nice little break from things. </p>

<p>The other side of the coin is a student who grows up in a small town and becomes overwhelmed by being in a large city, thinking that it is impersonal, too fast pace, lack of cohesiveness amongst the student body because every one can go out. </p>

<p>p3t brings up a good point about </p>

<p>
[quote]
Finances are also of concern for some. If your kid goes off to an Oberlin, Williams, Skidmore, Bennington...don't you know it's very helpful when their college EC entertainment is free for four years. To hear a faculty concert or student choir and then go out with others to ice cream or the student-programmed entertainment cafe costs about $5. To go out for a professional show followed by a bar costs closer to $50 for the evening, depending on their crowd.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>There is also a larger divide between the "haves and the have not" - it will be bad if your kid is socially isolated because they are "stuck" on campus on friday/saturday night because they don't have $$ to go out to dinner, a play, a club, etc. or to hop a cab because the bus or the train "takes too long"</p>

17

<p>My son is in rural IA and every presidential candidate is coming to him. He's having a great time! Just talked with him. Bill Clinton will be on campus tomorrow. He's seen Edwards , Obama and Biden in the past few weeks. Isolated is a state of mind.</p>

18

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<p>Certainly there are these costs. But both of my kids found that there were a LOT of "student offers" for many of the events in their college cities. They just checked the student center periodically for what was being offered. They could get event tickets for a very small amount of money through their universities. DS wanted to hear concerts every week, as often as possible (very expensive in Boston) so he got a job as an usher and went for free...oh and got paid too. City life can be VERY expensive, but it can also be an opportunity to do some of the city things for a fraction of the cost of retail...if the student looks carefully (and also doesn't expect to do these things every week). Even urban campuses have a LOT of things to do on campus every week...including movies, concerts, student and faculty recitals, dinners, plays, etc. And many of these student events are FREE for the students at the university...even at urban campuses.</p>

19

<p>The question is loaded with prejudice: I mean what kind of teenager would choose “isolated” over “exciting”? Unabomber II? :)</p>

<p>My son like Sybbie’s daughter grew up in mega-cities and assumed that his college would also be in a city. But when he started visiting something about the rural, insular campus spoke to him. He ended up doing four years at a college in a mountain village and now that he’s back living in a major city and taking full advantage of the excitement, he still misses the peace and serenity of the country.</p>

<p>I think the determining factor is what you like to do on your off time. If you’re addicted to malls, like to try a different restaurant every night, go dancing, or clubbing then being in the country may not appeal. </p>

<p>If, on the other hand, you like the natural beauty and clean air of the country; like to hike, trek, climb, ski, camp; like to focus on a small group of intensive friendships then you’ll fit in well at rural. If it’s a Northeast or Midwest school then having an interest in a snowsport can make a big difference as it can be a long, cold winter.</p>

<p>My son would usually get to New York or Boston once a term – either for a social event or a class related field trip. It was fun, it was exciting but he was always happy to get back to the purple valley.</p>

<p>I would note, however, that among the isolated colleges that he looked at there was rural and there was rural. Amherst, has a lot of distraction. Williamstown has a village with shops, restaurants and an arts community. Some of the other schools are really self contained – Hamilton and Kenyon for example. These are both beautifully situated but it’s a hike or a car-ride to any type “civilization” so it really helps to visit and compare</p>

<p>I would (respectfully) challenge the assumption that “The statistics show that there is more drinking on campuses in the middle of nowhere.” Statistics can be biased and extrapolated and there’s never been a reliable, apples to apples study comparing drinking across a range of colleges.</p>

<p>There’s plenty of drinking and other substance abuse at *plenty *of colleges, urban, suburban and rural. (Penn and BC are not exactly dry.) so I wouldn’t use that non-urban myth as a reliable criteria. I don’t mean to divert this thread into who drinks the most and why, but my son’s experience the rural = future member of AA equation is much overblown. </p>

<p>Same with the “you’ll grow out of it” fear for small colleges. Frankly I went to a large college (35,000 students and couldn’t wait to get out). My son and his friends on the other hand had wonderful four years with astonishing research, internship and employment opportunities. I asked this question of just about everyone I met at graduation and they all said they’d do it again in a heartbeat. The retention rate is among the highest in the country.</p>

<p>At the end of the day, it’s all about fit. </p>

<p>Panhandle, I hope your young friend has a chance to do an overnight at this rural school. Being there may just seal the deal one way or another.</p>

20

<p>"My son is at a school in an "exciting" city. There are murders, sexual assaults and robberies all the time. His computer was stolen this past week with his entire semester's work on it ..."</p>

<p>So, what part of being "Mom of Wild Child" confuses you (LOL)?</p>

<hr>

<p>"At the end of the day, it’s all about fit."</p>

<p>Amen.</p>