Israel-I think they have every right

College Confidential Community
41

<p>"Why do you reply like that? I HATE it when peole reply like that. It's like a challenge or something."</p>

<p>I reply like that because of your immature rants against me.</p>

<p>"Israel's airport attack was their decleration of war on Hezbollah."</p>

<p>That doesn't even make sense, why would they attack the Lebanese airport as a declaration of war on Hezbollah. </p>

<p>"Besides the point, if the Lebanese were too afraid to attack Hezbollah and stopped this from happening, who's to stop them from shutting down the airport?"</p>

<p>I don't know about being too afraid, but considering the fact that many civilians support Hezbollah because they helped resist the Israeli occupation, if lebanon had tried to attack Hezbollah after 2000, the country would again have plunged into civil war, which is why they wouldnt try to disarm Hezbollah.</p>

<p>"And although Hezbollah definetly can't finish Israel with a limited supply of ammunition, they have a small fighting chance to demoralize Israel if they got a constant payload."</p>

<p>Demoralize Israel? Israelis are extremely strong and aggresive,in no way would they be demoralized.</p>

<p>"Damn, if it wasn't for the slow dial-up, I'd give you a link when they sent the prisoners to Iran, which infuriated Israel and sent them attacking Beruit. You obviously forgot the news."</p>

<p>I didnt catch that, just post the link. Why would sending them to Iran prompt Israel to attack Beirut? The lebanese people in Beirut didnt send them to Iran, Hezbollah in the south did.</p>

42

<p>Damnit...you really love to fight, don't you? 'you're so immiture'....asssssssshoooooooole. Okay, i get it. You hate me. Am I Ugly? Maybe. Am I Stupid? Maybe. Am I Immiture? Not Really. Am I Evil? Definetly yes. Does that mean you have to act all high and mighty over me? HELLZ NO! Y'know what you need? An attitude adjustment. You are only in a public forum, for god sakes! You are arguing with me as if you are running for President against me or something. </p>

<p>And why don't you quote the whole thing while you are at it? Like the 1st one was answered RIGHT AFTER where you quoted....selective hearing......ARGH!</p>

<p>To the 2nd...well you just answered my question. FINALLY you didn't argue with me! There is a God! Maybe.....</p>

<p>Okay, the next question...if they had more accurate rockets and more of those accurate rockets, LoTS more casulties on the Israelli side would have been inflicted. (like say hundreds) To say the least, it would make Israel look weak. That's how.</p>

<p>Look, I said previously that using the type of shells Israel is using is too agressive...but *** are you talking about? Lebanese people...Hezbollah...I think you mixed up with many things I said, or something. You want an answer? Read my previous posts. Hey, you want a war, you got one. LETS GET IT ON! Right here on these forums, right now!</p>

43

<p>"Damnit...you really love to fight, don't you? 'you're so immiture'....asssssssshoooooooole. Okay, i get it. You hate me. Am I Ugly? Maybe. Am I Stupid? Maybe. Am I Immiture? Not Really. Am I Evil? Definetly yes. Does that mean you have to act all high and mighty over me? HELLZ NO! Y'know what you need? An attitude adjustment. You are only in a public forum, for god sakes! You are arguing with me as if you are running for President against me or something." </p>

<p>High and mighty? When did I act liek that? Attitude adjustment? You started with all the 'immature' rants against me, i think you need the attitude adjustment. Yes I am arguing with you, this is a debate, in debates you argue.</p>

<p>Me being selective? Yes i agree i have been, but so have you. Whenever I state things such as Israel bombing Beirut, when hezbollah is in the south (see post 41) and such, you never answer any of them. You are much more selective than me. I didnt respond to some things in your previous posts because i felt that i didnt need to. </p>

<p>"Okay, the next question...if they had more accurate rockets and more of those accurate rockets, LoTS more casulties on the Israelli side would have been inflicted. (like say hundreds) To say the least, it would make Israel look weak. That's how."</p>

<p>What does this have to do with anything. Was this about the demoralizing statement? If so, why would Israel be demorlized? If more Israeli citizens had died, the Israeli's would be more willing to fight.</p>

<p>"Look, I said previously that using the type of shells Israel is using is too agressive...but *** are you talking about? Lebanese people...Hezbollah...I think you mixed up with many things I said, or something."</p>

<p>What did I mix up? I was pointing out that not all Lebanese people support Hezbollah, and that this conflict will make more people start supporting Hezbollah. </p>

<p>"Hey, you want a war, you got one. LETS GET IT ON! Right here on these forums, right now!"</p>

<p>War? I want a debate, not a war. If you want a war go to Lebanon. </p>

<p>'Y'know what you need(mozillameister)? An attitude adjustment. You are only in a public forum, for god sakes!"</p>

44

<p>Hezbollah is probably not part of the Lebanon government, and I doubt that the civilians were given sufficient announcement that certain areas would be bombed. If Hezbollah knew the areas would be bombed, wouldn't he leave as well? Thus, it is only natural to assume Israel is bombing civilian homes without warning. Ignoring the fact that I would like Israel wiped off the map, I think most people would be happy if Israel tried to catch Hezbollah without killing half of Lebanon and randomly bombing civilians.</p>

<p>Crush these bloodthirsty Zionists and Hezbollah</p>

45

<p>Nope. They (Hezbollah) are making some sort of stand by staying in that part of Lebanon. Plus, those missiles have limited range as-is. To move them further north puts them in a worse position. They (Israel) warned the civilians enough. Many did leave. The ones who wanted to stay stayed. Simple as that.
Well, at least you pointed it out that you wouldn't mind that millions of people would die because they are evil 'zionists'. (since they should be wiped off the map, eh?) And who are 'Zionists'? <em>using Kevin Spaceys voice</em>Come on, say it. 'Zionists'. WRONG! You mean' those bloodthirsty carnivorous Jews'. Which would imply that, even though you never met me, you wouldn't mind if I was 'wiped off the map'.
I love you people.</p>

46

<p>I forgot about gggguuuuuugggggggguuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrruuuuuuuuuuuu's post.
you know what you need? A sence of humor. Your post SORELY has none! So souless....
Anyway,
The people who want no part of the conflict/don't support Hezbollah left that part of Lebanon by now. So, of course the people in Lebanon suppost Hezbolla...the ones who didn't already left the country. </p>

<p>Look, I don't disagree with you fully. I don't think Israel is 100% good...more like 70% compared to Hezbolla with 30%. The only thing that seperates Israel from Hezbollah right now is this:
Israel can give a rats a$$ about Lebanon now...and rightfully so because it's not their country.
Hezbollah, on the other hand, is Lebanese. It's on it's home turf...and it could care less about it's own civilians. I mean, they fire rockets in people's houses! Their people who they are supposed to represent. Part of the reason so many people have been killed is because they fire rockets in their own big cities so that many people could be killed. That's my big beef with Hezbollah.</p>

47

<p>"I forgot about gggguuuuuugggggggguuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrruuuuuuuuuu uu's post.
you know what you need? A sence of humor. Your post SORELY has none! So souless...."</p>

<p>Dude are you high?</p>

48

<p>I'm not high.
I'm just veeeeeeery woooooooozie....... :p</p>

<p>Just giving you a friendly tip on forum etiquette ;)</p>

49

<p>Regardless of the "right to invade" debate, one test that Israel's actions do not pass is the test of practicality. Their approach is probably as misguided and futile as the US occupation and invasion of Iraq - which has set the country on course to civil war. </p>

<p>Their murder of civilians is not only inhumane but is also stupid. Like one Lebanese man said, this kind of action will only incite more anger and hatred on the part of the Lebanese and thus will turn even the most moderate or pacifist Lebanese militant and will aggravate the Hezbollah problem by increasing their public support - in Lebanon and also in the rest of the Arabic world. As in Iraq, Israel's actions must cease because they have become an impetus to violence. Once this war "begins" it will never "end" until practically the entire nation is wiped out, and even then it will continue with the rest of the Arab world. Again, Israel has failed to account for the fact that they are attempting not to eradicate a traditional army fighting for a nation but instead a modern army fighting for an ideal. Just as the war on terror has no boundaries (i.e. you can be bombed anywhere), jihadist groups like Hezbollah, and al-Qaeda do not have contained armies with a clear set number of fighters - the US and Israel are fighting against groups with unknown but massive membership that is growing every day that the violence in Lebanon and Iraq continues. This war cannot be fought with only the traditional weapons of missiles and guns; it must be fought through the information highways like the Internet and with the use of information, or in other words, propaganda.</p>

50

<p>Hmmm... I suggested that Israel somehow try to make peace to prevent further hatred as well in one of my threads. Then the admins removed my thread...</p>

51

<p>I can see the average Lebanese civilian now after that attack that killed 30 or so children (I guess you could say aborted if you want to absolve Israel of responsibility) "Man, I wasn't too fond of Hezbollah before but now I hope they destroy Israel." </p>

<p>There are things that fundamentally make sense but don't translate into actual real world results, this is one of them.</p>

52

<p>"...whole infrustructure, bridges, airports, etc. Yes, they could be lying. They have purposely hit civilian vehicles as well, they bombed a ambulance that had a clear red cross sign on top of it. (saw that on CNN)"</p>

<p>Zing. Lebanese civilians trying to escape the carnage were stuck in place because of such bombings.</p>

<p>"Hezbollah had pledged the destruction of Israel
Hezbollah is being funded and directed by Iran, who's president has in the last few months pledged that the holloaust was not real and that he wants Israel destroyed.
Hezbollah STARTED this confloct
Hezbollah is PART of the Lebanese Government
UN REsolution 1559 (?) placed the responsibility on Lebanon to DISBAMD Hezbollah , they failed to do so
Hezbollah is TARGETING civillians (they just have inferior weapons)
Hezbollah uses civillian areas as sheilds"</p>

<p>Why the hell do you insist on rehashing bland talking points? I never said Hezbollah should be given sympathy. The issue at hand is Israel's protocol of engagement in combating Hezbollah.</p>

53

<p>"Their murder of civilians is not only inhumane but is also stupid. Like one Lebanese man said, this kind of action will only incite more anger and hatred on the part of the Lebanese and thus will turn even the most moderate or pacifist Lebanese militant and will aggravate the Hezbollah problem by increasing their public support - in Lebanon and also in the rest of the Arabic world." </p>

<p>Right. What's amazing was the Sunni response, including Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the Muslim Brotherhood, to Hezbollahs initial kidnapping. The Saudi government issued an unprecedented statement criticizing the foolishness of Hezbollah's kidnapping of the soldiers. What made the statement unprecedented was the lack of a corresponding criticism of Israel. Unforunately the killing of civilians in Qana has brought the street back on Hezbollahs side.</p>

<p>To put things in context, its necessary to realize 2 things. Hezbollah was influenced by both Syria and Iran; Iran to divert attention from it's nuclear ambitions and Syria to try and regain control of the Lebanese government. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. What has resulted is a war by proxy, with both Iran and America vying for a stake in the crisis. Eradicating Hezbollah's influence in Lebanon is going to be a difficult task.</p>

54

<p>I just wanted to point this out, I read this in an article, I'll put the link up later</p>

<p>It siad that Hezbollah fighters claim that they do not collaborate or mingle with civilians AT ALL. Why? Because other militant groups, such as Hamas and the PLO, have done so in the past, and many palestinians are paid off by Mossad and such to give tips and to help Israeli's find and kill key leaders. Hezbollah has realized this, and so they militant wing is totally separate from the political wing, and the militant wing never tries to stay or hide with civilians.</p>

55

<p>Ok Firewalker. let me paint it for you a different way:</p>

<p>Hezbollah cintrols over 20% of the Lebanese Parlament
Hezbollah has about 6,000 military personell
Hezbollah invaded Israel
The Lebanese government has ~100,000 soldiers in it's military</p>

<p>The Lebanese government has 100,000 soldiers in it's military, Hezbollah has 6,000. The Lebanese Government has the responsibility and the capability to control it's boarders, it choses not to. The Lebanese government is required to disban Hezbollah. It is capable of doing so, but it choses not to. It is more than capable, but it choses not to. This sounds like a "don't be bad" with a wink and a nod to me.</p>

<p>Using your logic that Hezbollah is only a small part of the lebanese government, therefore Lebanon should be beyond recourse is laughable. It is akin to a scenario where the United States would not be responsable for attacking a country because a Democrat president did it, but democrats only controll 20% of congress. Just as this would be an act of war by the US government, what Hezbollah did was an act of a fully functioning party within the lebanese government. Period, this is not a debatable fact. Therefore, the attack by Hezbollah was an attack by Lebanon. </p>

<p>Also, it is dispicable that Lebanon is allowing Hezbollah to use it's own citizens as sheilds. Are you so emotionally attached to this issue that you have not taken the time to think about this. What do you think would happen if the Texas national guard bombed Mexico and launched missles from residential areas inside San Antonio, while the President sat by with the federal malitia at his disposal and let it happened? This is very much what is happening in Lebanon, Hezbollah is firing missles from residential areas and the Lebanese government would rather wine and cry to the IN rather than sack up and put an end to it. Lebanon has the power to quell the violence, why is this fact lost. Come on, man, get some perspective.</p>

<p>Sorry for the typos, I am writing while cooking my 2 year old dinner.</p>

56

<p>Well, since everyone on this thread thinks that Hezbollah are little floating angels and that Israel is some kind of she-devil, here"s a token of my appreciation.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,19955774-5007220,00.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,19955774-5007220,00.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

57

<p>"Their murder of civilians is not only inhumane but is also stupid."</p>

<p>You could be talking about Hezbollah, who are targeting civillians. As a matter of fact, this, I am sure IS galvanizing the Jews.</p>

58

<p>"Hezbollah cintrols over 20% of the Lebanese Parlament
Hezbollah has about 6,000 military personell
Hezbollah invaded Israel
The Lebanese government has ~100,000 soldiers in it's military"</p>

<p>Could you provide a link to that, cause there seems to be dispute over how much control Hezbollah has in parliament.</p>

<p>In addition, Hezbollah's military wing is more or less separate from its political, similar to sinn fein and the IRA.</p>

<p>"The Lebanese government has 100,000 soldiers in it's military, Hezbollah has 6,000. The Lebanese Government has the responsibility and the capability to control it's boarders, it choses not to. The Lebanese government is required to disban Hezbollah. It is capable of doing so, but it choses not to. It is more than capable, but it choses not to. This sounds like a "don't be bad" with a wink and a nod to me."</p>

<p>First off, Israeli's couldnt get rid of Hezbollah in 18 years, there is no way Lebanon can. In addition, they Lebanese govt wouldnt risk plunging the government into another civil war.</p>

<p>"Using your logic that Hezbollah is only a small part of the lebanese government, therefore Lebanon should be beyond recourse is laughable. It is akin to a scenario where the United States would not be responsable for attacking a country because a Democrat president did it, but democrats only controll 20% of congress. Just as this would be an act of war by the US government, what Hezbollah did was an act of a fully functioning party within the lebanese government. Period, this is not a debatable fact. Therefore, the attack by Hezbollah was an attack by Lebanon."</p>

<p>I'm sure that the Hezbollah political wing did not go out into Parliament and announce that the militant wing is going to capture two soldiers. In addition, Iran and Syria are believed to have been behind that attack, not Lebanon.</p>

<p>"This is very much what is happening in Lebanon, Hezbollah is firing missles from residential areas and the Lebanese government would rather wine and cry to the IN rather than sack up and put an end to it. Lebanon has the power to quell the violence, why is this fact lost. Come on, man, get some perspective."</p>

<p>Hezbollah is located in the south, most of the south is more or less evacuated, if they set up rockets in residential areas, its a good chance that there are few to no civilians there. In addition, Israel has been purposely using cluster bombs, which not only targets the militants, but all the buildings aruond them. And on top of that, Israel has been bombing residential districts in Beirut, where the militant Hezbollah is not located. They claim to kill Hezbollah leaders, when in fact they only kill civilians.</p>

<p>Mozillameister:</p>

<p>Those pictures don't actually show Hezbollah shooting, they just show them posing. In addition, if the area is abandoned by civilians, as most southern lebanese towns are, they dont pose a threat to civilians.</p>

<p>And please, when someone retorts to this, respond to everything I have stated, do not be selective.</p>

59

<p>Tomslawsky, first of all, Hezbollah would definitely have a large representation in the Lebanese government. Shi'ite muslims make up 40% of Lebanon's total population and a significant portion of Shi'ite muslims support Hezbollah. But Lebanon's armed forces don't come close to 100,000. There are roughly 70,000, very poorly equipped soliders currently serving in the Lebanese forces...half of which are Shi'ite. If Lebanon were to try to disarm Hezbollah by violent means, I'd say that half of the army (the Shi'ite half) will leave the army and join Hezbollah. The situation would turn into a civil war which Hezbollah would no doubt win.</p>

<p>Secondly, Hezbollah isn't using civilians as human shields. That's what simple minded people with absolutely no knowlege of Lebanon are led to believe. It is a load of BS. Lebanon is 80 miles long by 40 miles wide and a total population of over 4 million people. There isn't a single square mile in Lebanon that doesn't have a city or town. Where do you suggest Hesbollah sets up its camp? No matter where they fight, there is bound to be civilians. </p>

<p>Finally, Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization. Last time I checked, it was Israel who invaded Lebanon without provocation and it has not left Lebanon since....and I am referring to the 1982 invation. Hezbollah's military wing was created after the invation of Southern Lebanon in '82 and not before. So Hezbollah is purely a freedom fighting group that wants its lands back.</p>

60

<p>Yeah, yeah, yeah. Y'know why I didn't respont, guguru? Because you see no fault in Hezbollah and blame EVERYTHING on Israel. I mean, even America did things wrong in WWII. Those pictures were to show that Hezbollah are firing those rockets in major cities and even homes. You were arguing with me about that, remember? Oh yeah. I forgot. You guys have VERY short memory. Like you (Alexandre and guguru) keep mentioning 'Israel invaded Lebanon' like as if they just did it for no reason out of spite or something. If you remember the timeline of HOW it happened, you'd remember that it started with more tha just the kidnapping of 2 soldiers. (i.e killing 8 in the process, Hezbollah continually threatening the existence of Israel, Israel getting p!ssed just like any sane country would, etc...) </p>

<p>When you paint a rosey picture on Hezbolah, something's up with your thinking. </p>

<p>Let me ask you one question: What good has Hezbollah done during this whole conflict besides starting up and taunting Israel to fight them? Oh, and fire rockets at peoples houses and use those civilians as a shield of propaganda so if Israel would hit a missile launch pad, Israel would be condemned for it rather than the people launching the rockets in the fiirst place AND starting the war up...</p>

<p>I got to hand it to Hezbollah. This war is working perfectly to what they wanted: Universal condemnation of Israel.</p>