Issues for a Pre-Med

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

<p>So, I'm currently a sophomore at a top 20 University and am pre-med. So far, I've got a couple of concerns about how to go about getting into a medical school, the thing is, I don't mean any medical school, but one that is of the same sort of caliber as my undergraduate institution yet at the same time, I do not want to diminish what I want to accomplish at college. Here's my story tell me what you think:</p>

<p>I've already made a couple of no-no's in terms of pre-med, namely a C and C+ in Honors Gen Chem and Honors Calc IV, respectively during my freshman year. The thing is I wasn't exactly pre-med until midway through my freshman year when I had a unique volunteer experience in a clinic where I worked as a Spanish translator, and my desire for becoming a doctor really sparked. </p>

<p>Another thing is, I'm probably categorized as your run-of-the-mill over-achiever, although I cringe at the title. I do a lot of things on campus and I enjoy having a lot of things to do. I take extra classes (I'm planning on triple majoring in addition to doing pre-med coursework) each semester, all which go towards various major requirements, none of which by any stretch of the imagination are for "GPA Padding" if you will. I've always been interested in a variety of subjects, and therefore I am pursuing them as majors since I take extra classes. I also have 2 jobs, which I work about 8 hours a week due to work-study limitations, both are relevant to medicine/science. I play a varsity sport at a D-1 school also. Other things I do are I'm involved in a fraternity, I play an instrument in the university's concert band, I volunteer as a peer advisor to freshmen, and I translate spanish at a free-health clinic in the city. </p>

<p>That said, I really enjoy doing all of these things that I do yet, there is a harsh truth: my GPA. Granted, the classes that I take mainly have an median grade of about a B-, I have managed to make a 3.3 at the end of my freshman year. I just wanted to get everyone's input on my current situation. I really do want to get into a medical school comparable to that of my current undergrad school, but I know that my grades are not exactly up to par, yet I don't want pre-med to consume my college days. Is this simply a choice that I'm going to have to make if I want to get into a good medical school (I don't mean Harvard or Hopkins!)? Or can I still live the multi-faceted life that I do and still get into a school that I'm comfortable with? </p>

<p>Please let me know what you think!</p>

2

<p>Wow, that was really a mouthful you put out there. I honestly think you are taking on way too much. I think you need to reassess what your goals are and what is realistic. For example, why are you triple majoring? As for EC, you can do things outside of academia, but you need to put limits on it. Additionally, why are you so set on going to a medical school that is "of the same sort of caliber" as your undergraduate institution. The caliber of a medical school is up in the air to begin with.</p>

3

<p>Thanks for your response:</p>

<p>I know it might seem like that I'm doing too much, but for some reason, I feel that I work better when I'm under pressure. Perhaps I wouldn't know otherwise, so this is why I'm reconsidering my options. But would admissions officers see this the way you see it or the way that I see it. How can I explain my case that way? I abhor the term "overachiever"--it's not that I seek out all of these things to do just for the sake of doing them for a resume or whatever; I'm not competing against anyone else, it's because I truly want to do them, and it's a part of the dynamic character that I've developed, probably stemming from high school maybe even younger. </p>

<p>I want to go to a school that's on the same level as the one I'm at now because that's just a logical transition, I'm not going to work really hard at a top 20 university just to go to my state school (it's not good, let me tell you). I just want to get into somewhere that is "good" in my book, again I'm not looking for Harvard or Johns Hopkins. </p>

<p>I also want to get people's feelings on rigor of undergraduate institution along with GPA. I would hope med schools don't take GPA at face-value, but I could be wrong. My gpa isn't killer, but it's not too bad considering the B-(2.7) median-average that I have for my classes. I know that for most "good schools" the gpa falls somewhere in the 3.7's.</p>

<p>Thanks again,</p>

4

<p>I'm betting that a 2.7 median in science courses is pretty normal.</p>

5

<p>First of all, a 3.3 will leave you with a low chance of getting into ANY med school. Instead of worrying about what caliber of med school you will get into (they all offer excellent medical education), you should be worrying about just getting in.</p>

<p>Secondly, med school would prefer to see you focus on a few solid activities rather than spread yourself too thin doing too many activities.</p>

<p>Thirdly, a B/B- median in science courses is normal, even at supposedly grade-inflated colleges. Med schools don't really care if your school is hard or easy. I personally think differences between grading at different schools are overblown anyhow.</p>

6

<p>^ 40</p>

7

<p>Cool, I understand all of your points. </p>

<p>But,</p>

<p>I honestly think that the argument of all GPA's are created equal is complete bull. It doesn't make any logical sense. So if what you're saying about the median's being a B-, then that means take a high ranked school and take a low ranked school. So under the assumption that GPA's are taken at face-value, then this means that an A in the class at the school with the lower rank is better than a B at the school with the higher rank (and I'm saying like 50 spots difference, not a couple). That makes absolutely no sense at all. </p>

<p>I'm definitely going to ease up because I want to take this seriously, I just got my grades and they're not going the direction I want them to go. </p>

<p>Thanks for the help!</p>

8

<p>I'm not sure why you feel a B at a higher ranked school should be worth more than an A at a lower ranked school. Lower ranked schools (particularly state schools) are even more grade deflated generally and it's not a given that they necessarily offer an inferior education.</p>

<p>There are literally thousands of colleges. Adcoms don't have time to try to dissect grading differences between colleges in order to equate one college's GPA to other. The best thing they can do is either take the GPA at face value or rely more on the MCAT. </p>

<p>And, keep in mind, most of the students interviewing at the kind of med schools you want to go to currently attend a Top 20 college. No exaggeration. When I interviewed at a top med school a couple of weekends ago, 80% of my interview group were from an Ivy, Berkeley, Stanford, Duke, WashU, or MIT. You can't differentiate yourself based on the prestige of your college.</p>

<p>So, worry about factors you can control. You should be aiming to have a 3.5-3.6 by application time. Good luck.</p>

9

<p>Right, I still have time to fix my GPA to that point, I realize that's what I need to get. </p>

<p>But, yeah a B at a high ranked school should be better, or ambiguously the same , at least, as an A at a low ranked school (not necessarily state schools, Michigan anyone?) It just makes sense, take the median student at both schools, they're obviously very different. So your average student at a high ranked school, is probably at the least, just as good as one of the better students at a low ranked school, that's all I'm saying.</p>

<p>And no, I'm sure they have no time to figure out which classes are hardest and where, but they can generalize, say maybe X many schools are deemed "harder" so they multiply their gpa by something or add a calculated factor to it, to make it fair. I'm pretty sure I've heard of some schools having a GPA multiplier or something like that. </p>

<p>I think prestige is one of the reasons why those kinds of people get the interviews as opposed to people from a lower ranked school, by your estimation, isn't that true then? If I were wrong about the inequality of GPA's, then wouldn't there be a pretty good mix of high ranked schools and lower ranked school applicants?</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
If I were wrong about the inequality of GPA's, then wouldn't there be a pretty good mix of high ranked schools and lower ranked school applicants?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So there's this exam they make premeds take. It's called the MCAT...</p>

11

<p>Top schools are going to be well represented because they have bright students to begin with. They also provide their students with many advantages such as research opportunities, smaller classes, etc. I'm not saying that there is no advantage to going to a prestigous college. I'm saying that there is not DIRECT advantage given by adcoms simply because of the fact you go to a prestigous college. If some kid from UC Irvine managed to find research opps on his own, good recs, and a 37 MCAT, then he has just as good a chance as someone from Northwestern with all of those things. In fact, adcoms may look favorably on the kid from UC Irvine because they realize it's much harder to get good research opportunities and recs than from Irvine. The benefits of attending a prestigous college come from the increased opportunities not from a conscious effort by adcoms to select for kids from prestigous colleges.</p>

<p>In your situation, even if we were to eleminate all state schoolers from the applicant pool, there will still be more than enough applicants from Top 20 colleges to drown you out. No matter how you look at it, a 3.3 from NU is not going to cut it at mid-tier or higher med schools.</p>

12

<p>NUraider,</p>

<p>I read that where you go for med school doesn't matter all that much in most cases. bluedevilmike can tell you why. Being from NU, I know how kids there often have unrealistic expectation as far as med schools go. But the reality is getting into top-20 med school is harder than getting into top-20 undergrad. It's really a different ball game.</p>

13

<p>
[quote]
bluedevilmike can tell you why.

[/quote]

<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/213924-why-go-better-med-school.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/213924-why-go-better-med-school.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
getting into top-20 med school is harder than getting into top-20 undergrad.

[/quote]

Not least because the top twenty undergrads probably have around 1600 seats each, while the top twenty med schools have about 110. And more than 7% of the freshmen at top twenty undergrads are premeds.</p>

14

<p>I don't think that you can assume that just because someone goes to a school like UC Irvine and has the same stuff as someone at Northwestern is a better candidate because they "worked" harder. If they realized that, then they'd realize that the kid at NU had to "work harder" to get better grades because "top schools have bright students to begin with". It's not a one way street, I actually would be surprised if they even stopped to think about that.</p>

<p>I wasn't saying top 20 med school, I think you guys took that too literally, I'm just saying not a po-dunk, no one's heard of the school, med school. You don't have to show me the math, I realize that it's a different ball game, I just don't want to end up in a place that is completely unheard of (that probably starts after #80 or so, maybe lower) so whereever I said exactly I wanted to go to a top 20 med school, please quote it, I'm just saying one that's recognizable in laymen's terms.</p>

<p>Also, I've already agreed to the fact that a 3.3 isn't good, apparently you have selective reading issues. I'm still 5 quarters til application time, so I'm just breaking a sweat.</p>

<p>I've heard that it doesn't matter either, but maybe it doesn't, but why go to NU just to go to some med school in Nowhere'sville? It's not a logical transition, if that were the case I would've gone to a state school and be done with it. The fact of the matter is, I'm not going to go from NU to somewhere on a completely lower level, I just want to stay on par for the course.</p>

<p>But now I have got some opinions to my situation and I'll sum them up in a few:
-raise gpa
-taking on a little too much</p>

<p>And I understand. Next quarter I'm easing up on the classes (just 5, not 6), I can't really do anything about my 2 jobs really, and I can't do anything about my sport either. I'm trying to be the "superman" i was in high school and it's catching up with me (maybe 3 science classes did that), I can't pull those moves anymore. Thanks a lot for you input, it means a lot!</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
why go to NU

[/quote]
</p>

<p>1.) Because many kids at bad schools don't get into any medical school all.
2.) Because you liked the environment.
3.) Because you're getting a top-notch education.</p>

<hr>

<p>
[quote]
whereever I said exactly I wanted to go to a top 20 med school, please quote it

[/quote]
I guess it depends on what your home state is.</p>

16

<p>I don't think using UC Irvine is a good comparison for amazing school vs mediocre school. UCI has a pretty intense bio program, has a fairly medium-high SAT range, and the bio program is FULL of Asian kids who may, um, skew the curve a bit ;) </p>

<p>A better comparison is Cal State wherever- commuter schools, low average SAT/GPA at admissions etc. The kid there applying for med school better be the brilliant one with no GC who ends up 4.0 and 37MCAT.</p>

<p>I think it is alot like the old UG question, should I take the honors class and get a B or the regular class for an A: you should take the honors class and get an A ;) There is no good answer for people who are on that borderline who are competing against the kids getting As in honors or getting 4.0 at Stanford.</p>

<p>I have a Berkeley kid and, yeah, there is no grade inflation. She is not fixating on her GPA, she is pursuing her classes one at a time, doing her best and doing her ECs, learning more about "doctoring" to determine if that is truly what she wants to do. Maybe she will end up w/3.5? 3.8? who knows, but she will do her best to be focused in each class knowing it makes a difference, yet not fixate on stupid meaningless details and what ifs.</p>

17

<p>
[quote]
I don't mean any medical school, but one that is of the same sort of caliber as my undergraduate institution

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's why I thought you meant top-20 med school. Sorry about that. :)</p>