185k seems like a very high income for most families. But when you think of it in terms of two income households it softens the view.
Two long term public high school teachers in my region at the age that would be paying for college would be in this range. Excellent incomes of course. But two think of public high school teachers as wealthy or even high income is not really the perception.
Or in my family it’s a state trooper and a social worker. With three kids. Private “need based colleges” aren’t an option for my nieces.
It has only been in recent times that private college education was even a consideration for most families. Historically it was there if you could afford it and a few legacies would get a scholarship and a campus job to make it work. I think even the most prepared family has that oh my goodness moment when the hard truth hits then about what they will pay for college. But that is a data point that drives the choices available. In reality, the concept is a very old one.
@momofthreeboys Excellent point! In my day (a million years ago, haha!), a good portion of my high school class didn’t even go to college. And those that did often went to the state U. Kids who went to private colleges, were either super wealthy, catholic, or got some sort of scholarship. Heck, even most of the wealthy kids went to State U’s, but they often got to go further away.
I finally read this tonight in my “college info browsing”…I was surprised at so many responses. Just like they say not go go grocery shopping when you are hungry you probably should not post to a forum like this when you are frustrated and pissed off. Thanks for the reality check guys. Yes its true…It was wrong to comment on someone else’s situation or be jealous or whatever. I would never want to trade my life and family for someone else’s situation as it’s true for the most part all my life I have been pretty blessed with jobs and opportunity. So yes I was whining or complaining which i know accomplishes nothing. That was truly ridiculous :>)
There is lots of useful information here and helpful people. Thanks for all of your comments. I am learning a lot.
OP, a lot of us feel certain ways. Can’t control how you feel. It’s what you say and what you do that counts.
The fact of the matter is that the most expensive schools are private schools. They are perfectly within their rights to charge whatever they please. No one has any rights to go to a private school. There are certain discriminatory practices that are not permitted, but even they happen in the college setting. Yeah, Catholic and other religious schools have their preferences.
People don’t seem to have this entitlement thing with private k-12 schools. We all seem to understand and accept that. They rarely give financial aid or scholarships too. Boarding schools? No one feels they should be feeding and housing their kids for free.
But, move into the realm of college admissions , and it’s a whole other story. It’s not fair that kids stuck and home and have to commute. Nowadays many students of all economic situations apply to the name private schools. At one time, all but the very poorest, very “smartest” paid full freight and looked down on scholarship kids. Things have changed a lot since then.
@cptofthehouse, you’d be surprised about what people expect in the way of financial aid for boarding schools. The same conversations about financial aid happen over at the prep school forum that happen here. These days boarding schools give very generous aid. They can’t give everyone a free tide, though, and inevitably there are parents who are shocked that the aid isn’t enough to make boarding schools affordable.
The portion of the population looking into boarding schools is very small. Sleepaway college, however, has become a common rite —right of passage. When it really isn’t.
Oh, I know, the slamming of expectations when families decide to send their kids to private schools, doesn’t have to be boarding school either. That a school would want money for their incredibly gifted kids. How rare it is to get merit awards.
This is written by faculty at NU. Quote “I once estimated all the various government benefits received by so-called private Princeton University were vastly greater (at least 10 times as much per student) than those conferred on a so-called public or state university, the College of New Jersey, located a mere 10 miles away. Is the public/private distinction meaningful in any real sense?”
If private schools don’t want to be accountable they can go the way of HIllsdale and not accept federal funds. Why are students at Princeton getting many more times government benefits as students at state schools? The average family income at Princeton is $186K. The average income at the stage flagship my kid is heading to is about 98K. It’s like endowing more benefit to the richer. Many of our politicians kids benefit from this model. The fact that pricing has been able to way outpace inflation is due in part to this funding.
I’d be totally in favor of cutting off our tax dollars on so called private schools and letting them actually go private. And financing our public options so everyone has a reasonably affordable EFC (like no more than 10% of income).
At a minimum, people who pay taxes can have an opinion about any school accepting federal dollars.
I am all for cutting tax benefits for the private schools and funneling them into the public ones. Yes, the private schools, as well as many private businesses and such do get government money. But there is still that differentiation. Some schools are hybrids that way, but a line of sorts is drawn.
If private schools are totally private, that would make them unaffordable to most of their students and create even more of a SES gap at the T-50 schools. Sure Princeton could give a 100% scholarship to all students, but most other schools can’t. Those Pell grants and student loans are figured into the aid package. Most schools do expect at least $5k from the family and students, have federal work study available. Students take the loans to pay that $5k, take the work study jobs, hope for SEOG or maybe a state grant.
Florida gives a resident grant to keep residents instate, but in private schools. There isn’t enough capacity in the public schools to accept all residents, the state wants to keep them and give them a benefit, so it gives residents in private schools 40% of instate tuition (currently about $3500/yr). The students are also allowed to apply for state scholarships and grants, both merit and need based. If private schools couldn’t accept those dollars, most students would go to public schools and that would squeeze students with lower stats out. Kids going to schools like Flagler or Florida Southern depend on Pell grants, the resident grants, Florida SEOG, Bright Futures to make a private school affordable. My daughter could only afford the private school because she could use all the grants from the federal and state government.
In the town I grew up in, Catholic school kids rode the same school buses we did and had government subsidies for lunches. If all those students had been dumped into the public school system, the town would have had to add more schools at all levels, especially elementary. It was cheaper for the public district (and fed government) to have those students in a private school and provide some of the services than to have them in public schools and provide all of the services.
How does funneling even more students into public colleges work when many are at their limits making it tough to get classes or graduate on time as it is?
Public schools (vs private) already get almost three times the number of the students heading to college.
That’s actually my point. Why are private schools that actually serve less students and generally those families considerably higher on the SES getting greater publicly funded resources?
I have no problem if a state decides subsidizing it’s private own options is worthwhile for their population. I would just prefer more people had truly affordable options available and that there were a clearer line between public and private. Because it’s actually not that clear right now given the money flowing into privates. I definitely feel that has contributed to pricing far outpacing inflation. There will always be wealthy people choosing elite schools.
I get the sense no one read the article I linked and what I was getting at so moving on.
Just to make sure I understand where you are coming from, do you believe his premise that we need to stop financing research at private universities.
While you "feel: that money flowing to privates has lead to price increases, the actual evidence is mixed. Researchers have both found and not found that changes in federal loan levels led to increases in tuition.
There are also studies that show that increases in tuition at state schools are the result of state governements lowering their support for higher education
To the OP, regarding your daughters friend… her life may not be as rosy as you think it will, can she afford the application fee or submitting her scores to these ‘colleges of her choice?’
Even if she is admitted to the college of her dreams can she afford the hidden costs? There are many articles outlining how the poor struggle at elite schools.
If she was admitted to any of the NE Ivy’s can she afford a coat? Can she come home on breaks? Will she feel deprived when she can’t keep up with the other students social circles or frequent vacations? Can she afford to eat when the dining room is closed? Will she find friend?
Being poor has many challenges involved with attending elite colleges.
Read the article good thanks. My only knowledge so far on this topic is the EFC calculators…where I can see what the impact is on income. For sure an “elite school” might not be the best fit but possibly a state school close to home would be better right? For me I don’t care if my daughter goes to an “elite school” seriously…just something that she is happy with From her perspective she does not know much about it other than was she overheard from other kids who really don’t know much.
I told her…its not the school…probably not even the teacher…I mean the bottom line is those hours that you spend in your study place with the books and laptop…and what you yourself learn by putting the time and work in.
No school or teacher in the world can do that for you.
Good teaching is a terrific thing - never a negative. Putting the work and effort in as a student is a critical need to do well. Being able to adapt to different teaching styles and quirks is a super good thing in a student, esp since it teaches life skills as well as the academic material. Too many students diss a prof (or teacher) because they don’t fit their idea of what should be good. There are less than stellar profs/teachers for sure (similar to any job), but not as many as some believe. If a prof/teacher gets both good and bad reviews (pending students), it’s almost always a style or quirk issue - not a quality issue.
I agree but what are the chances of first finding the college and then THAT teacher? It would be a matter of good luck IMO. Students also don’t get to choose their teaches. I read that in big research universities, you are not even taught by the professor but his TA’s…I just don’t think its something you can plan for.