It All Worked Out in the End!

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>I would like to start a new thread that will hopefully reduce the high anxiety level surrounding this forum. My D went through the extremely grueling MT audition/application process last year. It is an understatement to say that it was an extremely stressful year for the two of us. Everytime I read something new on this forum, I would start to rethink and question everything we did. Many people would tell me, "Don't worry, it will all work out in the end and she'll end up just where she's supposed to be." Well, I didn't really believe those words. I thought it was simply a platitude. </p>

<p>Well, my D did not get into any of the top MT Ivies and we both were initially devastated. Long story short, she ended up at one of her safety schools, Salem State College, and absolutely loves it! She is auditioning for their BFA Theater Performance program next week. They also offer a non-audition BA program with a minor in music. She is already involved with the student-run productions too.</p>

<p>Robert Redford is appearing at Salem State tomorrow so there was a small write-up in The Boston Globe last Sunday which mentioned that one of the reasons they brought him in as a guest speaker was to promote their "oustanding theater program." Salem State students consistently win awards at the American College Theater Festival as well. I believe that it is an "up and coming" program.</p>

<p>Not only is this college working out program wise, but it is also working out location wise as well. My D (and her parents) have the best of both worlds. She gets to live away from home but can come home whenever she wants to because it's only a 45 minute drive away. </p>

<p>Another plus is that many of the people with whom she did local community and regional theater are also attending Salem State so she has a lot of friends in the theater program.</p>

<p>Now I see everything so differently. My D is able to major in something she LOVES and is having a fantastic time! As other people have said several times in this forum, it doesn't necessarily matter where you go to college in order to make it in this business. I have no idea where my D will end up but I'm so happy that she's able to pursue her dream. Having worked as an academic advisor in a small college for five years, I know that there are no guarantees in life no matter what a student majors in.</p>

<p>One other thing. A very good friend of my D's who went to the same high school as her got into CAP 21 without ever looking at this forum, I believe. Her parents didn't either. She simply has that "it" factor and is extremely talented.</p>

<p>So, I hope this post will help those of you out there who are going through the application/audition process this year. Things WILL work out for you too in the end. You may not believe it now but it is true. My only words of advice would be to make sure you apply to some safety schools just in case, since the top schools accept such a tiny proportion of the many, many extremely talented students out there.</p>

<p>Good luck to all of you seniors out there and try to relax (a least a little bit :-)</p>

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<p>Congrats! I will probably be doing the process next year. Ahh</p>

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<p>Thanks for your post. I hope we continue to hear from others who took alternate paths as well!
Salem State sounds like it is worth a look too. So thanks for that too!</p>

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<p>Glad things worked out! That's such a great point though, about people ending up where they belong. I thoroughly believe that things happen for a reason, and every move I've had to make concerning my persuit of MT training has been for the best- even when I thought it was the end of the world at the time. I'm going through the application/audition process like SO many other kids this year, so I'll keep what you said to heart while I'm out auditioning- it'll help with the nerves and is a reassurance to say the least!</p>

<p>Best of luck to your D at SSC!</p>

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<p>SeaShells29, thank you for your post. It really reaffirmed what I believe to be true. I'm so glad your daughter is happy! I do think that everything happens for a reason and eventually life works out the way it's supposed to (even if we don't realize it at the time). At this point, D's school choices are made, applications sent, and I can second-guess til the end of time with "maybe she should have applied to school A and not B, maybe she'd have a chance of more scholarship money at C, maybe her audition would be better for school D".<br>
Since it was necessary to begin/complete the application process so early, I find it unnerving, I must admit, to still be receiving (on a daily basis) college information from many of the top BFA programs. My daughter, thank goodness, who has no problem keeping her perspective, generally rolls her eyes, and says: "chunk it in the trash, mom, I already chose the schools to apply to!"
My feeling is this: she will be prepared to the best of her ability level and the cross section of schools she chose is a good mix of reach, match and safety BFA programs (2 of each).
Realistically, it's impossible to predict the outcome in these situations; all she can do is be prepared and try her best. The universe can be pretty random and the unexpected can (and often does) happen: bad weather, illness, grumpy auditors; or conversely: great weather, good health, happy auditors.<br>
The point is, we have no control over a lot of this process, I truly believe the outcome for my girl will be whatever it's supposed to be!!</p>

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<p>Seashells, thanks for sharing your experiences. These are great to hear. There are many paths for pursuing a career and training in this field. Those who go to very selective BFA programs have no guarantee of "making it" and there are those who "make it" who didn't go to college or went to an unknown program, etc. Read any Playbill and this will be verified. Some even went to college for a totally unrelated major but did theater on the side. Even going to college doesn't mean you will get a job in your major anyway (talk to any adult and see if they are working in what they majored in). So, right now, your daughter is in a college, earning a degree, enjoying it, getting training, all is good. Anything can happen next. </p>

<p>BIGisMama, I have to say, one, I am really impressed that all of your D's apps are in! Wow! That was not true for my kids at this juncture of their fall app year! Congrats! Your post reminds me of something....and that is, the college admissions process is overwhelming for both kids and parents. But on the parent end, what is very difficult is that this is one big time in your kid's life where you really do not have "control" over the outcome or what will happen next for them. It is in someone else's hand to decide (or at least to provide the options for her to decide between if she gets lucky to have more than one admittance). You can't really do anything but guide her and hope it turns out positively. But what you CAN do is to make sure your guidance created a balanced list of schools or realistic outlooks of the types of programs she should go for and what back up or more safe options might be needed on a case by case basis. If you have really done your homework and she has an appropriate college list, usually the student will get in SOMEWHERE but you just don't know where. Sometimes, when someone gets in nowhere, it is very bad luck but sometimes those cases are because the list was not realistic given the odds involved and so forth. There are cases on the Parent Forum where excellent students got in nowhere but their list was not realistic or balanced. So, while we can't control the outcome, we can guide our kids so that there is likely going to be at least one "yes". You have to take risks but you also have to plan realistically. It sounds as if you have and while it is unnerving to not know how it will turn out, try to be hopeful that realistically if you did proper planning that was realistic, at least one thing will come through. I felt that way with both my kids. I had no idea what would happen. It was hard on the nerves and the long wait. I prayed that something positive would happen and that they'd get into at least one school that would make them happy, like one of their favorites. But I also felt that while I did not know where they would get in, that it was likely that at least one of their 8 schools on a well planned list WOULD come through, but I just did not know which one that would be and thought it would be nice IF it was one of their favorites but it may not be. It was icing on the cake when they received many admits and choices including some from the favorites pile. Admittedly, this was a LITTLE easier with D1 who, while applying to some very elite schools, had reaches, matches, safeties. The reach schools were of the type that are unpredictable with difficult odds even for the most qualified kids. I knew she fit the criteria but knew the odds were difficult. For the BFA daughter, no BFA programs are really safeties so it was more unnerving. I felt she would likely get one from her list given my weighing of her odds and so forth. It turned out better than that but it was a nervous time but the nerves are NOT as bad if you have planned an approrpriate list so that at least one "yes" should come out of it. I realize there are no guarantees but there is appropriate planning. Sounds like you have done that and it should work that at least one comes through. It is a difficult process (for parents!) but it is part of the transition to adulthood that mom and dad can't make it so that everything works out for them anymore. Sometimes it is out of our hands and this is one BIG time when that is true.</p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>Actually, I have y'all to thank for those early apps! Got scared so bad about not getting the audition dates we needed that as soon as the apps for the schools D wanted, became available, I said "do them NOW because as the year goes on, you'll only have less time not more!"</p>

<p>To put in perspective, we live in a part of the country where school starts beginning of August and I knew if she didn't get college apps mostly done in the first 6 weeks of school (before rehearsals for fall show, and rehearsals for work, and studying for 4 AP classes REALLY ramp up) she'd be sunk!!</p>

<p>We spent a lot of July visiting colleges we could drive to, and she was at International Thespian Festival in June and looked into colleges there as well. So after visits and website visits and phone calls and e-mails, she tweaked her list to a manageable size and had a final list by end of July that her dad and I agreed with. My feeling was: why wait?</p>

<p>Now, I'm not going to say she didn't grumble and gripe, but even with her summer job performing at local theme park, and camp counseloring at performing arts camp, she had to admit that she had more time to devote to college planning than she would during the school year. And is reaping the rewards now, because she can devote more time to practicing her audition pieces!</p>

<p>But most of the rest of you probably start school one month later than us and didn't need to get this done so darn early!!!</p>

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<p>Bigismama,</p>

<p>Good for you! Senior year flies by so quickly. I had my daughter do hers as soon as she went back in September (that was two years ago, now). Luckily, I talked the process over with the guidance counselor in April of my daughter's junior year because she was going on maturnity leave and they kids were going to have a substitute guidance counselor (their third one). Needless to say, everyone thought we were crazy. But my daughter was accepted ED at her first choice school and in the meantime had a few acceptances from some rolling admission schools.</p>

<p>My daughter did not rest easy for the remainder of her senior year. She used that time to apply for scholarships. There is always something!</p>

<p>Good Luck and enjoy the process!</p>

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<p>I'm glad to see that my post seemed to help a few of you out there! My intention in starting this thread, however, was to have other people write about their "happily ever after" stories as well (although I guess I didn't make this clear). So, I think it would be great to hear from others who didn't get into their top choice school(s), but ended up being happy/successful in the school they did go to. I know this might be stretching it a bit because this is a college forum and these people may not be viewing this forum, but if there is anyone out there (or knows of anyone) who didn't attend an MT-Ivy and "made it" in the theater business, I think it would be great to hear these stories too! Again, I think it would give hope to those who didn't get into the top MT-Ivies and help reduce the anxiety level somewhat for those yet to embark on the college audition circuit this year.</p>

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<p>I"m so pleased that things worked out for seashells29. And I do believe that you can make things work wonderfully when your first choice doesn't happen. I, however, don't think things always work for the best and that you just end up where you belong. There are too many kids with serious illnesses and other traumas today to believe that they just ended up where they were supposed to be. Does God use every day to our good? Yes. Does he use every incident and decision to our good? Yes, I believe that. But, the human mind just doesn't somehow magically make all the right decisions and you don't just magically end up where you were meant to be. There are many testimonials to that on this very forum. Many kids are not pleased with where they are and have plans to make a change. My d may be one of them. That's undecided at this point. But, we don't believe she, necessarily, "ended up where she should be." Maybe that will turn out to be true, but certainly, maybe not. Maybe, in the end, and I mean, the end, many years from now, they will end up in a chosen place, but the path along the way does not always wind where it should. You have to make the best of it and then make decisions regarding whether to stay there or move on. I think it's just naive to think you just end up somewhere. does God guide and lead us? Yes, I believe that very much, but we also have free will and that causes kids to drink and drive too fast and it also causes us to have bad auditions and judges to have a bad day where they hate blondes or something. We're human and so we don't do everything as we should. Sorry for the negative post, but I'm very frustrated with this attitude. It seems to be meant to comfort those who did not get their first choices or any choice. And sometimes it does work out this way and that's great. But, sometimes, lousy things happen and they have to be dealt with and a platitude does not help. I'll end on a positive note. You do have to make the best of where you are and sometimes that turns out great and often it turns out to be a lesson of character or special relationships that benefits us for the rest of our lives. We do need to use every situation and time of our lives for our best and I know that these bright young kids are doing just that. That's why it has worked out great for some. And for the rest, they are living and learning and using this experience to make decisions that will place them where they ultimately should be. And where they are right now may be just a bump in their road to their ultimate perfect place.</p>

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<p>The end of your post is exactly what I mean when I preach the message of everyone ending where they are supposed to be. </p>

<p>There are more lessons in life than voice and diction. </p>

<p>I am so glad you can see that and let's hope the students can too. Thanks for posting your thoughts on this. It is such an important discussion.</p>

<p>xxx,Mary Anna</p>

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<p>Like razorback, I have been frustrated by what some young readers and parents may take away from this thread as the incorrect "fact" that it DOES NOT matter if you go to a selective program for MT as opposed to a less selective one. Although I don't think SeaShells necesarily was implying this, it is obvious that while many people have succeeded in the MT world with no degree or a degree from a "lesser" school (I put that in quotes for a reason!!!), the large majority of those who graduate from selective schools AND WHO CONTINUE TO PURSUE MT upon graduation meet success. They have already been indentified as specially gifted by their admission to these selective schools and they DO receive better OVERALL training in areas that are relevant to current professional casting situations. It's a harsh fact, but it IS a fact. Keep in my mind that I am NOT affiliated with any school and have no child involved in MT - I view this situation objectively from many years of watching students of mine and other students I know go through the process of college auditions, college choice, AND post-college career paths. Sometimes lack of admissions to a selective schools is a kind of "prognosis" of one's potential performance career success - NOT always, but SOMETIMES.</p>

<p>That having been said, there are SO MANY WAYS to use theatre training and passion - and that is most definitely NOT a platitude! So the "message" for those who do not end up at selective schools MAY be to find a different way to continue your passion for theatre - to find YOUR true gift WITHIN theatre!!! A way I always "concretize" this for my students is to use something I once read about Bob Fosse: despite his legendary poor dance technique (which led to the development of his unique turned-in style), everyone knew he was going to be a star by the way audiences reacted to him. And then I ask my students to think about what THEY get great "audience feedback" from - what performance area OR what other kind of skill. For me, I was a PRETTY good professional performer, sometimes getting accolades, more often not - but I was ALWAYS lauded as a teacher - and I gradually realized that teaching was my REAL love - NOT because people praised me for it - I got praised BECAUSE I loved it so much and that "read" to my "audience." (As I have said before, I was a high school classroom teacher and director for many years before working at as a Director of Ed at a small theatre and then pursuing my M.S. in Speech-Language Pathology/voice therapy and working as a private coach.)</p>

<p>One final related note: I just found out that a 2005 University of Michigan MT grad is working as an directing intern for the Cape Town Opera in South Africa!!! Now THAT is a cool example of "finding your own way" - she did the Semester at Sea program last year at this time, visited Cape Town, and decided that she wanted to pursue less conventional arts career paths than some of her MT classmates. By all accounts she is INCREDIBLY happy and has "found her place" in a way that she never truly did with casting at UM. She is EXTREMELY lovely and talented (and obviously VERY smart), but she found her BEST place not on a Broadway or regional stage, but halfway around the world!</p>

<p>Food for thought...</p>

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<p>This discussion is very interesting and could produce very strong feelings all around. Our own situations are certain to give us special insight into the one aspect of this topic that is closest to us. I highly sympathize with those parents and students like Razorback and Seashells29 where the student did not get into a top MT school and is trying to make her/his way on a different path. On the other hand, I understand CoachC’s comments that are more along the lines that entry to a top MT program is an indicator of not only talent, but stage presence, and will provide a more excellent training in the field than a “lesser” program and I agree with this belief, too, but with a caveat. When I started reading CC a couple of years ago, I saw how competitive the MT field is and realized the more information my daughter had, the better off she would be. I was 100% supportive of her dreams and have believed all along in her performing abilities, but realized that if she didn’t even know which are the best programs, that she certainly wouldn’t end up in one of them. There are many talented kids in our area and most of them are not given any information at all about the wonderful programs in other parts of the country. Ignorance in these cases is not bliss, but a dead-end, or best case, a different path. After I was caught up with my CC reading and had begun to contribute, my D and I formed a sort of partnership. I read CC and disseminated information to her, while she and I began to research the colleges. She assessed her strengths and weaknesses and began to try to pull up her weaknesses. She learned about the audition process, through her own research and study and through my CC education. After working on this for the past couple of years, she felt very confident to enter the audition season this year. She knew what she had to do to prepare and has done all along what needed to be done. Her college apps were all completed this summer and she’s been admitted to four schools academically at this point. Her auditions begin in October. However, the fickle finger of fate struck our best laid plans (sorry, I just watched the movie version of Sweet Charity). Late in the spring I started having a serious medical problem which was not diagnosed until August. I’ve now had surgery which went well. However, my recovery is going to be very long: 12-18 months if all goes well and I will be stuck in bed for months. After having looked forward to going to the college auditions with my D as sort of a last mother-daughter activity before she graduates, I now have had to rely on the kindness of internet friends for my D to audition. Ericsmom, 2DsnMT, and Shauna will be helping out my D at her fall auditions. To them, I want to say THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR GIVING MY D THIS CHANCE AT HER DREAMS! In the meantime, my D is trying to prepare for her auditions while having to care for mom at the same time. Since I can’t do anything that can’t be done from a bed (thank you husband for this wonderful laptop computer!!!!) and she’s my only child living at home, she has to cook, clean, run errands, and assist me. It’s not only a good thing she got her college apps done this summer, but has turned out to be a necessity! Of course, she also has school and all her school activities, although she did not do a show this fall so she could help me. My point is that although we know how important the right program is and have put the effort into this goal, an unexpected turn of events is making the pursuit of this dream many times more difficult. We don’t know the results of the audition process, but I can see the stress and exhaustion she is dealing with and feel like I’ve unintentionally let her down. Therefore, I find it difficult to believe that the process and product of who gets into which programs and who doesn’t get into them reflects totally accurately on the students themselves or is a yardstick measurement of talent. Yardsticks are for measuring objects, not talents. I also don’t believe there is any one perfect “job” for anyone. Those of us that have had more than one career or profession understand that some jobs are good for certain decades of one’s life. I remember watching a Biography of Doris Day on TV. She originally intended to be a ballet dancer and had an accident. She switched to singing after realizing she could not become a professional ballet dancer. If she couldn’t sing, she might have been able to become a businesswoman; look how impressively she’s organized her animal welfare charities. OK, now I’ve really moved away from the beginning of this post. I guess I should have warned you all that I’m on Vicodin .</p>

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<p>mtmommy-</p>

<p>I can't tell you how many prayers I have said for you. I was elated to see you are posting again!! Your post brought tears to my eyes. Bless your dear D and all she has ahead of her....indeed, what a strong woman she will be because of it all. AND you mtmommy, have much to look forward to....I just know it!!</p>

<p>I don't know if anyone happened to see Melissa Ethridge on Oprah yesterday. BUT she talked about how she developed a method of meditation while she received chemo for her breast cancer. Oprah asked her what she thought/meditated about....Melissa replied that she thought about life...that her mind and spirit were so separate from what was occuring in her body. I am paraphrasing of course, but in a nutshell she realized what she had to appreciate in life...and saw the bigger picture.</p>

<p>I am afraid that so many times we get so wrapped up with life that we forget the meaning, the purpose. Sure we have set backs and disappointments....but we mustn't get lost in the details....we must keep things in perspective. Take a deep breath and thank God for all we have.</p>

<p>Watching this show reminded me of my brother who was diagnosed with Ewings Sarcoma when he was 30. It is a rare form of cancer that typically strikes young children....not 30 year olds. He struggled so desparately....painpill addiction, chemo...etc. He was a bachelor and unfortunately didn't have anyone to care for him...thankfully my parents moved in with him and nursed him. Wouldn't you know that he would pass away on the very same day my beautiful twin sons were born...two floors down in the very same hospital. He struggled desparately to "hold on" to see his new twin nephews....but sadly he was 8 hours too late.</p>

<p>Needless to say it was a bittersweet day....we were so sad to have lost our dear Lee, but also knew he no longer physically labored...the pain was excruciating. At the same time we were blessed with 2 beautiful new babies. I truly believe he was right next to me at the birth...his presence was unmistakable. So you see, there is a purpose for everything...we just don't realize what it is right away.</p>

<p>I am sorry to have gotten long winded....it is something though that I wanted to share. Too often we overlook the bigger things in life.</p>

<p>mtmommy....I will send you some snailmail. It's always fun to get that too!! Take care....and please know that we are all pulling for you and D!! </p>

<p>All my best!!</p>

<p>SUE aka 5pants</p>

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<p>I think this discussion merits the thought to differentiate between “being where we should be” versus “being where we THOUGHT we wanted to be” and also realizing that the MT program is not “the end” it is just one path along the way. </p>

<p>Whenever this type of discussion takes place I am reminded of my years living in Europe. On occasion I would walk up to a confused looking American holding a map and ask if I could help. One instance a young lady watching the train pull away from the station asked me if she was in Rome. We were in Florence. To make a long story short we became friends, I introduced her to a male friend of mine and they have been happily married for 25 years. He took her to Rome for their 25th. </p>

<p>My S couldn’t go out for football in 7th grade, a biopsy and all that entailed gave him the idea to try something new. He got the lead in the school play which somehow got turned into a musical. Do we ever want to go through that 18 mos. again? No but that is the path that took him to where he is now. </p>

<p>Mtmommy – I wish I could write so well on Vicodin</p>

<p>Jenifer</p>

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<p>MTMommy, hugs to you!! I'll be in touch...</p>

<p>I agree with lots of what Coach wrote and not sure if I conveyed that just right or not. </p>

<p>I don't think necessarily that kids land where they were meant to be. Sometimes, life hands you lemons, as they say, and you have to make lemonade. So, sometimes things don't go the way a kid has hoped but the main thing is to pick oneself up and find a way to go on and make things happen. I can't say that if some kid got into some unknown program or not into any BFA if that is where they were meant to be but only that they then must reassess and plan for their future and find a path to do something worthwhile that is a pursuit of their interest. If it means some lesser program and they do that, then they do that. In that regard, Seashells daughter has found a worthwhile program and is going on with her future and who knows where that will lead. </p>

<p>I do agree with Coach that admissions into BFA programs as a whole is a bit of an evaluative or "cut" process. While I have stated that there are many paths to a career on stage, I also believe that the chances increase if one is in a very good training program with networking and so forth. Not everyone makes it who comes out of these programs. And people DO make it who did not go to a BFA program (again, read any Playbill) but the chances are increased for some who have certain educational or training opportunties. If someone is not successful in the admissions process, they have many options. They can opt to still pursue theater training, be it a certificate program, classes/lessons at studios, a BA degree in theater (also a good option), a regular college degree with an active extracurricular theater scene, or pursuing a related career (arts management, arts education, etc.) OR a completely different career but keeping theater in their life such as actively doing community theater and the like. A person has to assess if they still wish to pursue the whole theater goal or some variation, if they are not accepted. </p>

<p>There are lots of ways to define success in life. It need not be from this exact path. </p>

<p>To be successful in theater itself, there are many ways to get there, but certain paths have better odds or opportunities to get there but none of it is absolute.</p>

<p>Think of a different field for a minute. Say business. Lots of people in the business world do not have a degree from some Ivy level college and they've made it. By the same token, a graduate from a place like Wharton or Stern or some such, might have more opportunities upon graduation or more networking in the industry and so a leg up. But they are not the only people who "make it" in business. It is also not a guarantee. You can go to the best school in the land and not get the job you hoped for. But education can open doors and it can increase your chances of going to some next level in the job world. Others can ALSO get to that level from ja pip (spelling?) but the road might be more winding to get there in terms of odds. But get there, many will!</p>

<p>Life has twists and turns. You learn from one experience, readjust and go find something else to do. That something else in this case may be still related to theater and maybe not. The college admissions process involves a level of evaluation and there is a smidge of luck in there too. Often very qualified people get denied because of the sheer numbers at selective insititutions but sometimes when one is denied at every school on the list, they must sit back and reevaluate. Are they at the competitive level for that type of program? If not, what can they do to get there? Or perhaps can they find another path to pursue, either at a less selective school (and many do make it from that path) or go in another direction? Or not do school? Life can hand you some negative things and then you have to figure out what to do next. You don't have to give up but you may pursue a slightly different path. A selective college program is not a ticket to success but it is one way that has opportunities that may lead there but ya never know. It can open doors. It may not. Others may pass through those doors even though they took a windy road to get to that door. And there are lots of way to make a success of yourself no matter what you do later on. Not everyone can get into the most selective schools and that is just a realistic thing. If you do not, it doesn't mean you can't be successful in life. Many successful people came out of unknown schools. It simply means that this opportunity is not the one that came your way and you have to reassess and find an appropriate stepping stone for what you wish to do, that works for you. Make the most of it and find another very good path to success. A selective school is not a guarantee to anything either. Yes, one opportunity or one "cut" can lead to the next level and it is perhaps more likely than through another way, and so what Coach said was true that way. </p>

<p>Still, as parents, we need to guide our kids to realistic options. Use opportunities to reach your goals. If disppointments come your way, rise up and find a way to pursue something and make it worthwhile and reach another form of success. Some paths make it easier to get there, there is no doubt. But there are many paths AND there are many forms of success. Success is not just Broadway (in terms of theater and life). Reach for goals, be realistic about which programs are in reach, find opportunities you CAN attain, and make the most of what you've got. If one thing doesn't work, find something that does and reassess your direction. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

<p>PS, for those who are at the application stage, it is good to get the feedback from professionals in the field as to your chances. It is not the same as mom and dad saying you are the most talented young person. You need to get a handle on professional opinions as to your competitiveness for a BFA program so that you are realistically applying to appropriate schools. It is ok to reach for the top but also to have realistic options on your menu of your college plans.</p>

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<p>You are all so right and that is what I was trying to say also. Just because you end up at a particular school in a particular program cannot possibly mean that "that is where you were supposed to be." It is also absolutely not a measure of your talent. What an insult that is to all the kids who did not get into limited programs for one reason or another. There are hundreds of reasons a kid has to go to a school they would not have chosen, none of them having to do with their talent. I've done a lot of competing in another area and I know how subjective this sort of thing can be. It's not like winning a race and one person physically crosses a finish line. It's simply the educated opinion of a group of people. Granted, these people are experienced and have much expertise, but they're still just people with flaws and prejudices, just like anyone else. They have good days and bad days and are influenced by tons of very subjective influences other than talent. It's just naive to assume that a kid just doesn't have it if they did not get into a top school. Maybe they don't. But, that's not an absolute indicator of that. Let me just say, for the record, and I've said this before, that our mistake was only auditioning at one school. And to top it off, not having enough information about their process (had never read this forum at that point) and used poor audition material. So, that's the explanation for that audition. Had we auditioned at a number of schools, maybe all of them would have rejected her, but maybe all of them would have offered her scholarships. We'll never know. But I do know that one panel of judges does not determine her talent. And by the same point, I don't believe the ones accepted will necessarily be the ones who achieve success. I believe it will be a real mix. Talent is absolutely necessary for this industry, but it is just the tip of the iceberg. It takes a multitude of characteristics, emotions, physical attritubes, attitudes, etc., along with opportunity. I'm just tired of hearing that these kids just ended up where they belonged and that if they didn't, they just weren't good enough. It's true in some cases, and absolutely not true in just as many. And mtmommy, my heart and prayers are with you. We all identify so much with your feelings. I certainly wish you well and will add you to my prayer list.</p>

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<p>Susan, just be careful in suggesting that they be assessed by a professional. </p>

<p>This is just my opinion of course, but I never presume to predict the talent, success or viability of a career for a student. Those judgements are too subjective. </p>

<p>I was a professional casting director for 15 years and have seen too many unpredictable casting decisions!</p>

<p>I simply try to help the students give the best possible audition FOR THEM and that's all I can arm them with. One man's babe is another man's dog. </p>

<p>So I won't make any talent judgement or predictions. I can tell you what I like. But thats' all anyone is doing, really.</p>

<p>xxx,Mary Anna</p>

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<p>Razorback, your daughter's situation is a bit different as discussed here last year. You cannot measure necessarily if she had what it took to get into a selective BFA program based on ONE audition. I know MANY kids who are going to the top BFA programs in the country who had SOME rejections as well. Some got into the top handful and not into some lesser regarded programs. The selectivity of the admit rate of 5-8% at these schools does leave out some equally qualified people (much like the case at Ivy league schools). So, I would not evaluate one's competitiveness in this field by any one single admissions outcome. Had my own kid only applied to the school where she got her rejection, I then would have had to conclude she did not have what it takes to be admitted. BUT she applied to 8 schools and thus I must look at the total outcome. For someone who was not admitted to ANY school on their list, then it is fair to conclude that the list was not realistic considering the selectivity and long odds at such schools in the first place. If a student was not competitive enough to get into any school on the list, then that student must reevaluate. If that student still wishes to pursue a theater career, then he/she must get further training and feedback to become competitive with that level. Or he/she might go to a lesser known college program, a BA degree program, a school with an active theater scene, or a certificate program, or take lessons at a studio or privately. Or he/she might reassess goals and look to keep theater in his/her life while pursuing something else. Or perhaps keep training as a performer but also take courses in another facet of theater. </p>

<p>The admissions process overall (not at any ONE school) is an evaluative process. It does involve a bit of luck to get a spot in a particular school's class if you fit it. Plus at schools with admit rates in the single digits, you can't say that every NON admit is someone not talented. But when you are left with NO admits after trying for 6 or more schools, then you must evaluate if your college list was an appropriate realistic one in the first place. Evaluations by outsiders in the profession can also give you some feedback about where you stand and what avenue is the right one to pursue given where you are at. </p>

<p>Again, your child's situation was different in that she applied to only one school. How she'd fare in the college admissions process is too difficult to gauge from only one try at one selective program. She'd have to have a longer list realistically. Since she is attending that institution now (in their BA program), she can get feedback and advice regarding her competitiveness for any BFA programs and as to what is the right next step for her. Finding the right path is what she will do. </p>

<p>I don't know where anyone was "meant to be" but I know that you are where you are and then it is up to you to make the most of it or change course if need be. I hope she gets some professional advice from those she is working with as to the appropriate next steps and/or that she makes the most of where she ended up, whether or not she was "meant" to be there...she IS there and so she might go on to do great things that lead to another step in her life that is positive. Good luck. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>Razor?
I guess what I can't understand is why it means they weren't good enough? What does that mean? Good enough?
Who makes that judgement?
The parents? The student? The application process logical consequence?</p>

<p>There are big lessons to be learned in all of this, bigger than the BFA.</p>

<p>Thanks for this thought provoking topic.</p>

<p>xxx,Mary Anna</p>