It All Worked Out in the End!

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>Mary Anna, sorry I did not see your post when I just posted above.</p>

<p>Yes, that is a point well taken. I guess what I meant is that often times a student is told by mom and dad that they are so talented. And then sometimes those in their community say that and so forth. But it helps to both self evaluate.......how have I fared in auditions in the past, how am I doing when I try for something outside my local community or how have I fared in state level vocal competitions or that sort of thing....but ALSO to get someone like a voice or acting teacher who might give you an idea if you are an appropriate candidate for the t ypes of programs on your wish list. That person can't guarantee if you will get in but can give a fair assessment if you are in the BALLPARK. For instance, someone with very little training or very little experience, might think they are a realistic candidate when they really are not. That is all I meant. Nobody can predict your admissions outcome when we are talking schools with single digit admit rates but someone in the field can assess if you have an approrpriate list of schools given your skills, talent, and background. </p>

<p>This is sort of like how kids on other forums here ask "what are my chances" with their college lists and give their "Stats"....GPA, rank, Test scores, yadda yadda...and some are realistic with their college lists and some simply are not. A competent advisor in the college admissions field can assess their odds and if their list is an appropriate list or has some safeties and so forth. Likewise, a voice/acting teacher can give some guidance if a student has an approrpriate list of schools for their level of talent and competitiveness. But nobody can predict or guarantee the outcome, of course. It is subjective. But there are some baselines that put someone in the ballpark to be an appropriate or realistic candidate. </p>

<p>I know a friend of my kids who loves MT and has done a bunch of it (only ensemble roles) and is a good dancer but she applied to all the BFA programs and did not get in (but went to Indiana) and I did not find it surprising because while she is good and has a passion, I have seen so many kids with stronger skills who I knew were applying and I did not think her odds where that strong. I was right. And I am not even a voice or acting teacher. I have seen the competitive kids out there who are getting admitted and so while I can't predict just who will or won't be, sometimes I can see who is relatively in the ballpark or not, compared to others out there who have gotten in. That is why I say that you must self assess against peers you know who have been admitted to these programs, as well as get some outside opinions, to gage if you are on track anyway. My own kid did this. She looked at who she knew was getting in past years and if she had achieved similar things and so forth or not. There is some level of assessment from both within and from professionals that is helpful so that the college list is a realistic appropriate one, even if an unpredictable one.</p>

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<p>Well, I appreciate what you are saying but I still won't go there. It's a slippery slope, I dare not tread.</p>

<p>I will suggest this, and it is something I have my students do.
In the Dallas area there is a consortium audition of about 35 schools called the North East Texas Drama auditions. It's in early November and a good way to gage how your audition material is going to be received.</p>

<p>It's a pretty self correcting way to evaluate your chances. The schools are mostly second tier, with a handfull of exceptions. It should give students a ball park idea if where to apply.</p>

<p>xxx, Mary Anna</p>

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<p>Mary Anna, that sounds like an incredible and valuable audition experience that will help a student gauge their level of preparation and competitiveness. Unfortunately, we have nothing like that here in Vermont, nor many of the other things of that sort that I read about on here. We don't have thespian conferences, regional auditions, Tony style theater awards on the high school level (I forget what these are called elsewhere),performing arts college fairs, performing arts high schools, or the like. It is hard to gauge how you might stand in the larger pool out there from here in the mountains in a rural state. But a kid can get some feedback or self assess based on how they do in the region, on the state level, or in summer programs, plus feedback from professionals in the field such as voice or acting teachers who have worked widely beyond the area. None of it is absolute but it all helps as one prepares and gets a sense of being "audition ready" and also selecting an appropriate college list. </p>

<p>We also don't have a lot of Mary Anna's around here in the countryside :D. And I thank you for participating on this forum to and lending perspective from someone who works in this field. Your participation here is invaluable.
Susan</p>

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<p>I'm glad to see that my original post has generated so much good discussion, excellent advice and different points of view. I have been giving this subject much thought, and I think part of what prompted me to start this thread was to let the students out there realize that it isn't the end of the world if they don't get into the top MT colleges, even though it may seem like that at first, that there are OPTIONS and different paths to success. </p>

<p>As I mentioned in my first post, my D and I were initially devastated when she didn't get into her top choices. This was especially difficult for her since one of her best friends (from the same high school) got into CAP 21. Since we live in a very small town with a very small high school, I think this was somewhat humiliating for her, especially since she and her friend have both consistently had lead roles in our school and community productions. However, my D has had more professional theater experiences than her friend so it was hard to understand why she didn't make it. But this is just another example of not being able to predict what the admissions committees are looking for and that a person who is considering talented in one venue but not be viewed as such in another venue.</p>

<p>In response to Razorback, I didn't mean to imply that everyone is necessarily where they're supposed to be at this particular moment in time. What I was saying is that it wasn't the end of the world for my D, even though we initially thought that it was. I guess the title of my post should have been, "It all worked our for right now." Who knows where life will lead my D and what she'll end up doing, but for right now things are good and that's all one can ask for. I definitely agree with you that very talented kids don't get into the top schools, and I think I said that in my original post.</p>

<p>Would she rather be going to CAP 21? Of course, who wouldn't. As CoachC said, students from the top MT programs do have a much greater chance of success, and I know he's right. However, my D has found a very good program in which she is very happy and in which she appears to be thriving. Also, she was able to bounce back from her rejections and make the best of it, which is an invaluable trait in this business. </p>

<p>Also, this forum is supposed to be a discussion of ALL college options for musical theater, not just the top ivys. Of course, I realize that the top ivys are the ultimate goal and everyone should strive for that goal if they so choose. However, I think that this forum should be opened up to include all of the other options available to students in case they don't get into the top ivys.</p>

<p>I suspect that there are a lot of people lurking out there who would love to talk about other college options that are not as well known or as prestigious but are reluctant to. I know that I was initially, and it took a lot of courage to write the posts that I have regarding the lesser known colleges. But I do believe that if there is more discussion of other options, it will help reduce anxiety levels and help students realize that there is more than one path to success in this field. I think that it is a big blow to the self-esteem of those students who don't get into the MT ivys and they may feel that they have no future in it, particularly if they have been reading this forum which focuses entirely on the top MT schools.</p>

<p>Got to go and watch the Red Sox/Yankees game. Go Sox!</p>

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<p>Another thing some of you moms need to remember in saying that admissions are an indicator of talent is that you write from the perspective of living in a big city where there are well funded arts programs and even good performing arts high schools. There are kids all over the country that might have loads of talent and passion but live in small towns where they don’t have any opportunity to develop it and their moms work so they can't get anywhere else for lessons. What chance does a kid that lives in the boonies and got all her experience from the Bonetown Pentacostal Youth Choir, the Minny Guffman Community Theatre and the Whitney Traysh Dance Studio and Hair Salon have against an equally or less talented kid from the city that goes to a good performing arts high school and gets all kinds of private lessons and coaching? She might not get into the top schools but could go 2nd or 3rd tier and still do well or develop enough skills to transfer if she has the will for it. All it takes is one good teacher for a talented person with passion to catch fire and the good teachers are not only located in the top conservatories. I have been at an arts high school since 9th grade in dance and now drama and have seen it happen more than once that the kid from the country with no experience but raw tools and a good work ethic catches up and passes the former city theater Annies by Christmas break when they are put on a level playing field.</p>

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<p>Triplethreat.....no matter where you are from, you can make it. Don't worry if the city kids have more opportunities. Make the most of whatever you can do in your area. My daughter grew up on a dirt road in the mountains in a town of 1700 in a rural area. Her roommate at CAP21 did too. They found opportunities where they could in this rural state and drove miles to get to this or that lesson or to do a show at a theater. They also did their school shows. The school had no drama dept. We don't even have performing arts high schools in our state. They sought some programs out of state in summer. They pieced together training outside of school and made the most of what they found in a rural state. Sometimes they created opportunities when they weren't available. It can be done. Don't worry if you are not from a metropolitan area or a school or region rich with theater training and productions. The colleges take kids based on talent and potential. You need training and skills and experience on stage but there are many variations of how you get that. There is NO ONE way to get into the gate at a selective BFA program. You basically have to have skills, talent, passion and so forth. A country bumpkin can have that too. Don't worry. You can come from a totally unknown high school too. Go for your dreams. Read some Playbills some time. You will see star after star who came from some humble backgrounds or some little town nobody ever heard of! Yes, when you get to these BFA programs, you'll meet kids who went to well known arts high schools (ie., my D already has made friends at CAP from Interlochen, worlds apart from her schooling). When I saw the winners for NFAA Arts Awards, sure there were many from arts high schools, and here at our school, nobody ever heard of the Arts Awards and nobody helped to get ready for it or cared. I don't even know if they knew she won one. I only read about it on here! :D Don't worry if you are a kid from the country!</p>

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<p>Seashells, what I like about your story is that your daughter is making the most of the situation she found herself in and doing many positive things that will lead somewhere. She can't go wrong. Things are working out for her. They might not be what she originally hoped or planned but it is turning into a positive educational experience and who knows what steps will be next. Nobody ever really knows. She is doing good things. </p>

<p>As an aside, not truly on topic but relating to some things in your post now....</p>

<p>One, hubby has on the Red Sox Vs. Yankees game. (The Sox are UP) This is a big rivalry in our state. There is no Vermont team and there are many transplants here from Red Sox territory and Yankees territory so people are usually a fan or one or the other. Hubby is Red Sox fan and we went to college and grad school in Boston. This past summer, my older D was in Boston doing an architecture intensive at Harvard and her guidance counselor from here in VT had tix to the Red Sox vs. Yanks game at Fenway and offered one to her to join him since she was in Boston. She loved it. Then, when someone performed the National Anthem, my D went nuts and her GC could not believe it because she said, "I know that girl!" because it was the girl who is starring on Bdway in Mamma Mia and she went to theater camp with my younger D so this D knew her from her sister's camp. Was funny. The Red Sox lost, lol. </p>

<p>Also, I meant to tell you but a boy from our high school who graduated with my older one in 2004 but had done LOTS of theater with my younger one, went to Salem State last year. He did not audition for BFA programs and was not a good student but has done a bunch of theater. I have not spoken to him since then but he has now transferred to UVM. But he did plan to do theater at Salem State when he went there. </p>

<p>Also, I hear ya about the outcome of how some girls from your HS got into CAP and then your D did not and your D had had leads there and so forth. Sometimes, you just can't analyze these outcomes. If it makes ya feel any better, here is one for you. Only two kids from our HS tried for BFA in MT programs this year, my D (who really was a junior but graduated after junior year) and her friend, a senior. The friend is talented but has had less training and credits and had only done the school shows, and has only had one lead. She has taken voice for about two years, dance for a long while but not ballet, and did two summer programs out of state. That's about it. My daughter has more training, production experiencs, leads, and so forth. This other girl is a very good friend by the way. She is a terrific student and was salutatorian. She has a great background story as a refugee from the one of the war torn Soviet Union countries. She applied for ED at NYU/Tisch for CAP. She got rejected. She only auditioned at ONE other school, Emerson. Both girls auditioned EA at Emerson, and both got accepted to the college but deferred for the BFA in MT program until April. D's friend said she was going to attend Emerson even if not admitted to the BFA and so did not do any more auditions. So, it turned out she actually got into the BFA at Emerson in April. My D did not (and she would not have gone there without the BFA and only the college acceptance to the school). My D then got into CAP (and other BFA programs). So, here you have a kid who did not get Tisch but got Emerson and another kid from same high school who got Tisch but not Emerson (well, not the BFA part of Emerson). This is kinda a common thing I have seen lots of! From my D's other friends (not from our HS), there were ones who got into X but not Y and then ones who got into Y but not X. Too hard to figure it all out. So, you have to just keep to your goals, go for them, realize the difficult odds....NOT take it personally if a program did not want you. The field is full of rejections. They are hard on the soul but you have to pick yourself up and go on and make something new for yourself. Your D has found something. It sounds like it is going well. Last year's outcome will start to fade and some new beginnings and new experiences and positive steps are where she is heading. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>tripletreat - We also live in a smaller city and a more rural state. My S is not in a performing arts HS but has found many theatre performance opportunities in our city. He has been singing in choir and taking private voice with our church music director for years, acting and getting summer theatre training beginning with our local children's theatre for years, and dancing at a great studio quite a bit during HS years. He thinks that this smaller city has been great for providing training and performance opportunities. This past summer at OCU's camp was the first time he went away for training, and he is now a senior and launching the audition process.</p>

<p>mtmommy - welcome back - I can't write that well on a good day! Many of us are praying for your quick recovery. Your post puts everything into perspective when we are stressing over our regular life - work and school - along with preparation for auditions and writing essays for college applications. Your D is amazing - you are lucky to have her, and she is lucky to have you. I see great things in her future!</p>

<p>5pants - thanks for sharing about your brother - so sorry.</p>

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<p>mary anna, i think you misunderstood me. My statement refers to that thought being implied in other posts and the fact that I take issue with it. I don't believe that at all. I don't believe that anyone can make that judgement. It has been implied from time to time on this board that if a student auditioned at several schools and got rejected by them all, that they might need to reassess and realize they're just not good enough. I disagree with that. And, yes, I think this is all so much bigger than who got accepted where. I think way too many people on this forum are wrapped up in where who got in and not what's going to happen in 4 years. By the way, the theatre program at OCU will graduate my daughter with a BFA degree, not a BA. I really don't know why it's an issue whether she's in a BA or a BFA program, as if one is less than the other, but, that is changing. And, my posts don't have much to do with my daughter, in particular, specifically because her case is a little different and I was just trying to explain that. I'm just trying to take a stand for those who are in the situation of getting several rejections. I really don't believe it's an indicator of their talent. As I've said many, many times, there are a multitude of reasons why a student gets rejected. This forum is a very educated bunch. But, for those who aren't reading this and don't know this stuff, they are clueless. And if you go into one of those auditions having no clue how very selective they are, and not knowing all the unspoken criteria that that panel is looking for, then you're doomed. Not because of your talent, just because of your ignorance. Many, many kids don't have the kind of parents that are on here. They are pretty much on their own, trying to investigate the colleges and programs and prepare for them. Local high school counselors are clueless. I just hate to see some of us whose kids are sitting at their chosen school right now, look at those who received rejection after rejection and make any judgements on that one way or the other.</p>

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<p>tripletreat, you are so right. we are fortunate and have a great theatre department and i've been driving my d an hour both ways to voice lessons since she was 11. And we've been blessed with enough money to provide her with the training she needed. But, I've seen so many kids who are the opposite. Even kids in our area, whose parents work, parents who don't really take an interest, don't value voice or dance training, etc. And then there are those who live in the rural areas and also have those parents. Susie, I realize you do live in a rural area, but look at the resource your d had in a parent who was knowledgeable, supportive and able to see that she had the training she needed. You mention how far you guys drove for training and such. Not all these kids have cars or parents who can drive them. Some of them just don't have these opportunities. And I think it's naive to say you can make your opportunities. We all would, as adults. But, when you're 16 or 17, it's much harder to do that, especially without any adult support or guidance. And the point made regarding that raw talent in those kids is so true. They may not be ready due to lack of training when it's time for them to audition, but get them into a lesser (?) program and let them get some good training, and that raw talent turns into something exceptional. And, I loved what was said above regarding putting this all in perspective. Illness and hardships sure make us all realize how trivial it is to put so much stock in the name of the school. I honestly believe that there is valuable and credible training at all of these programs and if a kid has the talent, they will take that training and run with it. The main difference I see and the thing that I have been most concerned with for my d and her future education plans, is the opportunity afforded to those graduating from the "ivies." Those showcases and contacts with directors and such, they are helpful in getting a start. There's just more to it than the training, such as a nurturing environment where the kids develop confidence, etc. Sometimes you find more of that at the safeties. But, you still worry a bit about that opportunity being there in the end. It's just a tough decision, but I think it's much more complicated than just where you end up. and seashells, I didn't mean to imply that you said that. I think your situation has worked out great and I think it's very courageous for you to share your story and I also think it will be extremely helpful to other kids on this board. We do need to move away from the elite view that prevails sometimes and just try to provide more information.</p>

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<p>mtmommy, I am humbled by your post about your circumstances and wish you and your D all the very best this college audition season. So many of you humble me, in fact, and I can't help but smile when I read your posts. Thanks, everyone.</p>

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<p>I have been reading through these messages and just felt that I had to reply. I know of MANY kids that have followed this path. I will name a few of the programs: UM, CCM, CMU, BOCO, NYU Tisch, NYU Steinhardt, AMDA, ASU, UA, OCU, OU, WSU, Webster, IWU, Milliken, Syracuse, Ithaca, Tulane, Boston U, Santa Fe....and I am sure that I am missing some. Getting into one of these programs does not guarantee you will be happy the rest of your life. So I am sure that the reverse is true also! (Meaning that if you do not get accepted into one of these programs that you would be unhappy the rest of your life!) I know of kids that did get into their dream school and ended up dropping out or being cut for various reasons. I also know of kids that were immediately cast in First BDWY tours after graduating from one of these programs and by the end of the tour were tired of MT and ready for something else. I know of kids of tremendous talent and stage presence that did not get into their school of choice. I also know of kids that everyone thought were marginal talents that got into the better known programs. We have a family friend that spent years in the "Business" and his words of advice is that every actor has their window of opportunity...it might be as a child actor, or as a teen who has matured faster than their peers, or as 65 year old. Very few are fortuntate enough to be able to perform from a pre-teen until they are in their 80's. I am somewhat amazed at the new programs that have opened up around the country for MT. There was a time when there were only a handful of programs. I just want to say to everyone out there going for this to not give up. And also..it is OK to not end up on BDWY but to end up sharing your passion with others thru community theatre, teaching,etc.etc. I happen to think the most successful people that I have met have been those that are willing to give to others by sharing their knowldege. I so respect Mary Anna's comments that she would not want to be the factor as to if a student attempted to find a career in performing or not. My s had a voice teacher once who said HIS voice teachers always told him he would never get anywhere and he ended up with a successful opera career. GOOD LUCK!</p>

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<p>Razorback, you are right that not all kids have parents who are supportive or who have the time or inclination to help them get training or prepare for their goals or interest areas. Where we live, you do need a car. There is no public transportation. Many activities involve a GREAT deal of driving. Not all kids have parents who can or are willing. Some parents do not even support this field in the first place. Some families have two working parents who are not available to drive them places until the evening. But I have found that where there is a will, there is a way. Sure some kids have more opportunities than others. Some live where there are more. Some have more money for it. Some have parents willing to drive and sit all afternoon or evening while their kid does X or Y activity because it is too far to just drop them off. I do not live in a well to do community. Some kids can pursue quite a bit right at school. There are drama and musical productions and music lessons. For dance, you have to go 25 miles. But working parents do carpool if there is someone from the area also going. Voice, another story, was 50 miles away. But I believe they had someone come into the school and offer some voice lessons too but we did not use those. My D's friend who ended up at Emerson, comes from a single parent family and lives in a subsidized apartment. She still had some training and did school shows. Maybe not as much as other BFA candidates but she made it into a good program. </p>

<p>When I said create opportunities, I think this is something one CAN do. It doesn't serve as the main or only thing a kid does but still adds on. For instance, my daughter wanted to create and direct a musical theater revue. Nobody had ever done that at our school. She had been in a cabaret troupe out of state and has a music background and has choreographed. She just wrote a show, located all the music, got a cast together, arranged for a crew, a band, space, and directed, musical directed, choreographed and produced it (and performed in it) and not only was it a great experience for herself, a whole lot of kids benefitted from it. In fact, I know the girl who went to Emerson (and the boy who went to Salem State) spoke highly of this experience she had afforded them to do an entirely student run production. It was a benefit for the American Cancer Society. It was so successful, she created and led another musical revue the following year, money again going to the ACS and Tsunami Relief. I think she learned a lot in leading it, directing, musical arranging, and much else and all these kids had an opportunity to put on great musical theater. So many kids soloed who had never gotten to in a regular school musical. She made opportunities for them. If someone was a good dancer, she created a solo dance for them. This summer, she wrote a musical revue for kids and gave lessons in acting, voice, and dance and directed them in the musical she wrote (along with the girl who now is at Emerson). While the kids learned a lot and had never put on a show like this, she also learned from it plus earned a great deal of money. Another time she put on an arts event she created related to peace and activism and secured a theater venue in our community to put this on. She arranged for many student performers to perform on this theme. It involved many other facets to do with her research on activism and government policies and what not that I won't get into. But again, she not only led it but performed in it. Other kids here have started their own jazz quartets, things like that, and get gigs. I could go on. My point is that this alone is not enough but you can create arts experiences for yourself too. Every year (but this year when my D was in intensive care at the hospital) she has performed in a yearly variety show at our local theater, usually singing a musical theater song but in recent years more contemporary music accompanying herself on piano, and part of that was to give back to her community but part of it was just another opportunity to go out and get some stage performance experience that wasn't a regular theater production. </p>

<p>Sometimes, you just find ways to go out and do what you like. Sometimes, those things are out there for you too. Some cost money. The ones I just mentioned did not. Yes, the dance classes cost money, as did the voice lessons and instrumental lessons and summer programs. But not everyone at our dance studio or at school are of much means but many do do these things and it just takes supportive parents to help arrange it or drive or s hare the driving. Community theater, which my D has done quite a bit of, is also free. Again, it does take parents to drive. Like with anything in life, kids who don't have parents behind them to support their interests and activities such as with time, are at a disadvantage and life is not fair. However, you do not have to have a lot of money to do all these things. Many kids we know doing these things do not. Money helps, no doubt about it. Parents willing to drive or car pool helps. Parents who believe in you and allow you to pursue your dreams, helps. Everyone wants the best for their kids. The best need not be defined as the top schools. There are many ways to define best and many ways to define success and many ways to make it in this world. My kids did NOT go to the best schools growing up. They went to rural public schools where many do not even GO to college. They still ended up reaching their goals (their goals for this juncture in their lives I mean). So, supportive parents and will and drive (kids' inner drive, parents' vehicle drive, lol) helps. </p>

<p>For my husband and I.....we had no knowledge about this field. I don't see this much different than anything our kids pursued. We exposed them to activities they asked to do and we just learned about them as they did them and tried to let them do whatever they wished. How I ended up with a kid in theater, I really don't know. But it is not due to any expertise on our end about this area. I also have kids who play music, do sports, ski race and lots of stuff. You just have to be there for them and support their interests. It kinda goes along with the territory of being a parent. Some have more means, some have more time, but the underlying theme is emotional support. As parents, we just kept learning along the way. Here, I talk about theater stuff but really there is a whole lot other stuff the kids are involved in that we also support. I'm heading out of state to see one of my kids play an intercollegiate soccer game on Sunday. Yes, I am willing to drive 9 hours roundtrip to see it. We already miss that we can't see everything she does any more now that she is in college. But I'll put my soccer mom hat on and talk soccer talk at that. </p>

<p>Kids do need nurturing. Some parents provide it more than others. And it does help to have that behind you. But still, there are a variety of ways to get some training, skills and stage experiences and you don't have to be of great means to do some of it. When we provided driving and lesson fees for arts stuff for our kids, it was no different than ski lessons and skating lessons. It was never meant to be training for a future career. It was just supporting their interests. One child ended up making her extracurricular interest into her college and career interest. We just went with the flow. I don't think we are that unusual as I see parents do this all the time but I realize some kids have some roadblocks if the parents are disinterested or unsupportive in helping them pursue whichever endeavor they enjoy or have interest in. I don't see performing arts stuff any differently than any other stuff we did with or for our kids. I join countless parents in my rural area who double as taxi drivers :D. It is part of the fabric of the community here. </p>

<p>You, me, all of us, try to do the best by our kids in whichever way we can. At some point, they are now on their own to make it. If you are a parent who values education, then you try as you can to help them go on and get one (anywhere, I don't care the "selectivity" of the college). You give your kids the gift of education and opportunity to then seek their goals. Education and doing for the children is a part of my culture and background and so I find it a natural thing. I do appreciate your comments and realize that not all children have that support behind these endeavors. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>Susan,
I must admit I am very interested in what you say but cross-eyed trying to read your posts. Mercy, is there a Cliff Notes version!!!!????</p>

<p>Happy Days, Praise the Lord, you are the most enlightened of all of us. Please keep giving your thoughts. Bravo!!</p>

<p>xxx,Mary Anna</p>

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<p>Razor,
all this fretting and your D is at OCU!?!?! For heavens sake, what's your worry?
I guess you are speaking for others who have been let down. Not to worry, they will all find their place.</p>

<p>xxx,Mary Anna</p>

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<p>To those of you who have added me to your prayers and have sent me good wishes, I thank you so much. You have no idea how much I value the friendship and help of my CC friends. You are helping me through a very difficult time.</p>

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<p>Mary Anna, yes she is at OCU and we are thankful for that. What a quality program that is in all areas. And the school has such a wonderful rep. But, she is there in theatre performance rather than musical theatre, which was her first choice. Still, she loves acting and we believe that is the key aspect to all of it anyway, so we're grateful that she is there and also received the best theatre scholarship they give. So, that was a very nice compliment to her abilities. They are also heavily concentrating on making their theatre program the same quality as their mt program. She will graduate with a BFA, which we are very pleased about. Dr. Herendeen heads up both programs so that's a good thing. But, yes, my posts regard all those other kids. I don't know if you were reading last fall and winter when the auditions and acceptance letters were going out. But, this forum was a hard place to be if you were getting rejections. It wasn't a warm comforting place, it was painful to be here for those getting rejections. I still feel that pain for those kids. So, my posts, rather than apply to my d so much, are just a bit of an indignant response to some of the statements that have been made. I think I'd feel the same way regardless where my d was. And Susie, I'll just say one more time, no matter how difficult you perceive your situation to be and how much you and your d made a success of it,......there are so many kids, just as the one you mentioned, who just don't have those opportunities or that support. I am aware of all these extra wonderful shows your d has done, and I know you're proud, but the kids I'm referring to could not do that. It takes a lot of parental support to pull those things off. Plus, the fact that she's been to stagedoor every summer has afforded her quite a bit of training and confidence. She's just not at the same level as the type of kid I'm referring to. My post is not to take away credit from you and your d and all you've accomplished, just to simply point out that it is really tough for some of these kids and if you think your situation is similar, then you just don't understand the type of home I'm referring to. You may have not been educated in this area, but you are educated and bright and willing, therefore when your kids chose a path, you were there and ready to learn all about it and do all you could to help them. Many parents are none of those things. I don't have an argument with you. I just know from personal experience with certain kids that there are those who just don't have those opportunities. Yes, you can sing in your church choir and maybe find a community play to be in, but you and i both know that's not the same as voice lessons and an acting coach when it comes to the top schools. And, let me say it before someone else does.......some of those kids do get into those programs, but, it's much harder for them.</p>

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<p>Razor, just to clarify, I definitely don't think my daughter was in a difficult situation! Yes, she has our support. I did mention what our area is like and how there are things a student can do that are free and also to make some opportunities for themselves. I know many kids from our area, and it is not a well to do area, who participate in many theater things. Some of it does not cost money such as lessons at school, school shows, community theater, etc. Some things do. Parental support, as I mentioned, is VERY helpful. I'm not just talking money but driving and emotional support and encouragement. I surely agree. </p>

<p>The friend I referred to that landed at Emerson, who has a single mom, are refugees, lives in a subsidized apartment....still did school shows, did the cabarets with my D, took dance at our studio, took private voice and piano (just not as many years as my D), and co-directed the children's theater program with my D. She did one summer theater program in NYC and one summer dance program in NYC commuting from her father's home in NJ to do it. She may have done less than my daughter in terms of training and has way less theater credits and comes from much more modest means, but her mom is behind her. Yes, it take parental support but not always lots of money. Some kids, like she, are go getters. They make opportunties. They are also excellent students, like she was and as you are aware, that academic merit can help you in admissions too and I am sure it did as she was second in the class. She rose up from fleeing a war torn country to making it here. </p>

<p>It can be done. It is harder, for sure. I just don't want kids who say....we aren't rich or we don't have lots of theater around here....to think they can't go for it. We don't have lotsa theater around here either and no drama classes at school either. I totally agree that it is way easier if your parents are behind you (and driving you!), but you can work hard even in communities that don't have lots going on....be it that choir, that community theater, starting a club at school, finding a mentor from school or community. It is harder but I just don't want kids to think you need to have X, Y, or Z in order to have a chance at this field. We didn't have performing arts schools or acting classes here or lots of productions to try out for. I'm not saying it was difficult at all but just saying that you do not have to have everything available that some other kid had but you still can go for it and find ways to get some skills and experience no matter where you come from. A kid from the boonies can be competitive amongst kids from the cities or kids from elite performing arts high schools. They can still attain skills and talent and go for it. That is all I was saying, not that my kid had it difficult by any means and also my children had parents who tried to support anything they wanted to do and put that first. We were not of the vein of "don't go into theater, you can't make a living" or any of that and I know some kids are up against that too. I totally understand ALL of that. I think they have it harder, no question. </p>

<p>I just think that if there is a will and much hard work, you can get there too. Don't think that if you don't have all these things available where you live that you don't stand a chance. I'm simply saying that not only my D but SEVERAL kids I know from rural VT, including her college roomie at CAP, got into selective BFA programs even though the opportunities here are not what they are in many areas of the country. I know what is out there from not only reading this forum but from their friends who live in other states that have WAY more available to them, as well as more means. I want to encourage ALL kids that you can do it too. Having a parent behind you SURELY helps, I definitely agree with you, Razor, on that. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>Oh, Razor. Thanks so much for clarifying all that. I understand where you are coming from much better now.</p>

<p>I am so excited because I have a former student in Theatre Perfomance at OCU also!!!!!!!!!
She had wanted MT too and is now happy as a clam about how it all worked out.
I was so impressed with her positive attitude. She decided she needed to focus on her acting for a while and at the same time continue her work in vocal and dance. This is exactly what that track is about! </p>

<p>Then they have the chance to audition again. I just love that. It's as though those kids were too good to let get away, but not yet competitive for the MT program. It's a great offer for them and I am hopeful your daughter will meet my student if they haven't already.</p>

<p>please PM me so I can put you all in touch.</p>

<p>xxx,Mary Anna</p>

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<p>susie, i guess we agree to disagree.....a bit. i agree with much that you say, but still disagree with some. but, i think it's all been said. one thing i do definitely agree with, is that these kids have to go for it. and maybe i've missed that point all along. one thing i do not want to do is sound like it's just pointless to audition if you don't have these things available. You definitely have to go for it. If nothing else, during the audition process, you learn what you should have done and now have an opportunity to correct that. I do enourage any kid to do whatever they can. They could even do phone training or order videos. Even that is hard for some because of the cost. Of course, the biggest problem to me, is not knowing what you should do or be doing. We assume because we're here on this forum that everyone knows what we know. Boy, is that not true. That's the crux of my story, just having no clue what this whole game was about. And when that's the case, even though there's a will and you've found a way, you're doomed cause you just don't know what you should be doing and do the wrong things. that's such a problem....that school counselors and even high school theatre and choir directors don't know enough about this whole college entry process. so, i wish there was a way to educate them. But, we certainly agree that the kids have to go ahead and do all they can and go for the audition regardless.</p>