It is 2013, parents; is Vassar really need blind ?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Vassar College
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<p>I have been reading how more and more schools which used to be need blind are now need aware or need sensitive (oberlin) or another way I have seen it cut is to be need blind for a goodly number of the apps that are pretty solid, and then for the apps that are more gray, pop open the app's financial strength or weakness (eg, Mac, Carleton, Wes).</p>

<p>So after a few yrs into the Great Recession, what is Vassar's policy , wholly need blind, partially, or need aware?</p>

<p>anyone's relevant experience that might vary from Vassar's stated position wd be helpful.</p>

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<p>For the record, Vassar says:

[Financial</a> Aid - Admissions - Vassar College](<a href=“http://admissions.vassar.edu/financial-aid/]Financial”>Financial Aid ← Admission ← Vassar College)</p>

<p>But this should irrelevant to applicants; it doesn’t affect the quality or desirability of the school, but rather only the chance of admission.</p>

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<p>Additionally:</p>

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</p>

<p>[FAQs</a> - Admissions - Vassar College](<a href=“http://admissions.vassar.edu/financial-aid/answers/]FAQs”>http://admissions.vassar.edu/financial-aid/answers/)</p>

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<p>Vassar is one of a shrinking(and already small) group of colleges/universities that is fully need-blind. Regardless of grades, Vassar will not consider your financial needs in the admissions process unless you’re an international applicant, in which case it could play a role in some cases, though international students getting full financial aid as a part of their acceptance is really, really common(I’ve heard schools like Upenn won’t ever do that). There are schools like Wes and Brown and that I’m fairly sure are need-sensitive, while Vassar strives to continue not to be. The main platform the current president seems to run on is socio-economic diversity’s importance and the role need-blind admissions plays in fostering it.</p>

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<p>“Vassar is one of a shrinking(and already small) group of colleges/universities that is fully need-blind.”</p>

<p>Most schools are need-blind; do you mean need-blind and also meet full need?</p>

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<p>^^That’s the kicker. It’s one thing to be need-blind on the front end of the process; it’s quite another to be denied aid after you’ve been admitted. This happened to a friend of mine who applied to Vassar, albeit a long time ago.</p>

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<p>^ Schools that can’t afford to meet full need may want to keep the door open for top applicants who have “hidden” assets, like grandparents who can make up the difference.</p>

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<p>Vassar is need blind in admissions and meets full need in aid. </p>

<p>Disclaimer - full-need is short hand for full demonstrated need. It may not be as much as you feel you need. Institutions can and do interpret family financial information differently so it’s very possible that colleges which are full-need will offer different amounts of aid.</p>

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<p>My theory is that many of the middle class students enrolled in private colleges have grandparents who are supplementing meager financial aid packages. Either that or the students are taking larger loans than the colleges would like to pretend are necessary. I wish someone would conduct a study to either prove or disprove my theory, but it’s a topic college presidents don’t talk about. </p>

<p>VONLOST, it bothers me that you seem to support the status quo. Should middle class students be able to go to Vassar only if they are willing to incur serious debt or if Grandma is willing to help foot the bill? Maybe instead of charging so much tuition, colleges should look for ways to reduce costs so students do not need as much financial aid and do not need to ask Grandma for money. </p>

<p>A friend who is a high school principal told me recently that the dirty secret is that NONE of the private colleges are need blind, even if they claim to be. They all have their ways of figuring out who has money. The colleges can see the applicants’ home addresses and know without looking up the information which zip codes are the wealthiest. My friend thinks the plans of many elite colleges, including Vassar, Amherst, and others, to bring a few more poor students onto their campuses are just a ploy to get more money from donors. Consequently, in the long run, he says it’s less expensive for the colleges to give full scholarships to a few more of the poorest students than to give slightly better partial scholarships to a larger number of middle class students. Vassar has been written up in the NYT for the aid they give the poor and veterans, not for the help they give to middle class students. The president milks the publicity she gets from admitting Pell Grant students and veterans for all it’s worth. Rich do-gooders feel much better about helping the poor than helping a student from a middle class family, and they like the attention their alma mater gets in the NYT. </p>

<p>My friend accepts this idea as a fact of life. He’s not bothered by it. And he likes the fact that colleges are turning their attention to the poor, but he admits that the colleges are screwing over the middle class and don’t give a damn about it.</p>

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<p>What’s better for society, supporting the poor or supporting the middle class (avoiding the obvious “or both”)? Are there any middle class out there who can say they are receiving enough aid to attend college? We actually need statistics to answer these questions. Who has the study?</p>

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<p>I am pretty sure I am middle class, and both my children have received financial aid packages from Vassar that made attending affordable. There is no outside help from relatives, no hidden assets, just income, savings and a condo. Without belt-tightening? No. My children work/ed in the summer and during the school year (work study - pretty light duty) to meet their expected contribution and pay for books and spending money. Doable without total loans in excess of $17,000? Yes. So it’s not just the “poor” that are getting reasonable packages from Vassar. Just want to set that record straight for anyone considering the school.</p>

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<p>“A friend who is a high school principal told me recently that the dirty secret is that NONE of the private colleges are need blind, even if they claim to be.”</p>

<p>Is there perhaps bias? How could s/he possibly know this? How could anyone?</p>

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<p>chris’mom, it depends on how Vassar interprets your financial status. If you are a Californian with a lot of equity in your home, your children will not get much financial aid, even if you have suffered through periods of unemployment but are working now. Vassar won’t care if you have not been able to build up your 401K account with employer contributions, because you only work for an employer for two or three years (at most) before your division is closed or the company goes under. This is real. I have friends in this situation.</p>

<p>If you are a civil service employee with a good pension but a modest salary living in a low cost area of the country (so your home has not risen in value and is not worth that much anyway), your children would qualify for a lot of financial aid at Vassar. That is as it should be. Vassar won’t consider your retirement benefits in the calculation of financial aid. But many Californians who work for private industry have little in the way of retirement accounts and have struggled with unemployment while still paying high mortgages. They are counting on the equity in their private homes to fund their retirements, but Vassar wants them to dip into that money to pay for college.</p>

<p>I don’t begrudge you for the financial aid your children have received. All I ask is that you understand that you are lucky that your particular financial circumstances qualify you for more financial aid than other families who also have difficulty footing the bill simply because the formula works to your advantage.</p>

<p>The only way to make private colleges like Vassar accessible to everyone who qualifies is for colleges to find ways to cut fees. But why should Vassar take this approach? If you don’t think Vassar gave you a good enough financial aid package, and you turn down their offer of admission, there’s always someone who was probably an equally good student in high school on the waiting list who wants to attend.</p>

<p>Years ago, my parents, both civil service employees, sent me to an expensive private college similar to Vassar without access to financial aid. Yes, chrismom, they tightened their belts- but only so they would not have to dip into savings to send me to college! We will never return to those days, which were funded on the backs of the rest of the world as well as the underprivileged at home, but the situation today is ridiculous.</p>

<p>vonlost, please be real. Everyone knows that the fancy prep schools have been tickets into the Ivies. The same is true today, just to a lesser extent. Is it easier to get admitted to Harvard if you are from Trinity or Exeter or from Stuyvesant or Hunter? How many students are admitted to the Ivies from each of these schools? Do we really have to look up the information to ask if it is fair? But I cannot speak specifically for Vassar.</p>

<p>In addition, vonlost, my friend is THRILLED that Vassar is accepting poor students. If he has a bias, it’s in favor of what Vassar is doing, so why are you questioning his bias as an explanation for his statements?</p>

<p>I have a friend who is a Vassar alum, and I told her this morning about my recent posting and your responses. She has just replied to me that Vassar raked in the money in their recent fundraising drive. They collected many millions more than they anticipated. Good for them. You can tell me there’s not necessarily a connection, but it sounds to me as though all this publicity about educating Pell Grant students has paid off handsomely for the college. So, let’s go screw the middle class next year, too. It’s good for business.</p>

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<p>Well, I wasn’t speaking for everyone or suggesting that the financial aid formulas work for everyone. I guess I just wanted to point out that one need not necessarily be “poor” in order to receive an affordable package from Vassar. Your points are well-taken and obviously should be instructive for those in the situation you describe. These issues can be highly-charged and comparisons can be tricky. I am very grateful that we have managed and am not suggesting fault in those who have not had the same choices. I do live in a high cost of living area, and believe me I am well aware and more than appreciative of the educational opportunities my children have/have had. So, I will qualify my comments to say that for SOME middle class families, it will be realistic to expect a reasonable/affordable financial aid package from Vassar.</p>

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<p>From <a href=“Institutional Research – Vassar College”>Institutional Research – Vassar College, the average grant is $40,390. Tuition and fees are $59,070. So the average family contribution is $18,680 of those receiving aid. How many of the poor can afford this? Zero? Therefore the middle class is receiving a substantial portion of the aid, and Vassar is not neglecting the middle class. At least that’s how I interpret the data.</p>

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<p>idic5 - Vassar is need blind in admissions as others have said before me. If you are middle class, please apply since everyone’s situation is different. We found that attending Vassar (with need based aid) was less expensive than attending an out-of -state university (with a merit scholarship.) Vassar certainly made it manageable for us. I don’t know the specifics of their policies but we are sure glad that we applied and found out it would work for us.</p>

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<p>Thank you, Chris’mom, for understanding. I sincerely wish your children the best at Vassar. I hope they do well and enjoy their time in college. </p>

<p>Vonlost, I am not impressed. The Vassar freshman class is composed of 20% Pell grant students who are on near full scholarships (except for the amount of their Pell grants, I assume) as well as veterans (I do not know how many) who require a lot of financial aid beyond the meager amounts provided by the GI Bill. It’s no wonder that the average financial aid package is high. </p>

<p>But read my previous message to Chris’mom, and you will see why I am complaining. Read further, too.</p>

<p>I found this information on Vassar’s website: admissions.vassar.edu/about/statistics/</p>

<p>Apparently, 56% of Vassar’s entering class is receiving financial aid. 20% of them are Pell Grant students, and a few others are veterans who are (rightfully) receiving huge financial aid packages. This means that less than 36% of non-Pell Grant students/veterans qualify for financial aid. Vassar’s freshman class consists of 13% foreigners, and they have to fend for themselves financially. That leaves 31% of Vassar freshmen who are Americans wealthy enough not to require financial aid. I think this means their parents earn approximately $250K per year or more or have sufficient savings to pay their own way. Here’s an easier-to-read summary:
20%+ Pell Grant students and veterans.
< 36% non-Pell Grant students/ veterans who are receiving aid.
13% foreigners (most do not get financial aid)
31% wealthy students.</p>

<p>I argue that the largest segment of the (qualified) applicant pool is probably the middle class. If it isn’t, it should be. Just as Vassar wants to increase the numbers of poor students to make the Vassar student population more representative of society, they should also be concerned about the middle class. I have no doubt that the middle class is getting shafted in the college admissions process. Either they are not being admitted to Vassar, or they are not being given enough financial aid to attend. </p>

<p>I agree with my friend that it’s awesome that Vassar is admitting 20% Pell Grant applicants as well as veterans, but unless Vassar is willing to decrease the number of rich kids or foreigners, there’s an opportunity cost involving middle class kids in their approach to admission. </p>

<p>Vonlost, am not concerned that you don’t like the fact that I am pointing out that the decision to admit 20% Pell Grant students was a brilliant shrewd business move on the part of Vassar’s president. </p>

<p>If colleges- Vassar and all the other elite schools- really cared about academic excellence and cultural diversity, as well as the American middle class, they would admit fewer rich kids and fewer foreigners and give more spaces to middle class children of Asian immigrants. </p>

<p>I have to work tomorrow. No more comments on this thread from me.</p>

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<p>Vonlost, I meant to say that if the average financial aid student is paying $18,680, that’s a lot of money, because more than 20% (including the veterans) of students are paying zip (as they should be). That means that the average middle class student at Vassar is probably paying about $30K per year. That’s a heck of a lot of money.</p>

<p>Look at the article by Allysia Finley in this past Saturday’s New York times: The Real Reason College Costs So Much. I don’t agree with everything Richard Vedder says in the interview, but one fact caught my eye: Princeton just built a new dorm. It’s cost approached $300,000 per bed. </p>

<p>The only way for colleges to enroll a student body that is reflective of the (mostly middle class) American college student population is to make college more affordable by finding ways to cut costs.</p>

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<p>Correction: This past Saturday’s Wall Street Journal.
The only way for PRIVATE colleges to enroll a student boy reflective of the (mostly middle class) American college student population is to make college more affordable by finding ways to cut costs.</p>

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<p>A few points:</p>

<p>92 of 168 (55%) nonesident aliens (and 1561 of 2355 total students, 66%) receive Vassar aid (CDS).</p>

<p>20% of U.S. children live in poverty (U.S. Census), matching Vassar Pells.</p>

<p>Depending on model, 25% to 66% of U.S. is middle class. Say we define Vassar middle class as 100 - 34 - 20 = 46% of students. With Vassar aid, every one of these 46% can afford Vassar. I conclude that the middle class can afford Vassar.</p>