It is OK to choose the cheaper, In-State over the more expensive

Parents Forum
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<p>I think there are quite a few parents here who have argued against going into heavy debt. From what I've learned here, I am going to strongly caution my kids against falling in love with any one school. Money will matter to us, and there is no Lexus in my driveway. We'll be able to pay a good chunk, but not 45K/yr+. If they get good packages, we'll weigh everything out and see how things look. I speak well of our local state college, because I want my kids to think of it as a viable option and not something to look down at. I feel very strongly about them not going into much debt. I've worked with women who couldn't take the time off after having babies because they had big student loans to pay off, and they were miserable. You just never know what life will bring you later on. Graduating with debt can have a lot of influence on how much freedom one has after graduation.</p>

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<p>dstark -- "In other words, 33% is a perfect fit, he doesn't deal with the other 67%...so in reality, it is a perfect fit and you just saved over $100,000."</p>

<p>Good point! See, this is why I ask! He's the type of kid that would do that anyhow, probably. And frankly, I'm exaggerating when I say "perfect fit." No school fits a kid that well. Chicago is just really close.</p>

<p>As for your other point: perfect fit being a bunch of BS marketing... not so sure about that. We visited 6 of S's seven schools and definitely felt the fit-factor in various ways (the serious lack of fit at one particular highly-regarded univ. caused us to drop it abruptly from the list). The school in question really does seem to fit S to a tee, and I think there is something about this "fit thing" that is important, but maybe when we are talking about the top 25 or so universities in the country, it's a little like comparing the top 3 out of 50 brands of strollers. Sure, there is one that has all the bells and whistles (do they really make them with cupholders now?) and it probably rides smoother than the others, and maybe it has some really nicely designed mechanics or whatever, but is it worth paying THAT much more for? I dunno. To some it is, to others not. You get into the mindset with college -- or at least I do -- that your kid should have the best, shouldn't have to settle in certain ways. I know that's not realistic for middle-class people... we have ALWAYS compromised big time on our vehicles, addresses, vacations (what vacations?), clothing, etc... There's something about educating your child that makes you not want to compromise. My question is, since we HAVE to compromise because we can't front 7 years of private college -- BA/JD -- where do we draw the line? (Having said that, I sincerely wish I was talking about stroller-level costs rather than college-level costs!)</p>

<p>Garland: "I think they are asking, given the difference in price, do you think it's worth it. "</p>

<p>Agree. That's exactly what I was asking. I'm okay with people disagreeing on whether it is or isn't.</p>

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<p>Dstark - Thanks for your excellent advice
I'm not looking for financial advice per se, I am trying to find other opinions - opinions outside my local circle of family and friends - after all my D may someday choose to live outside my small town. We really know that it is more than just a lifestyle choice in funding college. We were one of those families punished for saving too much and paying off the house as a retirement plan. Now H is retired and our income will not support much debt. Not complaining, just wondering if what we think is logical (free vs. 160K) sounds rational to people outside SC, and why</p>

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<p>I dunno, dstark, it seems like when people ask questions like Berkeley vs. UChicago (at $100k more), they want to hear all opinions. In this particular case, I have total faith that the poster will not do anything unwise financially just because I cast a vote for Chicago. And hey, Momof2inca, if you are reading this and if your son does choose Berkeley, please get in touch, I would love to take you to lunch when you are in the area!</p>

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<p>dstark -- my understanding of this study is that the $300K difference is a net benefit, after taking the cost differences into consideration -- it's written by an economist, so I'd assume all aspects of the situations were considered. Maybe that's a foolish assumption on my part! I'd love to hear someone's opinion after reading the paper. This doesn't mean I think it's a good idea for the student to assume such a debt load, and I understand that every family's finances are unique. For us it means no new cars, fancy vacations or early retirement, but we're not used to a life of luxury, anyway. We've never been rich, we're never going to be rich, and if we were rich, we'd spend it on the kids' education.</p>

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<p>The only reason my husband hasn't retired is because we want the kids to be able to go to a private college/U. if they want to. ( and can get in) For us, its a priority. We know lots of people in town who are fine with instate here, are retired, and are living it up.. different strokes.</p>

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<p>A teacher at my D's elementary school is planning to teach for four more years just so his daughter can go to an expensive private U. To each his own.</p>

<p>Reminds me, I haven't talked to him since before the April 1 Big Day. I hope his daughter got into one of her schools!</p>

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<p>Dstark--worth is always a measure of money???</p>

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<p>dke--I just saw your post! Your H doesn't happen to teach at an elementary school in the Bay Area does he?</p>

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<p>This needs to go right at the top of this forum and everyone should read it before they post.</p>

<p><<if you="" make="" an="" extra="" $300,000="" in="" earnings="" a="" lifetime="" because="" go="" to="" higher="" ranked="" school,="" that="" is="" one="" incredibly="" poor="" financial="" investment.="" will="" way="" more="" than="" just="" investing="" the="" money="" conservatively.="">></if></p>

<p>And just how much does it cost to pay off $100,000 in student loans over 10 or up to 30 years if you choose the extended payment plan so you can still afford to live?</p>

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<p>dstark: Great points, all. I especially like the one about the extra $300,000 in earnings over a lifetime--an "incredibly poor financial investment," indeed. I also have to question the "perfect fit" school. I don't think my daughter ever found any one school (from pre-school to 12th grade and beyond) that was "perfect," at least for her. There's been at least something (even if it's just one thing) that's been wrong with all of them (too small; too big; in a baaaad part of town--complete with drive-by shootings; too expensive; too close; too far away; too cold; too ugly; way too pretty and suburban, that sometimes you'd just like to see some ugliness for once; too rich; too poor....) You name it. A "perfect fit?" I don't know. I don't think I've ever run across anything perfect in my life. But maybe that's just me...</p>

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<p>mstee, no we're not from the Bay Area.....I wish!</p>

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<p>Garland, NO.</p>

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<p>mcdeb, I read the study and I have to wonder if it's flawed at the start in some way due to self-selection. It seems to me that a lot of middle-class young people who want to go into lower paying jobs by choice (teaching, public service, etc...) would simply never consider a Tier 1 private university because of future financial obligations (i.e. how to pay back the loans), whereas middle-class students who are planning to go into the more lucrative careers (private medicine, engineering, banking, business, etc...) figure they're going to be able to afford big loans after graduation so they choose the top privates. Thus, before they ever set foot on the college campus, they are sorted into people who want to make more and people who want to make less. Factor in all those future teachers who go to top public universities, and that could account for the wage gap right there. </p>

<p>I would be more interested in a study that shows how two groups of middle-class kids (equal in family income, EFC and future career goals) fare after graduating from the top private and public colleges. Specifically, (yeah, right) give me two sets of public advocacy attorneys and let's see if the lifetime financial difference is as much as $300,000 or anything close to it.</p>

<p>(Well, this is getting us a little off track, because my original question, and Dstark's OP, is more to do with quality of education versus cost, not future income versus cost. I'm just not that concerned about S making more money over his lifetime by going to one school over another... hmm... come to think of it, this is probably why I will never be rich.)</p>

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<p>When my husband retired, it was with the knowledge that in addition to being over 60, we had saved up enough to stretch roughly 20-25 per year. We didn't consider that we would get almost NO financial aid from private colleges due home equity and the savings account. Additionally, we haven't ever said education was not important and we weren't willing to pay for it (thus we have paid private school tuition all these years). Our D is a hard worker and has managed to get into several good schools - some with good scholarships. She managed to get into a top school with no money - our D has narrowed down to good State honors college with nearly free ride vs. top school with no $$$. I know our opinion, but I do value others. I am not complaining about the finances, I simply am seeking opinions.</p>

<p>If money were no object our families values are such that I still don't think we could pay the 160K. WELL maybe if it were NO object. But being middle class.....</p>

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<p>mstee, I'll definitely be in touch if S chooses Cal. Thanks for your kind offer!</p>

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<p>momof2inca, in the study, Berkeley and Chicago are in the same grouping. :)</p>

<p>I do think Chicago is a great place and a year ago I asked an acquaintance who has worked at 2 IVYS and had a kid at Harvard which of those schools gave the best education and she said "Chicago".</p>

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<p>Momof2,</p>

<p>I really appreciate your post, as I know future career plans are weighing on my son's mind as he thinks over his choices. He is likely to go into some form of ministry or social service, which will surely not be lucrative. Since we are not able to assure him that help will be there to cover his future indebtedness, I know he is being more careful in what he chooses to do. I think this is part of his journey, though, as his chosen field of work is going to involve some real self-sacrifice, I expect. I have been more successful at "letting go and letting God" myself now that the options are known, and I am going to be interested to learn what new I can about my son as we move through the next couple of weeks!</p>

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<p>dstark,
Thanks for bring up a good thread. My family has also been spending a lot of time thinking about this subject eventhough D is only in 9th grade.
The world is different now than years ago as far as college is concerned. I see some of my friends as an example of what not to do. My best friend's parents spend big bucks for her undergraduate(math), she got into Medical school but dropped out because she did Not like studying biology. She went to Stanford for MS spending thousand of dollars and now eventhough she is working after 2 years of unemployment, she is thinking of quiting and may be going for a teaching certificate so she can spend more time with her kid. I have nothing against teaching career but she would save herself big bucks if she thought though more carefully. Today she and her husband still live in apartment because there is no more money left after paying off her college loan. On top of it, she does not even feel she has chosen the right path.</p>

<p>My D often compares Ivy league to BMW and UC to a Honda in college education and she said she does not mind a Honda. Her HS is one of the tops in CA and she is in the top 1-2%. Though CC, I had to advise her very early on that we may not have money for Ivy league/top school so she won't be disappointed.We're both working, has lots of home equity and savings but we're afraid of taking on more debt for the sake of education. We're been savings for D since she was 6 months old( when an Ivy League education was $20K/year then ) but the dot com bust and recession make us wary of spending money.</p>

<p>I agree some kids are borderline and parent has to spend more time finding the perfect fit, but there are tons of kids who fit in well with most school(D is the case).So in choosing an education, one has to weight many factors not just fit or prestige and it very much depends on one's situation.</p>

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<p>Orangemom,
Sounds like free is the way to go. However, just for the heck of it, have you called the finaid office and asked them to take a second look at your form? There are suggestions on this on the Financial Aid forum.</p>