Italian student dreams: is my curriculum good enough?

[MarcoLoc]

<p>Hi everyone,
I'm new here, but I've been reading this forum for a long time in this months, and I found it very useful. My name is Marco, I'm an 18-years-old Italian student and I'm going to apply to some American universities.
I didn't know where to put this message because I think that "College Chances" forum doesn't take in account many factors and my situation is particular. Sorry if it's the wrong forum, anyway.</p>

<p>I'll try to be as short as possible.</p>

<p>What I want to do:
As my academic backgroung is solid, I'm thinking about applying to a competitive American school. Right now my selections are: MIT, Stanford, Columbia, Cornell, Duke and Northwestern University. I'm looking for a very good university that can cover most of the costs (scholarships based on need) and provide a high level instruction. I'd love to become a researcher and I think that in America I'll have a lot more possibilities than in Italy, where meritocracy doesn't really exist. However, my plan B if I fail in entering in such an University is to study in Italy, where you can apply by Semptember of the same year you are going to study.
Please, if you know any good university that offers need-based financial aid for international students, let me know.</p>

<p>1) Grades:
In Italy we don't have GPA and our scholastic system is based on a scale where the minimum pass grade is 6 and the maximum 10 (I believe that it is higher than an American A+, it is excellence and it's very hard to achieve).
I have to say that I study in a technical high school and I study specific subjects related to electronics; I believe that, as I want to study engineering, this will help me a lot because it makes my curriculum different and unique.
I've just received my grades and my arithmetic mean is 9.08 (out of 10).
These are my specific grades of this year:
Italian 8
History 8
Economy 8
Telecommunications 9
Electrotechnics 9
Electronics 9
Systems 9
Physical Education 9
Technology, design and project 10
Math 10
English 10
Behaviour 10</p>

<p>2) Extracurriculars:
* Drama (3 years)
* ECDL (European Driving Computer License)
* Robotics (2 years and the next one, I've won two national competitions--> 2nd place and 4th place [this year was a lot more difficult because it was the "official" compitition] )
* Open Days (I showed our school to perspective students)
* Math and IT stages at the University of Genova
* PET and FCE courses, both exams passed
* Math and Biology Olympic Games
* Student Tutor (I spent so much time helping other students and classmates, especially this year. It also helped me reviewing the things I needed for my scholastic tests)
{If I forgot some of them I'll add them in future}</p>

<p>3) Summer experiences:
* Summer Camp in London (2 weeks) : a very international experience, probably it was the best summer experience I've ever tried. Maybe it can be the subject of my essays (as long as my sexuality or my uniqueness).
* Research in a very prestigious research institute, the IIT (Italian Institute of Technology) (6 weeks): I'm doing this work/research experience and I LOVE IT. Actually in the first two weeks I've done a lot and I'm expecting to give even more. I'm joining an advanced robotics team.</p>

<p>4) Test/Exam Scores:
I've only taken SAT Math II and I got an awesome 790.
I'm going to take the TOEFL in Semptember (I think I can easily score more than 100, as some complete mock tests revealed), the SAT I in October and the SAT Physics in November/December (probably in December).
I'm pretty confident with these tests even if sometimes I'm very stressed about them!</p>

<p>5) Sports:
I used to swim but as a freelance (not agonistic) and I used to play volley before High School. I hope I'll have time to do one of these (or another) at university.</p>

<p>What do you think? Will everything make a competitive application? Do you know other good universities that offer a good financial aid for internationals? Do you think I have any chances with the school I chose?</p>

<p>Thank you very much all in advance and if I forgot something I apologize but I'm very tired, here is midnight and I will work this week!</p>

<p>Ciao guys!</p>

[MYOS1634]

<ul>
<li>You need to prepare more than the Physics SAT Subject - you already have maths 2 but can you prepare another one – based on your subjects this year, not sure which (do you think you could try to take English??? it’d be quite difficult since it’s not your first language. And of course, being Italian, you’re not allowed to take the Italian SAT Subject.)</li>
<li>If you’re pretty sure about the TOEFL and have studied/taken practice tests already, don’t waste time on it - review once with a practice test before you take it. That’s it. Spend your time instead preparing the SAT tests instead: for the TOEFL you’re not really ranked. If you get the TOEFL score they want, they move on and look at your SAT scores to rank you. (If you don’t have the TOEFL score they want, you’re cut, if you have the TOEFL they want… they move on to more indicative elements of your application.)</li>
<li>Your list is ALL reaches. And they’re all “wild card” or “lottery” schools = No one can know whether they have a chance or not. It’s like playing the lottery. If you believe in your good chance, certainly do play/apply, but don’t plan to pay the rent with it. In other words: those schools should be in ADDITION TO schools where you stand a chance, schools where you match (are above the average of) most applicants’ stats, and safeties (schools that offer merit aid and where your stats are so much higher than the top25% of applicants that you know you’ll get financial aid.)</li>
<li>in the US, you can study science without preparing an engineering degree. You can prepare a BA or a BS in Computer Science about anywhere.</li>
<li>if your university is ABET accredited, it doesn’t matter a lot if it’s at the top or the bottom. Sure, it’s better to get into MIT but if you can get into ABET-accredited Central State or Eastern University’s College of Engineering with a hefty merit scholarship, it’s nothing to sneeze at.</li>
<li>you’ll have to indicate how many students (or what percentage), nationally, reach the national benchmark level that a 6 indicates, a 7, an 8, etc. Typically a 5 would be a C.
For example, in the US, in any given course, statistically, about 30-40% reach a grade of A+, A, or A-; about 30-40% reach a grade of B+, B, B-. A B average (3.00) would be considered problematic to go to college and a B+ (3.3) would be too low for most competitive colleges. Schools such as those you consider would most likely want a transcript reflecting the fact you are among those who achieved at the highest level for national standards.</li>
<li>it’s not that unusual for engineering or CS applicants to come from a technical or STEM high school.</li>
<li>roughly how much can you/your parents spend for your education?</li>
</ul>

<p>Check to see if there is a free, independent “EducationUSA” agency/commission near you.</p>

[xraymancs]

<p>@MYOS1634 is right on with all comments. If you want to study engineering, make sure it is an ABET accredited program. Any such program has minimum standards which are recognized all over. As for other possible schools, look into the [Association</a> of Independent Technological Universities: AITU](<a href=“http://theaitu.org%5DAssociation”>http://theaitu.org) universities (besides MIT). The smaller ones, like my own, will give good financial aid to international students.</p>

<p>As an alternative, you might want to take your “laurea breve” in Italy and then apply for graduate school in the U.S. Ph.D. programs fund their students and they are always looking for students from Europe as there aren’t many who apply. This might be more financially affordable if you can find a good engineering program in Italy. I know a number of very good engineering schools whcih can give you an excellent preparation for graduate school.</p>

[MarcoLoc]

<p>First of all, thank you both for answering.

1. I’m looking right know at the subject tests, with English you mean “Literature”? I don’t think it is useful if I’ll study scientific/technical subjects… Am I wrong? I think the same thing about “World History” and “French” (I studied it 4 years ago), but I don’t know if taking more subject tests that maybe won’t go as good as the others will help me…
2. Yeah I agree about the TOEFL, but you know it is costly and I want to take it only one time… of course I will spend only 4-5 days and not more for being more comfortable with the questions
3. I agree also about the “lottery”, what schools do you think I can discard? I mean, I would like to have a chance for the highest universities, but I think that applying to 6-7 schools is enough (the process is also quite expensive)… Maybe I could keep MIT, Stanford, Duke and Cornell and find other 2-3 universities a little bit less selective! What do you think?
4. I tried to search “ABET schools” and I found a HUGE list of universities! I’m afraid that I might miss the right one for me, how can I filter them a little?
5. I’m afraid that in Italy we don’t have such statistics, I searched a lot but I couldn’t find anything! If it may be a reference, in my school (about 600 students) only in two we achieved 9 as arithmetic mean…
6. “it’s not that unusual for engineering or CS applicants to come from a technical or STEM high school.” Perfect then… sometimes here in Italy we are seen as less important, but actually we study as much as the others!
7. I think that 10000$ per year will be the limit, I know I’m asking for a lot, but my family income is around 30000 euros per year and we can’t in any way pay more than 10000$… I’m sure I’m going to give them back what they spent when I’ll work, but I can’t ask for too much. That’s why I must discard schools that don’t give financial aid to internationals or need-based aid, or aid that covers only a small part of the expenses.
8. {In Italy EducationUSA centers simply don’t exist :/} EDIT: I was looking in the wrong section. However, there are only two centers in Italy and are in Rome and in Naples. I live in Genova, they’re SO distant for me.</p>

<p>9) Thank you xraymancs for the really useful link, I’m looking right now at the universities in that list, I hope to find a good fin.aid package…
10) Yes I know, as I said in my first message, my plan B is to remain here and take the “laurea breve” (I think I can easily enter in Politecnico of Milano/Torino). But I think that studying in the US will really be an awesome experience (also for becoming autonomous) and that I could find almost everything I need (physically and psychologically). However, I’m not here to say why I don’t like the idea of studying in Italy :)</p>

<p>Thank you so much again to both of you.</p>

[MarcoLoc]

<p>I found these two useful sites:
[Schools</a> Awarding International Financial Aid](<a href=“http://www.internationalstudent.com/schools_awarding_aid/]Schools”>Schools Awarding International Financial Aid)
[Browse</a> Awards for Study in United States | International Scholarships Search | IEFA](<a href=“Browse Awards | International Scholarships Search | IEFA”>Browse Awards | International Scholarships Search | IEFA)</p>

<p>I just wanted to share them with you!</p>

[MYOS1634]

<ul>
<li><p>re: subjects: top schools like to see that you’re “well-rounded”. You will take up to a third of your classes in subjects not related to your major, but “general culture” such as literature, sociology, Composition/Writing, Speech, Diverse Perspectives, etc, etc. It’s important to score 750+ in science SAT subjects, but it’s equally important to show that you know something else. If you’ve studied French, review quickly and plan on taking the French test. The Literature test (English) may be too difficult although it would definitively show your ability to challenge yourself.</p></li>
<li><p>Something like “only two students out of 600 in the school got a 9” is ABSOLUTELY to mention. Your counselor should be able to detail your grades in this way (or in relation to national percentages or benchmarks) for as many subjects as possible.</p></li>
<li><p>Go to the Common App quickly (it’s going to be disabled throughout July to upload the new version). Go to “members colleges”, click “requirements”, then click on the column " applicaiton fee/ International". Check out all the universities with no application fees (even $10 or $20 should be okay - you only want to limit those with $40-75 application fees, for obvious reasons). Write down all important data: what they require (tests, recs…), their deadlines, etc. In your chart, keep a column to write that score the top students reach (you’ll have “25-75 range”: write down the top score - to get a scholarship, you want to be at or above that score.)</p></li>
<li><p>Some schools to look into (I don’t know if all offer financial aid or scholarships, you’ll have to look yourself, but these are all solid schools)
Michigan Tech
[50-50</a> Profile: Michigan Technological University](<a href=“http://diycollegerankings.com/college_profile/50-50profile-michigan-technological-university/]50-50”>5 Essential Michigan Technological University Facts - Do It Yourself College Rankings)
Auburn
[Academic</a> Majors](<a href=“http://www.auburn.edu/admissions/majors.html]Academic”>Undergraduate Admissions | Auburn University)
Boise State
[Welcome</a> to Boise State, College of Engineering](<a href=“http://coen.boisestate.edu/]Welcome”>http://coen.boisestate.edu/)
Carroll (=> they have scholarships for high scores)
[Engineering[/url</a>]
Another good catholic school
[url=&lt;a href=“http://www.mu.edu/]Marquette”&gt;http://www.mu.edu/]Marquette</a> University | Be The Difference](<a href=“http://www.carroll.edu/academics/majors/engineering/]Engineering[/url”>http://www.carroll.edu/academics/majors/engineering/)
Arizona State CTI
<a href=“https://technology.asu.edu/[/url]”>https://technology.asu.edu/&lt;/a&gt;
Very selective, very generous Olin
[Olin</a> College](<a href=“http://www.olin.edu/]Olin”>http://www.olin.edu/)
Christian college in Michigan, scholarships
[Hope</a> College | Engineering](<a href=“Engineering Department | Hope College”>Engineering Department | Hope College)
BYU (mormon)
[Ira</a> A. Fulton College of Engineering and Technology](<a href=“http://www.et.byu.edu/]Ira”>http://www.et.byu.edu/)
Great schools, very selective, scholarships
[Engineering[/url</a>]
<a href=“https://www.bucknell.edu/academics/college-of-engineering.html[/url]”>https://www.bucknell.edu/academics/college-of-engineering.html](<a href=“http://www.trincoll.edu/Academics/MajorsAndMinors/Engineering/Pages/default.aspx]Engineering[/url”>http://www.trincoll.edu/Academics/MajorsAndMinors/Engineering/Pages/default.aspx)</a>
[Lafayette</a> College · Lafayette College](<a href=“http://www.lafayette.edu/]Lafayette”>http://www.lafayette.edu/)
[Lehigh</a> University](<a href=“http://www4.lehigh.edu/default.aspx]Lehigh”>Home | Lehigh University)
South, sports
[College</a> of Engineering and Science | Clemson University, South Carolina](<a href=“http://www.clemson.edu/ces/]College”>College of Engineering, Computing and Applied Sciences)
super famous
[Mines[/url</a>]
Virginia, near ocean
[url=&lt;a href=“http://cnu.edu/]Christopher”&gt;http://cnu.edu/]Christopher</a> Newport University](<a href=“http://www.mines.edu/]Mines[/url”>http://www.mines.edu/)
in New Orleans
[Tulane</a> University - School of Science and Engineering](<a href=“http://tulane.edu/sse/]Tulane”>http://tulane.edu/sse/)
And more…
[Illinois</a> Institute of Technology](<a href=“http://www.iit.edu/]Illinois”>http://www.iit.edu/)
[EWU</a> | EWU Home](<a href=“http://www.ewu.edu/]EWU”>http://www.ewu.edu/)
[Lamar</a> University - Texas - Carnegie Doctoral Research University](<a href=“http://www.lamar.edu/]Lamar”>http://www.lamar.edu/)
[Welcome</a> to Florida Atlantic University](<a href=“http://www.fau.edu/]Welcome”>http://www.fau.edu/)
[Indiana</a> University?Purdue University Fort Wayne - IPFW](<a href=“http://www.ipfw.edu/]Indiana”>http://www.ipfw.edu/)
[East</a> Carolina University. Tomorrow starts here.®](<a href=“http://www.ecu.edu/]East”>http://www.ecu.edu/)
[Ferris</a> State University: Michigan College Campuses in Big Rapids MI, Grand Rapids MI, Off Campus Locations Across Michigan](<a href=“http://www.ferris.edu/]Ferris”>http://www.ferris.edu/)
[NDSU</a> - North Dakota State University](<a href=“http://www.ndsu.edu/]NDSU”>http://www.ndsu.edu/)
[Kettering</a> University](<a href=“http://www.kettering.edu/]Kettering”>http://www.kettering.edu/)
[Florida</a> Institute of Technology](<a href=“http://www.fit.edu/]Florida”>http://www.fit.edu/)
[New</a> York Institute of Technology (NYIT)](<a href=“http://www.nyit.edu/]New”>http://www.nyit.edu/)
[New</a> Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology](<a href=“http://www.nmt.edu/]New”>http://www.nmt.edu/)
[Murray</a> State University on the Web](<a href=“http://www.murraystate.edu/]Murray”>http://www.murraystate.edu/)
[Montana</a> Tech of the University of Montana](<a href=“http://www.mtech.edu/]Montana”>http://www.mtech.edu/)
[Home</a> - North Carolina A&T State University](<a href=“http://www.ncat.edu/]Home”>http://www.ncat.edu/)
[Rose-Hulman</a> - Top Ranked Engineering College in Terre Haute, Indiana](<a href=“404 | Rose-Hulman”>http://www.rose-hulman.edu/)
[South</a> Dakota School of Mines and Technology](<a href=“http://www.sdsmt.edu/]South”>http://www.sdsmt.edu/)
[Research</a> University | Purdue University](<a href=“http://www.purdue.edu/]Research”>http://www.purdue.edu/)
[Rochester</a> Institute of Technology](<a href=“http://www.rit.edu/]Rochester”>http://www.rit.edu/)
[Home</a> - University of Tulsa](<a href=“http://www.utulsa.edu/]Home”>http://www.utulsa.edu/)
[The</a> University of Virginia’s College at Wise | THE UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA’S COLLEGE AT WISE](<a href=“http://www.uvawise.edu/]The”>http://www.uvawise.edu/)
[The</a> University of Akron : UA Home](<a href=“http://www.uakron.edu/]The”>http://www.uakron.edu/)
[Tennessee</a> State University](<a href=“http://www.tnstate.edu/]Tennessee”>http://www.tnstate.edu/)
[Welcome</a> to Southern Illinois University](<a href=“http://www.siu.edu/]Welcome”>http://www.siu.edu/)
[UDM</a> College of Engineering and Science | Home](<a href=“http://eng-sci.udmercy.edu/]UDM”>http://eng-sci.udmercy.edu/)
[College</a> of Engineering & Applied Science, University of Cincinnati](<a href=“http://ceas.uc.edu/.html]College”>College of Engineering and Applied Science | University of Cincinnati)
[Allen</a> E. Paulson College of Engineering & Information Technology (CEIT) | Georgia Southern University](<a href=“http://ceit.georgiasouthern.edu/]Allen”>http://ceit.georgiasouthern.edu/)</p></li>
</ul>

<p>I’m sure Xraymanc already linked you to some of those!
:)</p>

<p>Go to “prospective students” -> international. See if there is financial aid (need based) AND/OR scholarship (merit based). If the answer is yes, “request information” or “join the mailing list”. You’ll get free brochures sent to your home, to decide which schools seem to “fit” you, your budget, your academic goals… best.</p>

[MYOS1634]

<p>edited to add: If you can take another science test along with physics and French you’d be good to go!</p>

[xraymancs]

<p>Remember also, that many schools will work with you on trying to make it affordable if they really want you as a student. The big state schools may not have so much flexibility. So it is good to have a couple of schools that you are sure to get in as a top student and which really want you.</p>

[MarcoLoc]

<p>Thank you SO SO SO (I mean SO ahahaha) much MYOS1634 for the links to the universities!!! I’ve been checking every single uni you suggested, and I pinpointed these 5:

• Bucknell University
• Olin College
• Trinity College
• Lafayette College
• Lehigh University
  Because they offer a very high financial aid to international students (Trinity College cover ALL the expenses, I was like this O.O when I saw it) and are very good in science/engineering!! I couldn’t have been able to find them if it wasn’t for your help!
  I will think very much about which 6 to chose (also between the ones I listed before) and I’m surely going to ask for free brochures!</p>

<p>–> Subjects: Thinking in a “well-rounded” logic will help me to choose better, probably the one in which I’m most likely to succeed is the French Subject Test (I mean, it’s only comprehension and not writing [I would be terrible])… How much do you think will it be a good score for this additional test? 700?</p>

<p>–> Counselor: That’s another problem for me. In Italy this figure doesn’t exist, I mean someone who can help you with university or any other problems and it’s not the director… I’ve got to do all the dirty work =/ However, I think that top uni actually know something about the other scholastic systems, don’t they? I don’t think that claiming “I’m the top 0.3% in my school” in my application will help me.</p>

<p>–> Other test: I think that taking Chemistry or Biology will show my weakness in that fields (unfortunately I studied them in the first two years and not in a good way, my professors are to blame)… Furthermore, it could be the third test in the testing day and I don’t think I could be able to do it with the proper concentration.</p>

<p>Thanks xraymancs, I hope to be admitted with a good need-based aid!!!</p>

[MYOS1634]

<p>So MarcoLoc now you have your reaches and your matches! you need 2-3 “safeties”. There are no real safeties for international students, so by this I mean schools where you’re sure to be admitted with merit aid (ie, you’re highly above the top students in their 25-75% range AND they offer big merit scholarships for all applicants including internationals).</p>

<p>You can ask for as many free brochures as you like. I’d encourage you to ask every single school that is possible: The 6 listed in #1, the 5 listed in #2, then a whole bunch just to find your safeties. Then read each brochure carefully. In CommonApp look at the “application fee” column and see how many schools you can apply to (some of the schools on your list don’t have an applicaiton fee via commonapp). For an international student, 10 schools (3 reaches, 5 matches, 2 safeties) is a minimum because admissions are so unpredictable.</p>

[MarcoLoc]

<p>I don’t think I’ll apply for “safeties” because my safety is studying here in Italy…</p>

<p>As you suggested, I’ve tried to take a mock French test… I scored 700 and I was so surprised because I thought I had forgot almost anything in these 4 years!
Do you think that such score could be good enough since I just want to prove that I’m well-rounded?</p>

[MYOS1634]

<p>If you can get a 700 without studying for 4 years, a 750-780 and perhaps a 800 is within reach (and probably with minimal studying). That would be really impressive because French won’t be on your transcript at all (you’ll have to talk a little bit about, 1-2 lines).</p>

<p>I understand the reasoning for your safeties.
So, pretty much, you’re set. All you have to do is start manifesting your interest, join the mailing list for those 11 colleges (see if you can find 3-5 more, who knows?), read the free brochures carefully, and go from there. I/We’ll be there to answer your other questions along the way. :)</p>

[MarcoLoc]

<p>Well, French is very similar to Italian (same Latin root), I only need to review the meaning of some words and some grammar rules… Probably I’m going to buy a preparation book, I’m going well with Barron’s, do you think it is reliable also for languages?
If you think I’ll be asked to talk a little in French then I’ll need to talk a lot with my father (who studied and used it for work)… You can understand that comprehending and producing are two very different aspects of a language.</p>

<p>Thank you very much, I think that with your help I won’t have a lot of problems with the application! =)</p>

[MYOS1634]

<p>The SAT 2 French is only reading comprehension, grammar, and vocabulary. No writing and no speaking. :)</p>

[MarcoLoc]

<p>Yes but you said “you’ll have to talk a little bit about, 1-2 lines”
Doesn’t it mean that they are going to ask me (for example during an interview) to talk a little in French to make sure I know it?
Probably I misunderstood what you wanted to say =/</p>

[MYOS1634]

<p>By “speak about it” I mean on your application = write 1-2 lines to explain how you took that test, got an amazing score, yet weren’t even taking it - like, point out how smart you are, proof that high French score.
During an interview they may ask you how you got that score since you’re not taking it. They wouldn’t make you speak French. :)</p>

[MarcoLoc]

<p>Hi everyone again!
I just wanted to tell you that I scored 101 on the TOEFL (29R, 22L, 23S, 27W) and now I’m moving on to the last big trouble: the SAT.</p>

<p>I’m taking it in October and right now I’m practicing with the blue book. On the Math section I’m aiming for an almost perfect score (>780) also because it’s very easy. The problems arrive when it comes to the other two sections.
How much these are important for an international student?
Hypothetically, can a score of 600 CR, 800 M, 600 W (2000 Total) be good enough?</p>

<p>Thank you very much again!</p>

<p>Ciao!</p>

[katliamom]

<p>Math and CR are the most important. Focus on those. </p>

<p>Are they good enough? Depends. If you are aiming for selective schools and need a lot of financial aid, it should be higher. If you have money (up to $60,000 per year) 2000 will be good enough. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

[MarcoLoc]

<p>Thanks for your response.
Yes actually I need a lot of financial aid but most of the schools to which I’m applying offer need-based aid if admitted.</p>

<p>How much higher do you mean? 700 CR? In one week I think that my target could only be 650</p>

[MYOS1634]

<p>The schools that are need blind for internationals are ridiculously difficult to get into. Unless you’re ready to forget your goal of studying in the US (ie, you’re fine with: it’s either Ivy League or Italian local school,) you need to apply to some need aware schools that cover 100% need for admitted students.</p>