Italy to US - Need help for friend

Parents Forum
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<p>A friend who lives in London is working with his daughter who lives in Rome on college planning. She would like to attend school in the US. They are visiting in a few weeks and I'm trying to help them some research and information.</p>

<p>Daughter spent early years in the UK but has attended an International high school in Rome with an American curriculum. She has been in an IB program but is thinking about dropping it next year (her final year) and getting an "American diploma" as I think the IB is very challenging. I've been told she has taken a practice SAT and scored better than average but since I don't know the score it's hard to say what that really means. I'm also told she is not a super star student but more average though I know she is extraordinarly gifted in dance, photography, fashion and theatre. </p>

<p>They are looking at schools in the Northeast. She will be full pay.</p>

<p>I would like her to visit both larger, urban schools (Boston University, NYU, Fordham, maybe GW and American) and smaller liberal arts schools (Skidmore, Clarke, CT College.....) so she can feel the difference. I've also suggested she attend some formal admissions sessions and tours to hear directly from the schools what is needed to apply and to begin to form relationships with the staff person who handles the international applications. </p>

<p>She travels extensively as her family and friends live throughout Asia, Europe and the US. She is saavy and independent but will only be 17 when she starts college. (A gap year is not of interest.) </p>

<p>Any advice? I've successfully been through this process with my two kids but I'm not familiar with the international application process. Will she need to meet the same admissions standards at schools? Do some schools want full pay international kids? Should she stick with the IB program?</p>

<p>Help me help them!! Thanks.</p>

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<p>

Yes and yes. At some schools the international pool is more competitive but I think that’s more true of the very selective colleges which attract people from around the world. And right now all colleges are looking for full pay students.</p>

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<p>Also keep in mind that there are various types of international students:</p>

<p>Students who are not US Citizens/Permanent residents that attend school outside of the US</p>

<p>Students who are not US Citizens/Permanent residents that attend school with in the the US (most schools are not need blind to international students so the ability to pay will be a factor in the admissions process. However, it will not make up for deficiencies in academics/testing)</p>

<p>Students who are US Citizens/Permanent residents that attend school outside of the US
(While schools are need blind for these students in the admissions process, they are placed in the international pool of applicants and are counted as international students in the admissions stats).</p>

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<p>She is a non US citizen and has never lived in the US. </p>

<p>Any further guidance or ideas on college choices based on the info I gave would be very helpful.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

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<p>It is very hard to give you any additional information regarding the college choices based on the information that you gave. For all we know, they could all be extreme reaches and then we could list schools that may be matches, or sure bets based on her stats. </p>

<p>However, we are flying blind here. If we had her stats (GPA, SAT -CR+M) we would have a better idea as to how to direct you.</p>

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<p>You are missing a couple of interesting categories: “arty” LACs (i.e, those that attract a high percentage of students interested in fine and performing arts alongside a traditional college application), and LACs that are not urban but not isolated either, places with good access to cities without being right in them. And especially, where the two overlap, as with Sarah Lawrence, Bryn Mawr, Occidental, Goucher, maybe Emerson, maybe Pitzer, maybe Macalaster. </p>

<p>Also in the arty category, but more isolated: Bard (!!), Bennington (!!), Hampshire, Oberlin, Kenyon, Warren Wilson, Lawrence, maybe Bates, maybe Pitzer. Also consider Evergreen State College and Western Washington University in Washington state.</p>

<p>Places that are a lot more selective, like Swarthmore, Wesleyan, Vassar, or Williams, may not be worth considering given what you write about the kid’s academic abilities.</p>

<p>I think that IB or not will not matter for most of the colleges being discussed. At the more selective end of the spectrum, however, IB is probably a meaningful plus.</p>

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<p>If she’s gifted in dance, photography, fashion and theater, Barnard is a pretty obvious place to look, as would be most of the seven sisters, though they may be reaches. I second Bard, Bennington, and Goucher. I personally don’t see the need to look on the west coast, or even the midwest, as that would add a whole new layer of travel time for a kid who is still on the very young side.</p>

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<p>Yes, I hope to get some more concrete details on her standardized test scores (though this is only practice at this point) and grades. I’m not sure I’ll be able to understad a pure GPA though. Schools can calculate this differently. </p>

<p>I did state that they wanted to stick with the Northeast so several of the suggestions (that I also thought of and would have suggested) don’t fit. Others such as Goucher and Barnard are great. Though I didn’t get a good response when I asked about women’s schools I think Barnard could work. </p>

<p>My gut tells me that Vassar, Wesleyan and Swarthmore would be too reachy which is why I thought of Skidmore and Clarke. Again, I’ve been told she isn’t a super star student. </p>

<p>HHS - Thanks for the comment on the IB program. I really had no idea what to tell them. </p>

<p>If anyone has advice, other than school suggestions, on the international application process or how to make it work for a student, I’d appreciate any and all thoughts.</p>

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<p>I may be wrong, but I don’t think the colleges we are discussing, except for the most selective ones, are swamped with applications from artistic full-pay European girls. I think many of them would be very enthusiastic about admitting someone like that, and will be fairly forgiving of test scores, etc., as long as it looks like she could learn the ropes eventually.</p>

<p>Don’t overlook Sarah Lawrence. It has a great location – lovely, upscale suburban town, a 20-minute train ride from Grand Central Station. It has the kind of faculty, especially in the arts, when your campus is essentially on the NYC public transit system. Its alumni include, famously, Rahm Emanuel, who when he entered college was mainly interested in being a dancer.</p>

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<p>I can’t speak for your friend’s daughter’s qualifications, but there are surely a lot of full-pay internationals at Wellesley, from all over the place. I suspect they’d love more.</p>

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<p>I think you named some pretty viable schools. I also think we need a read on how sophisticated she is, how much she’d thrive in a big, vibrant city vs out in the burbs or some small, struggling city, miles/hours from a main airport, not much “culture” to speak of. American and GW- well, I think DC is a fabulous place to do college- so much swirling around. Clarke is wonderful, so many bright, empowered kids- but many are discouraged by Worcester, which, even if you know a few bright local spots, is quite down on its luck. There’s only so much you can settle for “x minutes from Boston.” Think about BC. </p>

<p>IB is impressive, due to its rigor. I don’t think switching to an American degree is an easy decision- she’s have to have some reasonable explanation- maybe more breadth in courses. In general, many great colleges like wealthy internationals.</p>

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<p>

I am not sure how Bryn Mawr made that list. We don’t have programs in fine arts or music; and theater, dancing and creative writing are only offered as minors. Good enough for the hobby artist, very limiting for someone who’s passionate about the arts.</p>

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<p>This thread hit close to home for me. I grew up in Rome as a non-American citizen and went to international schools with an American curriculum. I am wondering if this is the same school that OP’s friend’s daughter is attending as my school also has branches in London and Paris. My high school, many, many years ago, did not have an IB curriculum and I graduated with an American diploma. Shortly after, the school implemented the IB program and has been successful with that since.</p>

<p>The kids in my graduating class came from different countries and as such, went to colleges all over the world. Most went to the US for college and matriculated from schools ranging from community colleges to the Ivies. The international application process is virtually the same as an American student applying for college, although some schools, during my time, had a separate application form for international students. Financial aid, although possible, was hard to come by for non-American students and many were full pay.</p>

<p>I knew friends who were average/above average students in high school but managed to secure a spot in upper tier schools. One excelled in dance and, although her grades were not tippy top, was accepted at and graduated from Tisch School at NYU for BFA in Dance. Another matriculated from Sarah Lawrence in Theater. </p>

<p>In my opinion, students coming from international schools overseas have a certain appeal to adcoms who are looking for kids with interesting experiences to round out the incoming freshman class. Like any other application, aside from mentioning her passions I would also highlight experiences related to growing up in unusual circumstances. I agree that getting an IB diploma may not be as critical for the types of colleges for which the girl is suited. She may also feel more comfortable attending schools with a fair amount of international students and not so much for those with a homogeneous student body. I must think that being full pay helps tremendously in admissions as well. </p>

<p>I wish I could have given you more up-to-date information but I hope my insights have been helpful. Best of luck!</p>

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<p>Thanks! These posts have all been really helpful and encouraging. I do think she is a very interesting kid with a whole lot to add to a student body. I hope to find out more about her high school courses, grades and test scores when she’s here for the visit. It seems everyone assumes she’ll want a big city (NYC, DC, Boston) as she lives in Rome, visits her Dad in London regularly and does a fair amount of traveling but we all know kids who want to try something totally different for college. I also think her schooling has been in private, small schools with lots of teacher interaction and I don’t get the feeling she’s ready for a “sink or swim” on your own kind of place.</p>

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<p>If she is currently attending a US-curriculum international school, her own college counselor has access to years worth of data that should clearly indicate exactly where she is likely to be admitted. If for some reason that counselor has fallen down on the job, her best resource in Italy would be the closest office of EducationUSA. The counselors there are expert at helping students in Italy find good places to study in the US.</p>

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<p>Ooh,does she go to St Stephen’s or Marymount?</p>

<p>I was in the same situation a year ago, although my final high school years did not happen in Rome, and the ones that did were at a British international…</p>

<p>But things to look out for in international admissions from Europe, especially where the parents weren’t US -educated:</p>

<p>1) The IB is a BIG PLUS. Whereas I would not recommend it for UK/EU admissions or for people who do significantly better in one area of knowledge than all the others, for US it is both broad and rigorous enough to make adcoms really impressed. I believe people who do the IB diploma get a 0.5 added o their GPA at some of the schools I applied to.</p>

<p>2) Don’t worry about SATs so much because internationals get leeway, since we don’t train to take standardized tests from an early age</p>

<p>3) Tell her to start preparing her apps early. International apps are really overwhelming, not to mention US apps are so much more overwhelming than any other Uni apps</p>

<p>4) what citizenship does she have? If she’s British, it’s kinda meh, but if she’s Italian, it can be an asset since the us doesn’t get a lot of Italian applicants</p>

<p>5) If she’s good at arts and full pay, NYU is definitely a shoe-in. Also look at the UC system. Basically, being a full pay internatnal is a huge benefit at all except the topmost schools</p>

<p>I’d say, since she goes to an American school, the max of your contribution should be showing her around. Although, do ask her why she wants to go to the US specifically, and also inspire her to think about the logistics. She won’t be seeing a lot of her friends and family and Rome if she goes to study in the US - 10 hour flights are bank breaking and a pain. Not to mention visas, work permits, all the opportunities she will not be eligible for as an intenational… If she’s an EU citizen that has only lived in the EU, she won’t know what a pain it is to get hired for a highly competitive unpaid internship in the arts, for example, when your employer is required to send in a ****load of forms. Also, prestige of the school will matter, because a lot of these LACs are only known regionally. Basically, if she’s gonna do this, she has to have a plan.</p>

<p>p.s. whereas people doing a rigorous math science IB curriculum often benefit from dropping because the other requirements take time, but I have a feeling she’s not, in which case - especially since it’s Italy - I have a feeling this might be peer pressure. Don’t drop the IB. It’s highly advantageous.</p>

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<p>Smaller private colleges might work for her & there are a slew of them along the East coast. Also see if religious affliation is part of the consideration & that can guide the search.</p>