It's Time We Did Something

<p>"This makes it a bit harder, don't you think?"</p>

<p>Harder for what? Not sure what you mean by this.</p>

<p>OK, let me modify that a bit:</p>

<p>Lying and grabbing for more power, with no regard for whom they oppress or deceive in the process.</p>

<p>I don't think that ALL politicians ALWAYS lie. It might be more accurate to say that MANY, if not MOST, politicians lie SOMETIMES, when it suits their purposes. That includes the Democrats too. It's sort of par for the course. That's why it's so refreshing to find someone who, at this point, SEEMS to have integrity.</p>

<p>The fact that bush lied so many times, while claiming to be a Christian, and offering truth as part of his campaign, is reprehensible.</p>

<p>What I'm saying is that your standard is almost impossible to follow. Let's say Bush didn't lie, but instead had bad intelligence. Should he, despite in all good faith believing that the US's interests were threatened, not go to war?</p>

<p>You'd say no, because then he'd later look like he had lied.</p>

<p>The problem with these black and white standards is that we live in a world of gray intelligence and legal and moral standards. </p>

<p>
[quote]
I don't think that ALL politicians ALWAYS lie.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think it's safe to say that every president has had to lie when it comes to sensitive secrets. And I don't hold them in disdain for it, either.</p>

<p>I don't see how you can claim that a president who doesn't even read his briefs had any intelligence at all.</p>

<p>It is a joke to think that bush had anything to do with the decision. The Iraq war was planned long before 911, and probably long before bush got into office. That's why they pushed him thru. They needed a puppet.</p>

<p>bush gets too much of the credit AND too much of the blame.</p>

<p>"I think it's safe to say that every president has had to lie when it comes to sensitive secrets. And I don't hold them in disdain for it, either."</p>

<p>I agree with this statement. But, if the president overall has integrity and the people know he has the country's best interests in mind, they are more forgiving. However, if it's obvious his interests lie with big multi-national corporations, that is a different matter entirely.</p>

<p>lealdragon,</p>

<p>Conspiracy is too easy of an answer to this. For one, it takes it out of everyone's hands and puts in in the hands of shadowy conspirators. </p>

<p>Regardless, you're missing the point I think. Most people don't believe your interpretation. Should a president who sees a threat, whether or not the lealdragons see them as puppets or whatnot, have their hands tied?</p>

<p>I don't know why you're bringing up the 911 truth movement. This has nothing to do with that. Plenty of people who don't question 911 still believe that bush overstepped his power with Iraq. And, even b4 I started questioning 911, I believed him to be a puppet. It's very obvious.</p>

<p>lealdragon,</p>

<p>I'm not bringing up the 9/11 "truth" movement per se, but your tendency to assume that things aren't simple but instead incredibly complicated.</p>

<p>How is it "obvious" that Bush is a puppet? Provide examples and evidence. Speculation is not enough.</p>

<p>Bad intelligence=no action. How dare he throw away the lives of 3000 men and women bsaed on "bad intelligence"? Did he have ANY intelligence? Was there ANY connection between Al Quaeda and Iraq? Absolutely not. Were there ANY WMDs found in Iraq? Absolutely not. Were people being oppressed in Iraq? Absolutely. But that's not our business. Why do WE have to be the world police? </p>

<p>If he had any doubts about the intelligence he got, he should never have acted on it in the first place. This involves the lives of people in the military. He shouldn't be so eager to go to war when there are people's lives at stake. It's Bush's responsibility to prove BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT that what intelligence he had was true and sound, especially because his decision to go through with this protracted war cost us trillions of dollars and 3000 lives. I don't object to Afghanistan, even though I have doubts about that too. Why did Bush invade Afghanistan when Bin Laden was a Saudi? No really. I think this whole thing was planned when Bush I took office.</p>

<p>It is common knowledge (frequently addressed by various media and easily observable) that he cannot answer questions on his own without a teleprompter. He despises any sort of event in which he must speak candidly without a teleprompter - he is known for that. Why? Because he does not know the answers himself. He says only what he is instructed to say. He speaks only in platitudes and repeats the same platitudes over and over, as if they answered the question, but they do not. They just sound good but when analyzed hold no substance. That is his style, always. He never says anything of substance. He avoids difficult questions and acts insulted if anyone dares to questions him. He looks scared when confronted, but rather than giving an original answer, he reaches for the same old tired platitudes.</p>

<p>He bombed the first debate with Kerry, because Kerry thinks and bush does not. So, they rigged the 2nd debate with a device so they could whisper the answers in his ear. Even before I heard about the transmitter device, when I was watching the debate, I noticed that he seemed to be listening, you know how people **** their heads to the side? before answering:</p>

<p><a href="http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/10/29/bulge/index_np.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/10/29/bulge/index_np.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/10/08/bulge/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/10/08/bulge/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Undoubtedly you will think this is another conspiracy theory. But how do you explain the device? That is CHEATING, plain and simple.</p>

<p>Once I was watching him on tv and he was asked something and he replied, 'Well Mr. Cheney called me up and he said, Mr. President, this is what we are going to do. We are going to...' and then he caught himself and he started backpedaling. He immediately looked flustered and he said something like 'I mean, Mr. Cheney said, Mr. President, what do you want us to do?' and the the interviewer moved on to another question, but a couple of minutes later bush brought it up again, and it was just SO obvious - he said 'I just want to make sure you understand that Mr. Cheney did NOT tell me what to do. I told HIM what to do, because I am the decider.' (paraphrased - I do not remember the exact words so don't quote me on this, but I saw it myself and I was astounded at the blatancy of him sticking his foot in his mouth and then trying to undo the damage.)</p>

<p>There's lots more. Even without the device incident, c'mon, just observer the guy. Compare him to ANY other politician. It cannot be dismissed as just having poor speaking skills. They guy cannot THINK on his own! He never would have made it without being propped up.</p>

<p>I remember during the 1st election tv coverage, they showed gw and jeb sitting on a couch. bush looked SCARED. That was my impression at the time. jeb, otoh, looked totally smug. At that time they were calling it for Gore. But jeb said, assuredly, 'No, gw WILL win Florida.' And he did because it was rigged for him.</p>

<p>That's not conspiracy theory. I saw the footage on CSPAN about all the bags of votes that were found in black counties AFTER they had quit counting the votes! More than enough to have give the election to Gore.</p>

<p>A couple of months ago I saw Daddy Bush on tv and he started crying. Surely you saw that? He was talking about how jeb lost the election for governor and he just started bawling. Really bizarre. My hubby and I thought it was because jeb was the one intended to become president. That was the plan all along. But jeb didn't make it so he had to go with the idiot, f***-up son. And now look at what a mess he has made, despite their best intentions to prop him up. He's like a kid given the controls to a computer network. It has gone to his head and his ego has skyrocketed.</p>

<p>All of this is purely my own speculation based on my own personal observations, of course. Needless to say you will now accuse me of being a paranoid conspiracy theorist. You would be wrong about that, because I had these opinions about bush WAY before I ever thought there was any truth to the 911 stuff. And there are PLENTY of people who feel as I do about bush (actually, the majority of the country, since his approval rating is so low) who do NOT believe the 911 stuff.</p>

<p>You can dislike Gore & Kerry all you want, but when compared side-by-side, both of them are articulate and act like politicians. You might not like what they say, but at least they can THINK on their own and talk openly. Observe footage of bush. He cannot do that. Platitudes. That's all he ever says.</p>

<p>edit: future, I agree completely! USLAri: connect the dots.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Were there ANY WMDs found in Iraq? Absolutely not. Were people being oppressed in Iraq? Absolutely. But that's not our business. Why do WE have to be the world police?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Iraq was known to have chemical weapons and Hussein was known for wanting to pursue further procurement of WMD. </p>

<p>Barbara Walter at UCSD argues that it was a dual breakdown of communication: The US had no guarantee that Iraq would capitulate or stop pursuing WMD, and Iraq had no guarantee that the US wouldn't invade regardless.</p>

<p>It's easy to blame the US, but don't forget that Iraq played a role as well. </p>

<p>
[quote]
f he had any doubts about the intelligence he got, he should never have acted on it in the first place. This involves the lives of people in the military. He shouldn't be so eager to go to war when there are people's lives at stake. It's Bush's responsibility to prove BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT that what intelligence he had was true and sound, especially because his decision to go through with this protracted war cost us trillions of dollars and 3000 lives.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I guess you're just going to ignore that the intelligence at the time seemed sound? That most of the UN agreed that it seemed legit? </p>

<p>
[quote]
I don't object to Afghanistan, even though I have doubts about that too. Why did Bush invade Afghanistan when Bin Laden was a Saudi? No really. I think this whole thing was planned when Bush I took office.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Why'd we go to war with Germany when Hitler was an Austrian? Why'd Britain invade the Falklands and not Argentina?</p>

<p>Afghanistan was harboring terrorists and the Taliban was known for assisting bin Ladin. That didn't seem like a hard sell to me.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I remember during the 1st election tv coverage, they showed gw and jeb sitting on a couch. bush looked SCARED.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This couldn't have anything to do with the fact that GW was the one looking to lose the election? I'm sure even some unflagging types might show some consternation at the thought of losing the presidency.</p>

<p>Your whole argument is based on conjecture, and a fallacy of propositional logic. Just because Bush is poor at public speaking and has made gaffes, he must be a tool. </p>

<p>Assumptions are so dangerous, especially when underestimating someone with so much power. I don't discount the possibility that Bush may just be a big fat tool, but you cannot say with certainty that he is. </p>

<p>
[quote]
You can dislike Gore & Kerry all you want, but when compared side-by-side, both of them are articulate and act like politicians.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Who said I dislike Gore and Kerry? Just because I don't froth at the mouth at the name "Bush" doesn't mean that I'm necessarily anti-Democrat. Again with the assumptions.</p>

<p>
[quote]
And there are PLENTY of people who feel as I do about bush (actually, the majority of the country, since his approval rating is so low)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Oh man, more assumptions. Yes, everyone dislikes Bush's policies for the same reasons you do. </p>

<p>The problem with assumptions is that you let the slipperiest of slopes take you wherever your imagination will let you. You need to stand back and let good old Mr. Occam keep you from going too far. Many people disapprove of Bush because of the war. But many workers are miffed because he's been seen as anti-labor. Many Democrats will disapprove just on principle.</p>

<p>That leaves an interesting issue: why do people disapprove. Without that data, it's hard to paint an accurate picture. And that's why I won't assume anything. Besides, you know what they say what happens when we assume things...</p>

<p>Ah, I was about to say that there is no way one can provide 'evidence' for an OPINION, but then I just saw in your post where you asked for evidence.</p>

<p>Evidence that he's a puppet?</p>

<p>Sheesh. Can't you ever form an opinion of your own?</p>

<p>I will not claim to have conclusive 'evidence' of something that, imo, is blatantly obvious. Why do you not comment on his propensity for spouting nothing but platitudes?</p>

<p>"Just because Bush is poor at public speaking and has made gaffes, he must be a tool."</p>

<p>Actually, yes it DOES mean he's a puppet. Else, how could he have gotten where he is? C'mon, think about this. Good public speaking skills are a NECESSITY for the job. I've heard this argument countless times by people trying to make excuses for him, but I think it's a lame argument. That's like saying someone doesn't have to have good persuasive skills and good memory for details to be an attorney. Uh, yeah, actually they DO need those skills or they will not go very far. Just as a physicist needs proficiency in math. Certain skills are simply REQUIRED for the job! Good heavens, on a college forum of all places, this should be obvious! There are countless politicians who DO have all the necessary skills who never make it very far for other reasons, but for someone to make it all the way to the top? It flies in the face of reason.</p>

<p>As for WMDs, check out this excellent book:</p>

<p>Worse Than Watergate: The Secret Presidency of George W. Bush (Hardcover)
by John W. Dean</p>

<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Worse-Than-Watergate-Secret-Presidency/dp/031600023X/sr=1-1/qid=1168491991/ref=sr_1_1/002-5970522-5421614?ie=UTF8&s=books%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.amazon.com/Worse-Than-Watergate-Secret-Presidency/dp/031600023X/sr=1-1/qid=1168491991/ref=sr_1_1/002-5970522-5421614?ie=UTF8&s=books&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"The punchline of Dean's book is that the Bush Administration systematically manufactured, manipulated and twisted intelligence, and lied to the American people to justify its war on Iraq. This is a high crime, an impeachable offense. It has all been well-documented (see in particular "The Lie Factory" on the Mother Jones website, about the Pentagon's Office of Special Plans staffed by neoconservatives and reporting directly to Cheney, getting most of their junk intel from Chalabi, the Iraqi con-man in exile), and Dean adds nothing new to the story other than pointing to the logical legal consequence of impeachment.</p>

<p>Most of the book chronicles the amazing extent and nature of secrecy in the Administration's actions, including such things as Cheney's energy panel. Why is it that the Bush Administration was so reluctant for 9/11 to be investigated? What are they hiding? Why was a whole section on the Saudis blacked out of the Congressional investigation report? The most amazing revelation I found in Dean's book (though it had apparently been reported somewhere) is that the COG was activated after 9/11. COG (Continuity of Government) was a secret plan for reconstituting the U.S. government in event of a nuclear war with the Soviet Union. Hundreds of federal employees were relocated to secret bunkers after 9/11, as part of the secret COG plan! What else is the Bush Administration doing that the public knows nothing about?</p>

<p>Dean nails it right on the head when he points out a massive lie of the 2000 election campaign -- remember Bush saying that the U.S. should be humble, and not intervene militarily around the world? (This was a criticism of Clinton's interventions in Somalia, Bosnia, Haiti & Kosovo.) In reality, the foreign policy team he was assembling -- Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, & Co. -- had put together an aggressive doctrine under Bush Sr. back in 1992 in the form of the infamous Defense Guidance Doctrine, and was proceeding to implement it once again. The preventive war doctrine promulgated in Bush's National Defense Strategy is the revival of the 1992 strategy. It is a pervasive misunderstanding to refer to this doctrine as PREEMPTIVE -- preemption applies to a threat that already exists, attacking "them" before "they" can attack "us." But the Bush Doctrine is clearly PREVENTIVE in nature -- the whole point is to attack and destroy threats BEFORE THEY EXIST. How many WMDs have been found in Iraq? ZERO. How much solid evidence has been amassed of any Iraqi link to al-Qaeda before the U.S. invasion? NONE. The Bush Administration knew its case was weak and shakey (that Powell presentation to the U.N. was pitiful) but remember Bush's statements to the effect that we better not wait until we know for sure. They actually wanted to overthrow Saddam from Day 1, and 9/11 provided the convenient pretext. This is an incredibly dangerous, arrogant point of view, and is already backfiring on the U.S. What if it became the international norm? How many wars would suddenly break out tomorrow if all suspicious countries followed Bush's lead and resorted to preventive war?"</p>

<p>"...he weighs in impressively by building a very strong circumstantial case for the investigation and possible prosecution of President George W. Bush for criminal actions that Dean terms to be indeed, "worst than those of Watergate". Culling from public records and the recollections of other eye-witnesses, Dean shows how Mr. Bush has systematically exaggerated, embellished, and engineered a series of preverifications and outright lies to the American public in an effort to convince us of the need for military intervention in Iraq.</p>

<p>Dean argues that in asking Congress for a Joint Resolution authorizing the use of American force in Iraq, President Bush made a number of "unequivocal public statements" regarding the reasons this country needed to pursue military force in pursuit of national interests. Dean, now an academic and noted author, shows how through tradition, presidential statements regarding issues of national security are held to an expectation of "the highest standard of truthfulness". Therefore, according to Dean, no president can simply "stretch, twist or distort" the facts of a case and then expect to avoid resulting consequences. Citing historical precedents, Dean shows how Lyndon Johnson's distortions regarding the truth about the war in Vietnam led to his own subsequent withdrawal for candidacy for re-election in 1968, and how Richard Nixon's attempted cover-up of the truth about Watergate forced his own resignation.</p>

<p>Dean contends that while President Bush should indeed receive the benefit of the doubt, he must also be held accountable for explaining how it is that he made such a string of unambiguous and confident pronouncements to the American people (and to the world as well) regarding the existence of WMD, none of which have been substantiated in the subsequent searches that have been conducted by either Untied Nations nor American Military investigators. Dean explains how the vetting process for any public staement is processed within the executive branch.</p>

<p>[...] Moreover, Dean contends, others such as Donald Rumsfeld were even more emphatic in claiming Saddam Hussein had WMD, even claiming to know the locations as being in the Tikrit and Baghdad areas. Finally, he concludes, given the huge implicit political risk to Mr. Bush, it would inconceivable that Mr. Bush would be so brazen as to make such statements without some intelligence to back them up.</p>

<p>Yet, according to Mr. Dean, we are left with a dilemma; either Mr. Bush's statements are grossly inaccurate, given the tons and tons of chemical agents he claimed Saddam possessed which can be neither located nor substantiated, or Mr. Bush has deliberately misled us. How do we reconcile what seem to be quite unequivocal statements from both the President and his agents and the evidence to date regarding the existence of WMD? According to Mr. Dean, there are two possibilities; first, that there is something devilishly wrong with the current administration's national security operations, a prospect Dean finds hard to swallow, or, second, the President has deliberately misled the American people and the world regarding the evidence supporting taking preemptive military action against the sovereign nation of Iraq.</p>

<p>Bluntly stated, if Mr. Bush led this country into war based on bogus intelligence data, he is liable under the Constitution for manipulation and deliberate misuse of that data under the "high crimes" statute of that document, given the fact it is a felony to defraud the United States through such a conspiratorial action. According to Mr. Dean, It is time for both Congress and the American people to demand of Mr. Bush the same kind of high-minded honesty he pledged to us under the oath of office. This is an important book, and one I urge you to read! ..."</p>

<p>What do you have to say about him being wired during the debate? And the incident in which he admitted that Cheney told him what to do?</p>

<p><a href="http://www.serendipity.li/wot/bushflub.ht%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.serendipity.li/wot/bushflub.ht&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
Ah, I was about to say that there is no way one can provide 'evidence' for an OPINION, but then I just saw in your post where you asked for evidence.</p>

<p>Evidence that he's a puppet?</p>

<p>Sheesh. Can't you ever form an opinion of your own?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm careful with opinions. I reserve judgment for only when a situation has presented to me enough evidence for me to feel comfortable with actually offering such a potentially dangerous thing as an opinion. </p>

<p>For one, I'm a social scientist-in training. I'm taught to approach every problem from multiple angles and ONLY AFTER tons of research and analysis do I make an argument about anything. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Actually, yes it DOES mean he's a puppet. Else, how could he have gotten where he is? C'mon, think about this. Good public speaking skills are a NECESSITY for the job. I've heard this argument countless times by people trying to make excuses for him, but I think it's a lame argument.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Not all presidents have been good public speakers. Bush Sr. was notorious for gaffes, Coolidge was a poor speaker, Nixon was a decent speaker but had issues with presentation and image, and it's arguable whether or not Carter hit public image on the head.</p>

<p>Compared to Clinton, Bush is terrible. Compared to many other men who've made it to the position of POTUS, Bush isn't that shocking. I'm not saying he's a good speaker or a president, however.</p>

<p>Besides, many esteemed political scientists (look into John Zaller's work on the issue) argue that much of the process is invariably driven by elites to begin with. This would mean that Bush is not an outlier, but in fact just another dot on the trend line. </p>

<p>
[quote]
There are countless politicians who DO have all the necessary skills who never make it very far for other reasons, but for someone to make it all the way to the top? It flies in the face of reason.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>All that's required to become president are votes. Lots and lots of votes. Party elites, even after the McGovern reforms, have recognized this. You honestly believe that Kerry was the most qualified person in Washington for the job?</p>

<p>I can name at least a few people with better pedigrees. But what matters isn't pedigree per se, but electability. </p>

<p>
[quote]
COG (Continuity of Government) was a secret plan for reconstituting the U.S. government in event of a nuclear war with the Soviet Union. Hundreds of federal employees were relocated to secret bunkers after 9/11, as part of the secret COG plan! What else is the Bush Administration doing that the public knows nothing about?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>What did the Clinton administration do? Reagan? JFK?</p>

<p>Hell, if you want to get into a presidency that hornswoggled the American people, look at JFK's. I still don't see how this is pertinent to Iraq or Bush's being a so-called tool.</p>

<p>As for the book review, it's cute, but not exactly telling. For one, Dean isn't what I'd call an impartial observer (he's anything but.) Moreover, I wouldn't exactly call Dean a political scientist, despite his experience in politics.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Bluntly stated, if Mr. Bush led this country into war based on bogus intelligence data, he is liable under the Constitution for manipulation and deliberate misuse of that data under the "high crimes" statute of that document, given the fact it is a felony to defraud the United States through such a conspiratorial action.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is questionable based on rulings by the SCOTUS. But why should that stand in the way of a good book? :)</p>

<p>Do you honestly believe that bush ever would have made it without Daddy and Jeb?</p>

<p>And, it's not just about good speaking skills - that means HOW one speaks. I am not talking about that. I am referring to something quite different - the ability to THINK for himself. If he said something intelligent but with poor delivery, that would be one thing. But he simply repeats the same platitudes over and over. Watch him on video with an open mind. Compare what he says with what ANYONE ELSE says. Can you see the difference? The guy dances around the question with platitudes. No substance.</p>

<p>"I'm taught to approach every problem from multiple angles and ONLY AFTER tons of research and analysis do I make an argument about anything."</p>

<p>I'm glad to hear you are doing research on 911. <wink> I admire that.</wink></p>

<p>
[quote]
Do you honestly believe that bush ever would have made it without Daddy and Jeb?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>His father? No. Jeb? Maybe not.</p>

<p>So what? Bush's policies have been fairly different both in scope and character from much of Bush Sr.'s policies. Again, just because A -> B, doesn't mean that B -> C. </p>

<p>Clinton had powerful backers within the party. Does that make him a tool as well? Heck, just get past the primary, most political scientists believe, you need to have tons of party elite support. This means that every politician is just Bush over and over. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Watch him on video with an open mind.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Ah, and more assumptions. A trend, perhaps? You're assuming that I don't. You're assuming that just because I came to a different conclusion than you, I must have some closed mind. I love it. </p>

<p>
[quote]
I'm glad to hear you are doing research on 911. <wink> I admire that.

[/quote]
</wink></p>

<p>Ah, personal attacks thinly veiled as humor. The mainstay of any message board.</p>

<p>You see, there's a key difference that you're missing: I've already researched the 9/11 conspiracies. Watched Loose Change. Read some arguments.</p>

<p>The entire argument doesn't hold much water to begin with, so I don't bother. Again, I don't bother reading every moon landing conspiracy website just to conclude that the moon landing was real. Simple logic can lead me in that direction. Applying Occam's Razor to a situation doesn't make me a hypocrite, either, so don't start.</p>

<p>Look, it's not about a president's backers. Of course they always have backers. It's about a very subjective perception which is not provable and therefore we will never agree. The gadget in his jacket is evidence for what appears obvious, but it would not matter if I had never seen that gadget. I am NOT basing my opinion on that. (What do YOU think the gadget was, btw? You never did say. Nor did you comment on the incident when he admitted that Cheney told him what to do. You conveniently don't comment when I make a good point. This happened towards the end of the 911 discussion too.)</p>

<p>When I see bush, I see an empty head, basking in the all the glory and power, but...empty. To me, it is ridiculously obvious that he is not thinking for himself. If you do not see what I see, no amount of discussion will change your mind. But don't ask me to 'prove' it because I don't have to - it's that obvious. You don't agree. Fine. I really don't care and it doesn't affect my opinion of him. My brother thinks bush was raised up by God to save our country. How he gets that, I have no idea. But he's entitled to his opinion, just as you are and I am.</p>

<p>I consider the idea of bush being charge and actually having any policies at all completely laughable!</p>

<p>Re: 911 - I have never minded the fact that we disagree. I am ok with disagreeing with people. What has always perterbed me about your discussion is your attitude that anyone who disagrees with YOUR assessment is whacko. That, I find offensive.</p>

<p>btw you never did respond to my last post about Occam's Razor, a couple of months back. The one about applying it to the big picture vs the details. I thought it was rather well-crafted, actually.</p>

<p>"Ah, personal attacks thinly veiled as humor. The mainstay of any message board."</p>

<p>Sure, I admit it. But it's mild compared to what got flung at me during the 911 discussion. Those insults weren't veiled at all. They were blatantly nasty.</p>

<p>UCLAri, you have not responded to what I said about the platitudes, and THAT is one of the main issues that has formed my opinion. </p>

<p>I will ask you directly: Can you deny that he speaks only in platitudes?</p>

<p>Bush's common idiot persona appeals to the American people.</p>

<p>What does that say about the American people?</p>

<p>Pathetic.</p>