<p>Hi all. My D's hs does not rank. Here in NJ, merit aid for the state colleges is done mostly from a chart of rank and SAT scores. I am hopeful that D will be somewhere on the chart with the SAT score, but we're in the dark about her approximate rank. The school will provide the colleges with my D's decile or quartile toward the purposes of scholarship assignment and service academy admissions, but will not provide parents with the same info for planning purposes. Her guidance counselor flatly refuses to even hint at where she stands, rank-wise. I don't know if she is in the top 15%, 20%, 40%....we just don't know. When I asked her where my D fits in the scheme of things, she will not even give a clue. She says she's not allowed by the hs to divulge that information. She won't even give me a range of where certain GPA's might fall...as in a 2.0--2.5 hits the bottom 30%. Or the middle 50%. Or that 3.8 hits the top 10%. I have no clue. Anyone got any advice about this? Are you all in the same boat?</p>
<p>Sounds weird. My DD's school also does not officially rank but gives deciles. I assume they would tell me DD's decile if I asked....hmm. (She's a junior so we haven't needed to know it yet.) </p>
<p>Maybe they have told the staff not to reveal rankings, and the GC is just being overzealous? What if you asked the head of guidance, the principal, or the superintendant?</p>
<p>Sounds as if GC is on some type of power trip. I'd approach the principal, or Dean of Students, or whoever is GC's boss to discuss this policy of witholding info. You're in a NJ high school & it's well known that rank is crucial for college $$$ (and admissions) in our public U network. Leaving you in the dark, unable to plan or prepare, is not serving the student well. If the h.s. doesn't cooperate, it would force you to approach the Board of Ed & have the secretive policy changed. Good luck!</p>
<p>Our HS in NJ has exactly the same ranking policy as yours, so I feel your pain. But knowing the quality of many public high schools in suburban NJ, I do think that if your D's rank were very high both she and you would probably know it by now. First, look at her level of math and how that compares to other students. Has she been tracked at least 2 years above grade level? For ex., did she complete Algebra I and Geometry in 7th and 8th grade? Does your HS offer a lot of honors and AP classes? If so, to have a top 5% rank she'd have to have taken/be taking all the honors and AP classes available and be getting mostly A's. If the GPA is calculated out of 4.0 with weighting for honors (like 4.25 or 4.50) and AP classes (4.5 or 5.0), then she's likely not in the upper sphere if she doesn't have a GPA over 4.0. For top 5-10%, I'd guess she needs a GPA over 3.85. But obviously, without knowing which HS it would be hard to say. </p>
<p>Lastly, make sure that Rutgers, TCNJ, etc. are still offering that scholarship. I was under the impression that after Corzine's budget cuts they honored the offer for the class of 2010, but would be unlikely to have the funding to continue to offer that money in the future.</p>
<p>This is one of my absolute pet peeves. I think in the OP's case (as possibly in the case of our h.s., too) it may be that there's a CIA-like cloud of secrecy about divulging rank. Word on the street is that this high school (and theoretically every high school) does know rank. And clearly a simple calculator can determine that with little effort, even for schools with somewhat complex weighting formulas. I've been told that at our high school, rank is "just not written down." (Or discussed)</p>
<p>How then, you ask, does the school every year manage to come up with at least 3 awards dependent on ranking: Val, + 2 outside awards given to the highest student in 2 different areas?</p>
<p>And btw, even if the staff claims/pretends "not to know," believe me (as a teacher) the teachers know, and how. They talk among themselves about such things.</p>
<p>But my annoyance (OP) is the same as yours: merit awards! (1)Families need to know if S or D is even in the range for that, or why waste the effort?
(2) Scholarship apps often ask for that info. (For that matter, some college apps ask for that info.)</p>
<p>As for a copy of the school profile that the guidance department sends to colleges along with students' transcripts.</p>
<p>If your school's profile looks like my kids' school profiles (in another system that does not rank), it will indicate what percentage of students get GPAs in various ranges. You can use this information, in combination with your daughter's GPA, to estimate her approximate rank.</p>
<p>If this is the school policy, I suggest that you go to the school board to discuss the issue. For prospective applicants, some idea of class rank is an important part of the puzzle. In order for your child to begin winnowing down possible college choices she needs to have some information regarding class rank if the hs gives some sort of range to colleges in its guidance office submittals. </p>
<p>Now if the hs has a policy of giving out no ranking information to colleges ever, I suppose your student does not need it either. She can begin her screening based on SAT scores, gpa, AP courses, etc.</p>
<p>I put a call in to the head of guidance. She deals with the college admissions. I haven't heard back yet. I know that the GC is being overzealous, because this school is extremely tight with what GCs can and can't do. For example, if there is a problem with a class and you want your child switched out, it practically takes an act of congress to do it. The GC's smile and say thier hands are tied. And I believe they are. They give no help at all, and when a GC really agrees with whatever my concern is, he/she has encouraged me to take it to the district level as my only recourse. I'm sure that they would get into trouble if they did something the powers that be did not approve of. What a way to run a school! All I am after is what is available to colleges....my D's approximate standing. I am not happy at the prospect of spending all the time and money sending out unrealistic applications! One of the ideas of not ranking is to avoid the stress and high level competition at the very top. My D is not there, so a decile would be absolutely fine. Even a quartile is better than nothing. Jeeeeez! Why do they make everything so difficult!</p>
<p>Sounds as if it's the Head of School who's on the Power Trip, more than the GC!</p>
<p>Boy, have you got that right! I love her GC. She's a wonderful woman who seems to really want to do the best for her kids, and seems frustrated at these stupid policies.</p>
<p>My son's school does not rank. He applied to Rutgers and the school asked the GC for a ranking, which she provided to them. He got a merit scholarship of $5000 OOS. I never asked her what info she provided, any more than I asked to see his recommendations. This sounds like a school district policy issue, not a GC issue, bit you should take a look at the NACAC web site to see the code of practices for GC's.</p>
<p>Colleges have to deal with high schools that don't rank on their applications. I've seen those forms--for high schools that don't rank, the GC is asked to estimate into which decile your student would fall. Maybe the GC department makes those determinations for college app purposes, but does not "officially" disclose rankings.</p>
<p>If so, then maybe the GC could send by letter to the scholarship committee what that ranking or % ranking is without disclosing it to YOU.</p>
<p>I wouldn't feel compelled to see my D's recommendations. I just want to know her approximate standing to figure out what schools she should apply to. Right now, the school's answer is "apply to some schools, and if she gets in and gets merit money it will be a nice surprise."</p>
<p>Same deal here (NJ public, does not rank) but we are given decile information. When we visited Rutgers I asked if the matrix was inflexible and I was told, yes it was. I believe the merit scholarship matrix, which plotted class rank % vs SAT scores only went to 10%, so if a student was not in the top 10% of his class there was no chance of merit aid, no matter what the numerical GPA, no matter what the SAT score. Also, "DECILE" information is not enough, since the matrix has a break at the 5% level.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, I believe TCNJ has eliminated the matrix, so that they can use a little discretion in the awarding of merit scholarships, taking into consideration the rigor of a program and the competitive nature of certain high schools. </p>
<p>And of course, there is a big question about the future of any merit awards from NJ public universities. A recent editorial in the Star Ledger blasted TCNJ for their arguments in favor of merit aid.</p>
<p>Ellenemope---that's exactly what they are doing. I only want to know to figure out if she might be eligible for some merit money (again, it's done on a table of Rank and SAT) to help us plan for tuition. But with the budget cuts, it might be a moot point anyway.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>I only want to know to figure out if she might be eligible for some merit money <<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>I guess you'll find out soon enough. HOpe it's great news!</p>
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Right now, the school's answer is "apply to some schools, and if she gets in and gets merit money it will be a nice surprise."
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How obnoxious! Build up false hopes...put more stress & deadlines into a busy kid's life...callously suggest spending someone else's $$$ on application fees. </p>
<p>I can't imagine the policy hasn't been challenged before!</p>
<p>The problem, ellen, (always loved your screen name) is that some scholarship apps get more specific than that. I don't know about these particular colleges listed, but I have recently come across some colleges of interest that limit the award to the top 5%, in another case the top 3%. Deciles don't always provide enough info.</p>
<p>Very true, epiphany. But this is even worse. The data is not being revealed to the parent so realistic planning can be done. Out town just switched to deciles after a long, drawn out debate over how best to present the students. I don't know if deciles are the best option, but at least if that is the ranking system in place, the student & family are given the decile information. It's crazy to keep it hidden.</p>
<p>My d's school doesn't rank, so I have this on my list of questoins for our sophomore meeting with the GC next month. I don't know how the school handles merit/admissions college applications that expect details on rank from the high school. I'll know soon enough, but generally this all-girl Catholic has policies in place that enhance a girl's profile, rather than harm it. Tanya's school seems to be inflexible just because they can.</p>
<p>I don't know why such info is SO top secret. At our high school, your rank in the class is printed on your transcript. A kid can ask any teacher to print out an unofficial transcript for them. </p>
<p>I suppose that the school district is worried about students (read "parents") who will try to game the system or waste the GC and administration's time with complaints about the results. See all the Val/Sal threads on CC...</p>
<p>I haven't seen at our local high school where the kids in the top 10 (students, not %) have refused to cooperate with each other or become cutthroat because of a desire to jump in the rankings.</p>