<p>This message evolved on another thread but merits its own discussion. ("Anyone who Attends, Wishes to...........") You could read the last few posts between "pizzahut" and myself to provide a point of origin.
It IS disconcerting that the genuine desire /motivation to attend Notre Dame may not be there on the part of some applicants. I agree and I find the "recruiting" of such applicants troubling. However, I belieive that the scholarship and level of academic excellence at Notre Dame should never be compromised.
I think for those who have set their hopes on Notre Dame, have worked hard, and do reasonably well, it is a shame to be denied.</p>
<p>Try polling to find out how many kids have turned down ops at many of these elite schools to come to ND at the cost of full tuition. I think you will find that there are those who are at ND because of the academics plus the sense of community--it is a good fit for those individuals. Personally, I see nothing wrong with recruiting the top students just as the school uses its op to recruit the top athletes. It is not a very good idea or wise planning in fact, to pin hopes on one school (Notre Dame). One needs to be realistic in setting goals when applying to schools, whether it be stats, finances, etc. Admissions do tend to work themselves out (whether it is ND or another school) and most students end up where they can perform realistically and are happy. If not, transfers are always an option. No, it is not fair for students to use ND as a safety school, but I find it hard to believe that many are doing it and that ND admissions might see past it. Life is not fair--college admissions is just one brutal way of exposing it.</p>
<p>Notre Dame AL says: No, it is not fair for students to use ND as a safety school, but I find it hard to believe that many are doing it and that ND admissions might see past it. Life is not fair--college admissions is just one brutal way of exposing it."</p>
<p>I agree with you. From personal experience, I know many classmates who have applied to Ivy's, and some of them may get in. No one that I know of applied to Notre Dame, maybe because it simply does not appeal to them -- and they don't "know or understand" Notre Dame. </p>
<p>Maybe I believe only what I want to believe, but for me, hopefully with some help from the honors programs, Notre Dame would challenge me as much as any Ivy school.</p>
<p>My roommate turned down Yale.</p>
<p>The Notre Dame applicant pool is very self-selecting. I am not surprised that many Ivy applicants do not also apply to ND. It's not the academics that are different; it's the other ND attributes.</p>
<p>I probably don't have the Lou Holtz quote exactly correct, but it was along the lines of "If you understand Notre Dame, no explanation is necessary. If you don't, no explanation will do." I thoroughly believe in that statement.</p>
<p>sabrina-I think you are wise to question all aspects of a school before choosing. It may appear to some that you are very much questioning the caliber of ND academics (in relation to those at an Ivy school). After thoroughly researching that aspect over the last 2 years, I'm not convinced there's that much difference or that ND's academic quality is that much lower. </p>
<p>I am, however, completely convinced that ND wants "excellence in all things", with the additional main emphasis on family, community, and faith, as well as academics.</p>
<p>There are more than a few other current ND students who have turned down Top 20 schools for ND, including Ivies.</p>
<p>srystress, not at all do I question the quality of academics at Notre Dame. I have been there, have spoken with others who attend and know the facts, at least I think I do! I believe there is a perception out there, however, that Notre Dame could be considered a "safe school." Maybe that's what bothers me.
By the way, I, too, know others who have turned down both Cornell and Harvard for Notre Dame. Maybe that's exactly why certain students are afforded the opportunity to attend a spring weekend. Once you see it, once you experience it, you have been touched.
AND -- I love your Lou Holtz quote!</p>
<p>I agree, for most applicants ND is their #1 choice. It is very difficult to get in, especially RD, where the acceptance rate is as low as most of the Ivies.</p>
<p>It's the best Catholic school in the country and has a very special environment. Plus for such a good school they're really good at sports.</p>
<p>And Ivy back-up kids aren't taking away places from students who would genuinely go to ND. If those kids didn't apply, ND would accept fewer students because the yield would be higher.</p>
<p>For me, it's going to come down to which school (ND or Georgetown) offers me the better financial package. From things I've read, it will probably be ND (bigger endowment, better loans, etc.).</p>
<p>That is, unless I get into Duke (probably not), who would let me go there for no cost to my family.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Notre Dame AL says: No, it is not fair for students to use ND as a safety school, but I find it hard to believe that many are doing it and that ND admissions might see past it.
[/quote]
I'm not sure I follow the logic of this thought. Is this unique to ND? Applicants should not use it as a safety school? How about those of you who applied to ND as your #1 choice ... did you you apply to other schools? How is that different than students who do not have ND #1 but apply to ND?</p>
<p>Hey, last year, the two valedictorians from a local school were both rejected from Notre Dame. At the same time, three kids from my school and a couple from that school were also accepted. I don't know much about the extracurricular activities of those two valedictorians, but I would expect that they were decent. I think that sort of speaks to what notre dame AL said about admissions being able to see when they're being used as a safety, or so the kids thought.</p>
<p>In our experience, the teacher recommendation form was more detailed than other schools, and asked the recommender to delve into character issues in a very specific way. </p>
<p>I think they can "tell" based on essays and the recommendations who will fit. I'm sure they have more than enough applicants who are qualified on paper to do the work--the tiebreaker has to be the qualitative description of a student's character. </p>
<p>ND wasn't my D's first choice, or if it was she was VERY quiet about it, and we had never seen the school or even visited the midwest. They saw something in her and accepted her--after looking at all of her other choices and visiting she decided it was her first choice. It was not immediately obvious to any of us that the school was a good fit, and it did take a bit of time before she discovered why it was such an excellent match for her.</p>