@PurpleTitan Seems like many of the relative “noobs” (among privates schools currently considered elite undergraduate institutions), even privates are pre-dominantly pre-professional factories (and it is hard to quantify this by major choice as many of the selective private schools do not necessarily have droves of students in explicitly pre-professional majors, but do have tons of folks who are chasing the Big 3, medicine, law, and some form of business, with finance being the most popular). Even Penn, an Ivy didn’t have as big of a reputation as it did today, but looks more like the pre-professional factories that are kind of newer to what many consider elite highered. I suspect it doesn’t crack top 50 STEM PhD producers perhaps because there are more pre-nursing and pre-medical students than normal. Also, it appears many of the top STEM PhD producing institutions have STEM curricula that are ultimately less “pre-med friendly”…and you can figure out what this is code for. It would be interesting if these lists could scale for when certain schools entered the Association of American Universities. My alma mater, for example, was not particularly relevant in elite highered at all until about the 90s (late?) when it officially joined the AAU in 1995 (CMU even joined first). Some places do well (with their undergrads. that is) considering how late they are in the game. Rice is also quite late in terms of joining it but has managed to build upon their success really well and even become very highly ranked at the world stage in some fields.