<p>Kid just finished the first swing through camps this week. He attended three Ivy and one Patriot camp over the last ten days or thereabouts. Two schools appeared very positive in their interaction with him at and after the camp and in e mail contact since. A third was positive but not aggressively so, and the last was eh, thanks for coming, send us some film in the fall. The two schools who were positive have both asked for his academic information for an early July pre read. We have been told that the pre read is a formality (AI 230) but that it is a required part of the process. For those of you who have been through it, can you tell me where things go from here? I have a general understanding that the Ivy process slows down in July as their camps wind down. Is this correct? If so, when do things begin to ramp up again? Any help and insight is, as always, appreciated.</p>
<p>Ohiodad51 - Congrats on the interest. I’m not a football dad, but I do have some ideas to consider for a student with a 230 AI. Having been through four years of Ivy sports, I know the coaches look at recruits through 3 lens. The “stud athlete”, the “competitor” or the guy that has “no shot at playing” but qualifies academically. If your son is one of the first two categories with a 230 AI then absolutely go for it. If he is the last category, I’d advise you to look at other schools closely, and there is no shame in that. I’ve seen it up close and personal. Roughly half of my son’s roster never saw the field for many years, and they would have been better served getting a comparable education somewhere else and playing in the games at a lower athletic tier. Just make sure you know what you are getting into. JMO.</p>
<p>I’ll defer to others on football, but my understanding is July is a busy month for Ivy football as they really want to get their rosters nailed down before mid-August workouts start. We were late comers to the formal Ivy pre-read process but it happened very quickly. We were focused on other D1 opportunities when the ivys showed interest . They actually had his acacademic info ahead of time before we got to their select camp (on campus) where he played and they offered during that weekend. When all was said and done it took 7-8 business days at the most. They re-iterated their offer over the phone and my son “formally” accepted. It all happened extremely quickly for us. Good luck!</p>
<p>Thanks for the insight. One of the maddening things about this process is the disparate information. A couple coaches have said not to expect much in July because their only down time is between the end of the camp season and their prep work for their preseason camps in mid August. If they are really trying to set the bulk of their rosters before September, then he clearly is not high on any school’s list. That would also seem to be contrary to what three different head coaches have said about what a real offer is and when they will be made. </p>
<p>As far as your three categories, I agree wholeheartedly. I think, in fact, that the difference in how schools have communicated with him after the camps reflects this. At one school, his skill set and playing style is a perfect match for what they are trying to do, and in fact the coach told him that after the camp. The head coach at that school has e mailed him two or three times in the last couple days. At the other end of the spectrum, he is way undersized for one school, and likely would need to add 30+ pounds to match up with the guys on the roster. That school said thanks for coming, send us some film when you get around to it. </p>
<p>Personally, I thought the camps were very clarifying in which guys the coaches were interested in by how they conducted drills and who they pulled aside. In fact, my impression was the casting the wide net phase of recruiting ended with them getting guys to camp. Once there, it appeared to be about identifying guys who could play.</p>
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<p>Although our sons play different sports it was a very similar experience. Kids were from all over the country at this select camp. Truthfully, we agonized over an 8 hour drive to get there which now seems inconsequential as people had flown cross country. I can’t tell you how many times we made that same 8hr trip over the course of 4 years. I should have bought a Prius. </p>
<p>As our recruiting journey (D1, Ivy, Patriot, NESCAC) was winding down my son was actually much more interested in the academic offerings than the athletics. Ultimately, he selected the school that offered the best academic program for him and was going to allow him to continue to play the sport he loves. He had a great selection of choices, but the athletics was secondary. My son had seen a number of his friends play college sports, and I think the coaching changes bothered him. As it turns out, all the schools that were very serious or offered him had coaching changes by his junior year at college.</p>
<p>Back to your question…I think it is very fair to ask about timeline, process, and recruiting depth chart the next time a coach calls or emails. Bottom line is you don’t want to waste your time or his time. You could be spending your time and money where it needs to be spent, and where the best possible fit is. There is another poster on here who I got to know pretty well last Fall during their college football recruiting odessey. I’m hoping she chimes in about Ivy football timeline as she has experience there. Her son decided on a another path which was a fantastic choice for them.</p>
<p>Oh, he has asked how the process works and has been given fairly detailed information. That is where I got the information about things slowing down in July. I simply believe in trust, but verify. Realizing that nothing is certain (a point stressed repeatedly by each head coach we have seen), I am fairly confident he will be asked to pick between at least two schools before November 1. One school has spoken in terms designed for the seventeen year old ear as an offer right after the camp. Dad the old lawyer is more willing to trust the head coach’s direct statement that no offers can get made at least until pre reads are done rather than a nudge nudge wink wink conversation between an offensive coordinator and a kid in the cafeteria.</p>
<p>Just to vent a little bit, the way these guys talk to the kids is like a car salesman the first time you go buy a car. Over the last week I have heard, whether spoken to my kid or others, “the coaching staff still has to meet as a group, but trust me we are all committed to you”; “I can’t officially offer you right now, but we really like you and want you to come in in the early decision round” and “it’s against the rules to give out offers yet, but you are a perfect fit for our system and I love everything about you”. That was three different coaches at different camps. At each of those camps (all Ivys) the head coach spoke directly to the entire group of kids and said they can not give offers at this stage, and that nothing is certain until the head coach offers to support you for a likely letter. Heck, two of the schools send e mails at least once a week saying that will not give early offers and to disregard those some kids may be receiving from other schools. All that said, in each of the three cases cited above, each kid is convinced what he has is an offer from that school. Now, it may work out that at the end of the day each guy ends up at that school, and then they can say they got an offer from an Ivy in June, but I certainly couldn’t take any of those statements to court and prove a dang thing.</p>
<p>Anyway, I appreciate your experience, and agree on your points about academics. I went through a coaching change in college and it is not fun at all. On our side of things, the kid has been academics first since the jump. In fact, he almost quit football last year to take an internship at a local research hospital. I have been trying to get him to look at other schools, but except for some early interest in Duke and Northwestern he has been focused exclusively on the Ivys because he feels it is the best blend of pretty good football and academics. And don’t talk to me about drives. One of his favorites so far is Dartmouth :)</p>
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<p>Once July 1 hits coaches will be calling recruits…it is a fact. I’m more like you, I believe more in a coaches actions not words. I’m fluent in coach speak and heard it all before. I think it may be somewhat more challenging in football recruiting. There are a lot of travel sports with travel coaches that these college coaches rely on for information and a pipeline of talent. A college coach may not “stretch” the truth with a travel coach in his network but he may say a few “white lies” to a recruit or the parent of a recruit. We were fortunate to have a travel coach that understood my son’s goals and tried to help as best he could with college coaches as an advocate and proxy for communication. He opened many doors, but unfortunately they were doors that were not the right fit. So, as the parent of a football player it may a little tougher to understand what these coaches are saying. Frankly, I’m not buying the “July is our slow month story” when I know for a fact all the other sports are very busy on the phones when July 1 hits. Football may be different in that they want to see another high school Fall season before pulling the trigger on some recruits. But, I’m willing to bet they are pushing hard for their studs come July 1.</p>
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You got it. Everything is rainbows and unicorns, until it is not. Not everybody gets into their first choice school and not every school gets their first choice recruit. That is the way this works, and there are many disappointed recruits every year into these high academic & ultra competitive schools. Always have plan B and C locked and loaded. Risk management 101.</p>
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Sounds like a driven young man who knows what he wants. As the father of a former Ivy athlete, the Ivy League is the best blend of athletics and academics IMHO. The Ivy League and NESCAC conferences do things they way it should be done…JMO. My son was willing to forego his sport if college engineering proved to be too difficult. He started his new career two weeks ago working for an international energy company, and loves it. Good luck, and let me know if I can help.</p>
<p>I appreciate the conversation, and congratulations to your son! My son also, at least at this stage, is pretty clear that football is second to academics. I hope it stays that way if he is fortunate enough to get one of the 240 slots in the Ivy League. If it doesn’t work out, he will likely have options in the NESCAC if he chooses; two NESCAC schools have already told him that if he decides against the Ivy League, they want him. Not that such talk is any more reliable because it comes from a D3 coach. </p>
<p>Not to pick any nits, and I appreciate that you have been down this road before, but if there are other football parents or recruits reading this, I want to clarify that NCAA rules prohibit phone calls for football recruits until September 1, at which time a coach may place one call a week until the 30th of November, when unlimited calls may be placed in a contact period. </p>
<p>I don’t believe there are any NCAA restrictions on when DIII football coaches (which includes NESCAC coaches) can call recruits.</p>
<p>The NCAA restrictions apply to DI coaches, which includes the Ivies (DI-AA)</p>
<p>Correct, and thanks for the clarification. D3 schools can call at any time as far as I understand the rules. I know you and your son went through this process recently. Is it you understanding that July is kind of a dead time for Ivy football?</p>
<p>I know that some football studs have been offerred by ivies already. Also heard the ivy baseball offers are moving along too … for what that’s worth.</p>
<p>My son is a 16 year-old, rising junior from a small HS. He filled out a few recruiting forms and provided his HUDL highlights from his sophomore year. He went to one “skill” camp at a NESCAC college and attended one Ivy camp in June largely so he could to get acquainted with the recruiting process a year early. Much to our surprise, he received a fair amount of interest from a number of NESCAC colleges that ranged from emails to one coach pulling me (his Dad) aside to provide admission tips. We are new to this process and do not understand how to translate the coach “code.” For example, one head coach pulled my son aside told him that “he was big, strong and athletic and would be getting a lot of interest from colleges, including his.” Would someone, who understands this process, be so kind to explain what this means and doesn’t mean? </p>
<p>zenator,</p>
<p>Apparently these coaches liked what they saw. There is initial interest, however there are many more steps before an Ivy or NESCAC school will take your son as a recruited athlete. First, he has to have the grades and SAT/ACT scores to be considered. I hope they discussed that aspect of the NESCAC process to you. While it is true that your son is “big, strong and athletic” and he would get a lot of interest it may be with other (non-NESCAC schools). </p>
<p>These highly selective academic schools have to recruit many to get a few. They will lose some recruits due to grades, SAT/ACT scores, financial considerations and other selective schools. Unfortunately, it is a numbers game that you’ll have to learn to play. Your son got the initial exposure and interest. That is a good thing. As the grades and SAT scores come in junior year you may see more serious interest if your son meets their metrics.</p>
<p>So, your son is off to a good start but there is a long recruiting road ahead of you. Good luck.</p>
<p>Fenway:</p>
<p>Thank you for your thoughtful response, and your very good advice. Candor compels me to add that my son is not that “big, strong or athletic” especially when compared to many of the D1 prospects at the IVY camp. Thus, we were surprised at the expressions of interest. You have convinced me that the NESCAC schools probably need to cast an especially wide net due to their high admission requirements. Thanks again. </p>
<p>Hi, Ohio dad. Welcome to July! Once you have done the big combine camps, this is when it starts. My experience is only with Ivy and Nescac football, but I’ll try to fill you in on our experience. </p>
<p>We attended one nescac, 4 Ivy and one combine camp (Elite) prior to the 2nd week of July. In retrospect we didn’t need to attend as many Ivies as we did, because nearly all the same coaches were at the same camps, but one thing that did happen was that certain coaches were absolutely positive they either wanted our son or wanted to see him at their home clinic later in July or in early August. These clinics came via very specific invitations letting our son know he was part of a small group they were looking at. He then did 2 more nescac clinics in late July.</p>
<p>At the same time, we were being told that there was pretty much “not a chance” for an Ivy. Son was a lineman and didn’t have the height. No matter if you have a 230 AI, if you are a lineman not over 6’2" at an absolute rock bottom minimum (and if you are 6’2" you’d better be an all-state selection in your division), you are not going to play for an Ivy as a lineman. It’s just size.</p>
<p>July is, however, a very busy month for recruiting - don’t let them tell you it’s slow. They are actively going after their top recruits right now, which are the kids who absolutely qualify for good D1 ball but also have the academics. If you are being told that “not much happens in July,” it means you are not in this group they are trying to lock down. By September 1st, the Ivies are pretty much down to 100-120 players they are chasing hard, with the eventual goal of getting a well-balanced group of 30 past admissions by April 1.</p>
<p>Last year, our son, who was going to be a senior, was receiving heavy communication from 3 schools over July and particularly in August. By the 3d week in August he was already interviewing on campus where he was met by a football coach in the admissions office, and he had all his overnights scheduled either the first week of September or last week of August.</p>
<p>The main language you want to start to look for very soon is “we’d like to get your son on campus” - schools that have your son as a top pick want to get them on campus for an overnight in the fall for a home game and the higher up you are, the harder they will press to schedule it for September-October. By first week of November, applications have to be in for Early consideration and nescacs in particular want the majority of their players in the early program. (Ivies are much more flexible in this regard. Their recruiting roster is larger; class size is larger; they know they can compete up until the last minute for D1 candidates; and in several Ivies Early Action doesn’t lock you in, anyway.)</p>
<p>If a school hedges in any way on inquiring about an “overnight” campus visit - your son isn’t high on the athletic list. No other easy way to put it. The same schools that were insisting on my son getting up for an overnight were telling some of his other teammates that they “definitely wanted them to visit” but that “they would have a lot more time after the season in December.” Now, one of those kids actually ended up going to one of the schools that told them this - but they went ED2, after being rejected by another nescac ED1.</p>
<p>If you have any other specific questions I’ll try to be as helpful as possible.</p>
<p>Thanks for the insight ChicagoMama. The current situation is that my son is doing the Penn camp Sunday and that will wrap the camp season for him. Two Ivys have spoken to him so far about coming out in the fall, before the November 1st deadline. The coach at one of those schools is the coach that told him nothing much happens in July. Early official visits will unfortunately be difficult for him as he plays Saturday games. Both schools are aware of this. He has very regular e mail contact with four or five Ivys and a number of NESCAC schools, along with a few other high academic schools, Davidson in particular. The two Ivys who have spoken with him so far about visits have told him no official offers can be made until at least after pre reads are done. His favorite NESCAC school has told him that he can come in ED or RD, either way. So as of now, the situation is either that several schools are stringing him along or that the formal process takes a bit more time than in “normal” D1. For what it is worth, I believe the comment “nothing much happens in July” was intended to mean that nothing new will happen in July, I think specifically no formal offers. We will see.</p>
<p>Yes, I think your interpretation of “nothing in July” meaning don’t expect much in terms of offers or movement in any directions is 100% correct. Ivies can’t give Likelies until after Oct. 1 after pre-reads. For the nescacs, they can NEVER make offers, only admissions admits and there are no likelies, but if they want you, they will say just about everything else in their power to convey that there are no hurdles. An important question to ask is if they see any issues academically - they are permitted to go to admissions and come back with specific answers to that inquiry. They can want to see a certain test go up, or “no C’s” on the first semester report card - something like that.</p>
<p>We know of one player who did not heed this advice. He had a D in a 1st semester class. He was told to immediately convert his ED1 application to ED2 so he would have a chance to get that grade up. He sent his application through anyway - he was that confident in his athletic ability, I guess - and was rejected. Not even a chance for a re-review through ED2. That player didn’t end up playing in the nescac conference at all.</p>
<p>Yes, all schools also understand that home game visits are difficult. Our son did those visits on weekends where games were held on Friday nights. There are usually at least 3 of those per season, so it worked out for him. Ivies will take you at any time during the year for this reason, and you are in a good position if they are already talking about overnights.</p>
<p>Just keep listening closely to how the coaches talk to your player. Once pre-reads are in, talk can be a lot more candid in D1 than in D3, which can be a lot of tea-leaf reading.</p>
<p>As for stringing players along, yes, some of that also goes on. Recruits are still up to 3-4 deep for each position they are looking for, and they know some kids will eventually choose other schools. Likewise, once they feel like they have solidly reeled in a candidate for a position, their expressed interest in others for that place may drop back a little, which is your cue to perhaps mentally take a few apples back out of that basket and put some into another one. </p>
<p>Just keep records of everything - we had a book with a page for each school with dates of contact and notes - and patterns start to emerge pretty clearly. One day you might look and realize no one’s heard from a school, or an email was not promptly answered, or it was answered, but only a week later with an apology for being “busy with pre-season” … they’re never “too busy” for the top kids.</p>
<p>Look forward to following you through this process. It was one of the times of our lives last year.</p>
<p>Fenway & ChicagoMama:</p>
<p>Thanks for the good advice so far and your patience. I have a further question about the benefits of being a 2 sport athlete versus focusing on one sport. Your advice? </p>
<p>Not really my field of expertise, however I know for a fact that nescacs love 2 sport athletes. Because their student bodies are much smaller than Ivies yet they largely field the same sports teams (albeit with smaller rosters), 2-sport athletes are always a plus. However, as they say, an athlete who receives a coach’s boost of a team “slot” through admission always “comes out of someone’s pocket.” You have to be a top recruit in at least one of your sports to get that special support, and different sports have different abilities to get through admission. If you play football and tennis, it’s obviously much more helpful to be a star in football. Football has more influence with admissions.</p>
<p>If you are merely able to legitimately play at the college level in your 2 sports, but are not a superstar in at least one, you’d better be prepared to have everything else in line with the regular student body - top scores and grades. And even then, there’s still a lot of competition.</p>
<p>Thanks. My 16 year-old is a good (not great) in Lacrosse, who is a borderline D-1 prospect according to his coach. My son has been evaluated as a solid D-1 prospect in football with the potential to play for a top 30 school if, but only if, he continues on the same development path his junior season. In south Florida, there are many superior HS athletes, who are bigger, faster and stronger.</p>
<p>Thanks again ChicagoMama. Kid had a pretty eventful day today. We are on the East Coast visiting family and stopped in at one of his two favorites(we call them 1A and 1B) today in advance of the Penn camp so his mom could see the campus. Kid met with some of the players and with the head coach. Coach asked him when he would make a decision on schools, and kid told him he wanted to be done by Thanksgiving. Coach told him he was at the top of the list and if he wanted that school, he would have an answer from Admissions on October 1. So I guess the pre reads are done.</p>