<p>I heard many prestigious Ivys like Harvard don't have very good engineering programs like MIT does. If I'm looking to do engineering should I apply to more schools like CalTech, MIT etc and less Ivys? If I apply to Harvard should I apply for Physics or a pure science and maybe learn engineering later?</p>
<p>You’ll do fine coming out of Harvard eng’g. If you want to pursue a career as an engineer, your state flagship would serve you that just fine. And, it would be cheaper too. MIT, Stanford, Berkeley and Caltech would be great, if you can afford them.</p>
<p>Engineering is a very particular field. My son was very competitive for Ivy applications and was a valedictory scholar in a large graduating class. However, he chose to forgo any applications to the Ivys. Of all the Ivy Leagues, I like Princeton most for engineering. Keep in mind that with all schools, teaching methodology is the most important issue and you need to find your best fit. Also, keep in mind that you will be graduating into a field that pays starting salaries that are very standard no matter where you graduate from. Undergrads can expect between $50K-$70K starting salary depending upon your specific major no matter where you go. You can spend anywhere from $50K to $250K on a good reputable college education. If you live at home and go to a CC for two years and then on to a local state school with a great reputation it will cost $50K. If you go to Harvey Mudd or MIT with no financial aid (highly probable) it will set you back a quarter of a million dollars. You will still get paid between $50-$70K depending on your specialty. Of course, some kids fall out of this general bracket. I’ve seen salaries as low as $15 an hour for mediocre grads that could only land an engineering tech job and salaries as high as $85K for a top of class Petroleum, Electrical or Computer Engineer with a personal reputation for innovation and a portfolio of accomplishments behind them. This will depend entirely on you. </p>
<p>Elite Schools: MIT, Cal Tech, Harvey Mudd, Stanford, Berkeley, Princeton, etc.
Tech Schools: Georgia Tech, RPI, WPI, Virginia Tech, Cal Poly SLO, etc.
Great State Schools: Purdue, Michigan, most UC’s, any accredited top state institution, etc.
Great Privates: Rose Hulman, Bucknell, Cooper Union, Olin, etc.</p>
<p>My kid chose Cal Poly SLO as it is one of the top engineering institutions in our home state, has an amazing alumni network and most importantly has a unique “hands on, learn by doing” teaching methodology.</p>
<p>Thanks for the feedback. What kind of jobs could I find with an undergrad general engineering degree? What about EE or Biomed? Is it possible to do an MBA or start a business with undergrad engineering?</p>
<p>Cornell, Columbia and Brown all have excellent engineering programs and facilities. Harvard and Yale are spending money/effort in an effort to raise their profiles in the engineering world.
However, there are tons of excellent non-ivy engineering schools or universities with engineering colleges to choose from. Most state flagships have very good or excellent programs as well.
Here are some resources for learning about engineering -
US Dept. of Labor has very detailed info and employment projections for each job title:
<a href=“BLS Search Results”>BLS Search Results;
<p>These other source of info are easier to view, less data driven:
<a href=“http://www.futuresinengineering.com/what.php?id=2[/url]”>http://www.futuresinengineering.com/what.php?id=2</a>
<a href=“http://www.discoverengineering.org/[/url]”>http://www.discoverengineering.org/</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.dedicatedengineers.org/Resources/Engineering_Disciplines_Handout.pdf[/url]”>http://www.dedicatedengineers.org/Resources/Engineering_Disciplines_Handout.pdf</a> - good overview of eng majors.</p>
<p>There are many engineering schools that have undergrad business programs as well, so you can double major or minor in business. Case Western, RPI, WPI, etc. etc.</p>
<p>Cornell has the best engineering program</p>
<p>MIT is number 1 in the world for engineering. 'nuff said.</p>
<p>Several of the Ivies have good engineering programs. Cornell’s engineering program is best known; Princeton has a pretty good one too. Schools like Harvard and Yale are less well known for engineering, and personally I’m not too impressed by Harvard’s offerings in engineering. Yale’s engineering school doesn’t get much recognition, but I know that program was recently given a TON of money, so that should help. Columbia seems to have a good engineering school too. </p>
<p>As for your question about a general engineering degree, I think it’s designed for those interested in pursuing graduate degrees; without one you’ll have a tough time finding good engineering jobs. An undergrad in EE or Biomed can definitely get you into some great industry jobs (you probably need a graduate degree if you want to get into the research and development side of engineering). I’d warn you that biomedical engineering is a really trendy major right now, so the job market is swamped with biomed engineering students and it might be hard to find a job in that field in a few years. </p>
<p>And yes, it is more than possible to then go get an MBA or start a business after completing an undergrad in engineering-- that’s exactly what my parents both did.</p>
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<p>Brown is not a great place for engineering. Cornell is elite and Columbia is excellent too.</p>
<p>Columbia and Cornell have excellent engineering programs, also consider Hopkins, MIT, CalTech, and Carnegie Mellon. Good luck!</p>
<p>Engineering is one of those fields where a master’s degree is not needed to get a great job. People get an MBA after several years on the job and then they want to move into management. Often employers will pay for grad school if you qualify. This can be an excellent option. Many engineers end up being entrepreneurs and I recommend this to my own son. One exception, if you major in general engineering you will most likely need to get a masters degree. A word of caution – many general engineering programs, even at great schools, are not accredited by the ABET (<a href=“http://www.abet.org/[/url]”>ABET | ABET Accreditation). Make sure that you go to a school that is ABET accredited and that the specific program at that school is accredited too. It is entirely possible for a school to offer several different majors in engineering and not all of them are accredited. My kid started out as a general engineering major and then switched to mechanical engineering as soon as he realized that that was where his interests, club activities, circle of friends, etc. lead him. Also, many schools offer a 4+1 degree. That means that you can graduate in 5 years with both your BS and MS. Look for schools that offer this option.</p>
<p>If I may rank the Ivies based on the strength of their engineering department, I would rank them this way:</p>
<p>Cornell, Princeton
Brown, UPenn
Harvard, Columbia
Dartmouth, Yale</p>
<p>But if I get accepted to all of the Ivies to major in engineering, I’d go for Harvard, definitely. Why? Because it’s Harvard.</p>
<p>Take a look at Northwestern, especially if you are looking for a more hands-on and design-oriented program. It’s ranked very high by NRC and ranked higher than some of the schools already mentioned in this thread.</p>
<p>RML - It doesn’t make sense to choose Harvard just because “it is Harvard” when it comes to engineering. What if you wanted to study civil engineering or Chemical Engineering or aerospace or materials science…? Harvard doesn’t have them! Harvard’s offerings in engineering are much small than Cornell’s for example.
If Harvard does fit what the student is looking for, then fine. But as a blanket statement it makes no sense.
In the *engineering *world, hiring managers are more familiar with Cornell and Columbia’s strengths.</p>
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<p>General engineering may be either just that, or it may be offered at a school with a small engineering department where students specialize into particular types of engineering through elective choices. The latter appears to be the case for Harvard and Dartmouth.</p>
<p>You can look at the <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/internships-careers-employment/1121619-university-graduate-career-surveys.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/internships-careers-employment/1121619-university-graduate-career-surveys.html</a> to see where engineering graduates end up.</p>
<p>MBA schools do not require any particular undergraduate major. Starting a business can be done if you have the proper mindset for that. Note that many civil engineers run their own small civil engineering businesses after getting their PE licenses.</p>
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<p>Well, that depends on whether you actually want to work in engineering afterward, or whether your post-graduation plans involve something where the Harvard prestige matters more (investment banking, some international contexts, etc.). Cornell and Princeton are generally regarded as the strongest of the Ivy League schools for engineering, but many non Ivy League schools are also excellent for engineering.</p>
<p>Apparently, some people thought it was [url=<a href=“http://www.theroot.com/views/16-year-old-famu-freshman-talks-about-choosing-hbcu-over-harvard]news[/url”>http://www.theroot.com/views/16-year-old-famu-freshman-talks-about-choosing-hbcu-over-harvard]news[/url</a>] that an intended engineering major chose a relatively unknown state school over Harvard not that long ago.</p>
<p>That story was interesting. So what about choosing a private school not as renowned for engineering where you can go in with honors and be the big fish in the smaller pond? Not everyone can go to a big name engineering school, so what do you look for at a not so well known engineering school? Say a program ranked in the 20-30s by US News - solid but not famous like the top tier. What do you want to ask/check into on tours? What are the key components of a good engineering program?</p>
<p>CADREAMIN – great question. ABET accreditation would be at the top of my list. Then, ask about internships, coops, and recruiting at the school. Find out what companies hire from the school and ask how much corporate support they get. Ask about the teachers and their philosophy and teaching methodology. Find out if they have a strong alumni association in the engineering community. Bottom line, in engineering what matters most is will you be competent, competitive and connected. After you get that first job and prove yourself, you’re golden.</p>
<p>For example, I have a friend whose son graduated from Long Beach State in engineering. Not bad, but certainly not an elite school. He works side by side with USC, UCLA and grads from other great schools. After he proved himself competent and knowledgeable he gets paid the same as the other grads. In fact, he may even get promoted ahead of them. At some point early in your career, you will be separated by skill as opposed to by reputation of the school you graduated from. Engineers are known for not wasting their time on folks that can’t keep up. At some point, it all becomes about performance and choose the school that will allow you to compete the best.</p>
<p>Osaka Dad - Thanks for a really informative response. What you said made great sense and like you mentioned, I too believe it is what you do after the education. We have high tech business backgrounds (but not engineering) and have done well coming out of “no name U” (a hundred years ago however). My son got into his safety choices that are offering so many bells and whistles that we have to think about it. Based on counselor feedback, he will probably get into some top tier schools as well, but the cash put out maybe so much more while these other schools are offering the world. He would go in top tier of their honors program which appears to give great opportunities and scholarship. Lots to think about, you have given us good direction and some great questions to ask, thank you!</p>
<p>ucbalumnus – Awesome article link for the kid that turned down Harvard and Stanford for the HBCU Florida A&M. This is one great kid that knows what we mean by fit is everything. The most profound statement by the student who turned down the Ivys, 16 year old genius Ralph Jones Jr., fits this thread well:</p>
<p>“I’ve said over and over again that I’m a major in pre-engineering. And while a lot of people get upset that I didn’t attend an Ivy League institution, what they don’t realize is that [at] most Ivy League institutions – while I respect them for their liberal arts programs, their law programs, their prestige, the great contributions they’ve made to society, etc. – their colleges of engineering are really just in name as far as prestige is concerned. For example, Harvard’s [school] of engineering is still fairly new, while the FAMU-FSU College of Engineering is, I’d say, one of the best, if not the best, in the state.”</p>
<p>CADREAMIN – I am very glad that I could help. By the way, judging by your forum name I’ll assume that you live in California. Feel free to ask me any questions about engineering schools in our state. We evaluated every serious program out there and my kid was accepted to the majority of the schools that he applied to. I can give you some insight. Ultimately, we went for best fit like the kid in the article. Our kid chose Cal Poly SLO and it was absolutely the best decision he could have made for many reasons. Interestingly enough, like the kid in the article the decision was made at a pep rally at the open house. It just felt like home immediately.</p>
<p>Not sure what he is talking about if he also turned down Stanford, who have a very good engineering program.</p>