<p>It may seem like a dumb question, but actually I've heard some surprising views as to why someone would chose a non Ivy-league school (non counting Stanford, Caltech, MIT, and top LACs) instead of Ivy-league for undergrad.</p>
<p>What are your thoughts?</p>
<p>There are probably an infinite number of reasons.</p>
<p>.... care to share?</p>
<p>Public schools aren't ridiculously expensive...</p>
<p>Collegebound, I chose a State school (university of Michigan-Ann Arbor) over 4 Ivy League schools (Brown, Columbia, Cornell and Penn). And let me assure you, it had nothing to do with money. As an international student, Michigan was only about 15% cheaper than the Ivies. </p>
<p>As an aside, I also got into the University of Chicago and the University of California at Berkeley, and I would have picked those two over the 4 Ivies as well.</p>
<p>first, wow, alexandre.</p>
<p>second, what's your reasons?</p>
<p>My reason was simple. Michigan, Cal and Chicago are as good as the lower Ivies in terms of academic excellence and reputation and they suited my personality better...Michigan most of all. I fell in love with the campus and with the city of Ann Arbor.</p>
<p>It starts with that for a wise person, "fit" has little to do with prestige and "education" is not akin to a superior grade of motor oil being poured into skulls by superior technicians at the Ivies.</p>
<p>"Michigan, Cal and Chicago are as good as the lower Ivies in terms of academic excellence and reputation and they suited my personality better"</p>
<p>Wow...you've got guts giving up Ivy for Michigan. I commend you!...however, I'd say Berkeley is far above Michigan internationally...probably closer to Ivy material. But michigan is a great school too.</p>
<p>As of right now, I am writing a 10 page essay on the legal construction of race and the dirkheimien/marxian definition of law. The paper is due today at 3:15 PM and I will probably not sleep until then. But you know what the strange thing is......I am ENJOYING this! The lectures are so great and the ideas I have are so exciting to me that I actually WANT to stay up from now until 3 in the afternoon working on this paper. I never felt this way in high school, and I think the thought-provoking ideas of my professors and peers really make me learn a great deal more.</p>
<p>To compare a university education to a technician pouring motor oil down people's skulls is just way off. I actually think it matters where you go to school. Turning down an ivy for a public school may save you money, but the stuff you learn at a well respected private school is priceless. I am definitely glad I chose this place over the college across the bay even though it costs more.</p>
<p>P.S. I know my school isn't ivy but you get the point.</p>
<p>Golubb, I agree that Cal has a better international (and national for that matter) reputation than Michigan. But you are incorrect in other ways. Cal's international reputation is far superior to that of the lower Ivies. 90% of Europeans have heard of Cal, almost none would recognize Dartmouth or Brown. </p>
<p>Internationally, Cal is almost on par with Harvard. Michigan is also better known than some of the lower Ivies at the international level. Internationally (and nationally), Michigan is on par with Cornell, Penn and Columbia.</p>
<p>Rooster, you speak from a lack of experience. I have been educated at an Ivy League (Cornell) and at a State university (Michigan) and the experiences are equal. Michigan's attention to details was just as good as Cornell's. The resources availlable to students were identical. The students and faculty were equally gifted, qualified and driven. The networking potential was almost identical...as were professional and academic opportunities upon graduation. You are only fooling yourself if you think that a private school education is necessarily always better. Obviously, Harvard, Princeton or Stanford will offer better opportunities than Bowling Green or Alabama A&M. But Chicago or Columbia are in no way better than Cal or Michigan.</p>
<p>What reasons are there to say that state-school education is not equal to Ivy education? It's not as selective, but that doesn't mean the quality is less.</p>
<p>collegebound123, I've heard of people getting into an Ivy like Harvard and into a state school (among others). A lot of them chose the state school because more money was offered there.</p>
<p>...comparing an ivy to a typical state school, not the exceptional Mich, Cal, etc. </p>
<p>IMO, if you are the type of person who has performed well enough to get into an ivy, you will do well regardless of where you go. Most public schools offer lots of opportunities but they are harder to access then they would be at an ivy. Also, in some instances it is easier to land those opportunities because there are only a handful of amazing students where at an ivy you're competing with the whole school. Yes, the name of an ivy on your resume will say something but unless you've done something extraordinary with it, it just shows that you could pay the bills. </p>
<p>It's a hard thing to say if one is better then the other... some will thrive at a prestigious ivy but others will not... it's the big fish or little fish type decision. In the end, your personal drive and determination will make the difference.</p>
<p>Anovice, I think your point holds for the very top publics, which would include UCLA, U/North Carolina-CH, and U/Virginia in addition to the two you cite...but the drop off then starts, with the next cluster including U/Texas-Austin and U/Wisconsin.</p>
<p>I'm a big proponent of the unofficial peer component of education and at the very top public schools, you'll find a sufficient density of such peers to provide stimulation and challenge. But I'd say that they and the private schools will both provide a much richer peer environment than even the second-cluster public institutions. Note: the private schools should also include about the top 20 or so LAC's.</p>
<p>Just to argue points on both sides of the question.</p>
<p>Alexandre-I really wished I had known about this board longer. I would have sent in my Michigan application WAY earlier if I had known what I know now. Your posts have been influential to me applying to Michigan and I really hope I do get in.</p>
<p>For an undergraduate degree, the differences between elite private schools and tier one state schools are minimal, if almost nonexistent.</p>
<p>You go postgraduate and then you might see some more noticeable differences.</p>
<p>fabrizio: Some say that to get into a good graduate program you have to go to a known/top quality undergrad? This is especially said about law school... How do you feel about this?</p>
<p>... I'm not agreeing with the above, just saying that many argue that point.</p>
<p>I just wanted to say that University of Michigan has an extremely good reputation in California, Los Angeles, and San Francisco. I have seen lots of U Michigan graduates land very good jobs in California. I think it has to do with the fact that in California, public education is seen to be as good or even better than most private schools if "done right". And because of this belief, we know that schools like UMichigan is up there in a class of elites comparable if not better than some ivies.</p>
<p>California1600, are there any other top public universities besides Michigan that have a pretty good reputation in California or on the West Coast in general?</p>