Ivy League Parents Question

<p>Let me be super clear. If your kid is interested in the top schools in this country, selecting those 8 and only those 8 “because they’re Ivies” is about as dumb as selecting Yale/Duke/Rice/Brown “because they are one-syllable names.” It’s a common thread but it doesn’t have any unifying meaning or significance.</p>

<p>Oh come on. You’re leaving out Reed, Bard, and Bates.</p>

<p>First I just want to relay an incredibly sad anecdote. Someone I know personally had her first 2 kids accepted to Ivys. The third committed suicide because he felt that he wasn’t going to be able to match his siblings and he couldn’t live with that. So make sure you keep reinforcing to your daughter that she will have a happy life even if she doesn’t get into an Ivy league university!</p>

<p>Beyond that, it seems like at our high school the kids who did the best applied ED to a school which wasn’t really a reach. For example, my son applied and was accepted ED to Cornell. Other kids who had better GPAs applied to schools like Brown and Stanford ED, were rejected and then were also rejected RD to Cornell. My husband says that if he got into Cornell, maybe he should have applied ED to Duke but we’re all really happy where he is. </p>

<p>In short, be strategic. Also, really know the schools she’s applying to. Know what they’re looking for. Cornell is all about being a good fit for a school within the university.</p>

<p>I also read somewhere that to get into a tippy-top school you should be at the national level in something and to get into a top school you should be at the state level in something. </p>

<p>It seems like in our neighborhood everyone tries a million things until they find something they’re good at and then really work at it. We have a champion horse girl, golfers, film-makers, etc.</p>

<p>But, if you take the OP and change ivy to selective school that is perfect for her DD, I am sure good advice on how to present a strong application would be appreciated.</p>

<p>I think the message has been conveyed quite a few times here.</p>

<p>Amazon, the suicide story strikes me as inappropriate, to be honest. Surely there is a back story (that we don’t need to know about) that created a situation like that. The implication is somehow that the OP is endangering her daughter’s life?</p>

<p>I think it’s great that a parent can come on here and ask a question, and get experienced, supportive advice. The message is clear, both on how to do one’s best to get in, and how to avoid being fixated on getting in. </p>

<p>We don’t know the daughter or the parent or the school or the community. I wish them luck and hope the daughter ends up somewhere she can be happy, Ivy or not. And I hope whatever positive suggestions have been made are helpful toward that end.</p>

<p>Why specifically is she targeting the ivys? Which ones and for what reason? She needs to be able to answer this question to stand out when she applies and has to answer the “Why XXXX” essay.</p>

<p>I don’t think either mother created the situation. When we have a child who is very set on a goal which is not within their control and is always a reach it just is good to try to emphasize that life will go on even if they don’t achieve it. I know the mom and I don’t think there was another reason for that tragedy. Our whole community started an unsuccessful in my mind attempt to try to tone down the competitiveness after it happened. But I’m sorry if it came across as harsh.</p>

<p>Read “How to be a high school superstar” by Cal Newport.
or
Be a recruited athlete in an unusual or less popular sport
or
Play an unusual instrument (such as bassoon) well
and must also have high GPA and high test scores</p>

<p>If a kid commits suicide over a college rejection, there is more going on than the college rejection. Many kids this age develop mental health issues. Those have nothing to do with parenting. My concern is that introducing a story like that into a discussion like this might be profoundly disturbing, and unnecessarily so, since clearly the college rejection was a trigger not a cause.</p>

<p>It’s also irrelevant, because the OP needs to reflect on why she thinks Ivies are the end goal. She’s under some myth about Ivies and needs to hear the truth - that they are 8 of the top schools in the country, but not a magic 8.</p>

<p>Tufts, Pitt, Clark, Smith, Scripps . . . .</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>This works for some people, but it requires the student to completely give up the dream of attending the extremely selective school. If you have credentials that make it realistic for you to shoot for Stanford and you apply to Cornell ED, you’re giving up all chances of going to Stanford. On the other hand, you’re enhancing your chances of getting into Cornell, rather than having to settle for a college that is less selective and less prestigious than Cornell. Some people can handle this, psychologically. Others can’t. </p>

<p>It’s also intriguing to note in this discussion (which started out Ivy-focused) that Cornell is in the Ivy League and Stanford is not. But Stanford is the more selective university, and except in certain specialty fields in which Cornell excels (such as architecture and hotel administration), Stanford is also the more prestigious one.</p>

<p>The OP stated Ivies, MIT and Stanford as her daughter’s desired schools. The example above is being even more brand focused within the short list which makes me chuckle.</p>

<p>Many high school students shoot for brand recognition. </p>

<p>We live in a society in which brand recognition across all merchandise is valued (cars, clothing, cell phones etc.). This desire for status starts at a very young age. Why would it change when the student is applying to college?</p>

<p>There is no magic formula for getting into the Ivies/MIT/Stanford.</p>

<p>My advice to your D would be to finish at or near the top of her high school class, score above 2100 on the SAT, and earn national or international recognition in the something. That combination will put you into consideration.</p>

<p>That said, most students who do accomplish all of those things won’t get in, and some students who didn’t accomplish all of those things will get in.</p>

<p>One of my 5 Ds attended an Ivy League school. She got a great education but I can honestly say that it was not demonstrably better than that of any of her four sisters who attended other schools. The other thing that strikes me about your original post, IvyMom, is that the schools you’ve listed have some remarkable differences and I can’t imagine a student who would feel that all of them would be a comfortable fit, even if all provided an acceptance.</p>

<p>We live in a society in which brand recognition across all merchandise is valued (cars, clothing, cell phones etc.). This desire for status starts at a very young age. Why would it change when the student is applying to college?</p>

<p>I agree that advertising is very powerful when applied to those who think if it is in print it must be true, or who are so naive that they think a celebrity endorsing a product means they actually use it (& that their usage is evidence of its quality).
But for those who have confidence in their own judgment and understand their needs so that they dont feel pressure to overbuy, branding familiarity isnt as much of a factor.</p>

<p>I suspect OP has gotten the message loud and clear by now, and there’s a lot of wisdom in these posts. I do, however, want to say a word in defense of people who apply to all of the Ivies, as I was planning to do (well, all but one) if I hadn’t gotten into my ED school. </p>

<p>Yes, the Ivies are all different, but if you’re a fairly mainstream type, you might well be able to fit in at any of them. For instance, I’m was a left-leaning humanities kid who could probably have enjoyed the hippy-dippy vibe of Oberlin or Wesleyan, not to mention the more liberal Ivies, but I’m not myself a particularly “out there” person, so the somewhat preppier, more conservative tone of Princeton or Dartmouth wouldn’t have unduly troubled me either. I was a little leery of big cities, but not so much so that I couldn’t have gotten hugely excited about Columbia or Penn. I also really wanted to stay in the Northeast, so while I wouldn’t have automatically chosen any Ivy over any non-Ivy, that geographic restriction did eliminate a lot of the best non-Ivies. Frankly the Ivies themselves, despite having different personalities, are mainstream enough that a lot of different kinds of kids could be happy at any of them, and even less mainstream kids might well be able to find their “tribe.” </p>

<p>Given that, I can see a lot of scenarios in which it would make perfect sense to apply to all of the Ivies, especially since picking a college isn’t just a matter of your preferences, but of where you get in. It isn’t just a matter of saying “Of the elite schools, Penn is the best fit for me, so I’ll go there.” Now, if you don’t get into Penn and choose Brown over Northwestern simply because the former is an Ivy, that’s pretty foolish. But it might be very reasonable to decide that while your top 3 schools were X, Y and Z, having not gotten into them, you’d rather go to Brown than the other schools that admitted you. Hence, applying to a lot of elite schools is a way of hedging your bets.</p>

<p>There ARE students who apply only to all elite schools…and get rejected from ALL those elite schools. Just saying.</p>

<p>There are also kids who get accepted to Ivies, Stanford, and/or MIT and choose to go elsewhere for any number of reasons.</p>

<p>The Ivies and Stanford and MIT are great schools…but they are not the ONLY great schools. And there are some less than top 50 schools that are also great.</p>

<p>My advice for the whole college experience- find a school with year round/ rolling admissions and start knowing you already have a great college to go to. It gave my daughter an extra dose of confidence, My daughter applied and was accepted at St. Andrews. She did end up at Harvard, where she is a Senior in Biology.</p>

<p>Emeraldkitty,</p>

<p>I agree. Unfortunately, the majority of our society is brand aware and so the flock will continue in unison to purchase the brand name.</p>

<p>The tippy top schools provide great aid along with a great education.</p>