Hmm, I’m going to play devil’s advocate for this one.
80K is a lot of money. A lot. And prestige, in this case, doesn’t matter that much. Especially with a school like Pitt or Fordham (as both are well-respected, and the name of the school typically doesn’t really matter much after the first five years of one’s career).
However, you did say he wasn’t fully sure on what he was going to study. And if he does decide to major in biology or biochemistry at one of those ivies, then as long as he networks with alumni, he would probably have the option to go onto Wall Street (or other high paying careers).
But I don’t think you can really go wrong here, especially in the long run.
S20 loved Fordham. He was accepted to Gabelli. I really liked the Rose Hill campus. He liked LC for obvious reasons. I would be leary of LC. Too many distractions for an 18 year-old in my opinion. Maybe there’s a reason for the stipend specifically for LC? I’d make a stipulation he can go but has to stay at Rose Hill the first year.
If he’s really undecided I definitely wouldn’t go in-debt. For anything medical Pitt is a great choice. I’m guessing Fordham would be good as well. A friends daughter went to UDel and loved it but I don’t think it’s urban. Known as a party school from what I remember.
Full disclosure I’m a Pitt grad and live in Pittsburgh area. I would choose Pitt or Fordham with stipulations.
What sort of academic environment does he want? My kid is a bio major at Penn and it can be pretty brutal. Antagonistic professors and a harsh curve means a kid has to really love bio to stick with it. Plenty of research opportunities though if a kid can survive the gauntlet. Similar opportunities are likely available at Pitt too. From a financial perspective, Pitt is the better choice.
Pitt is a really, really strong school in research so I’d take a strong look at it with that cost difference.
Where I’m from (in PA) many top students start with Pitt as a safety since they are rolling admissions and can offer decent aid. More than one has ended up with them as their first choice once they completed deeper inspections - and this without a cost difference.
We’ve had students turn down top places like Stanford for free rides at places like Wake Forest (using a specific example here, but others are similar). Having recently talked with a relative, there was absolutely no regret and she’s currently living her dream at a top choice residency from the recent match.
Turning down a top school for a low tier school is still free, but doesn’t generally give one the same opportunities or experiences. Students are still successful and can end up in the same job at X company, but the path is often considerably different, and I’ve definitely heard regrets. Turning one down for a great school that just doesn’t have “Ivy-ish” name recognition is totally different.
I’ll second this opinion. My son’s friend turned down Penn last year for a free ride to Pitt and the GAP med school award. Some people thought he was nuts but when you looked deeper it was really a no-brainer, if you know what you want. You really need to look at fit and take a look at the long term implications. Good luck.
Attending Pitt or Fordham on a full ride is a very big deal. Your son will likely be engaged in ways that many others will not. My D had full tuition to Pitt- she turned it down because at the time she did not want an urban campus. To this day it is still one of my favorite schools, and I will forever be impressed by the students we spoke with (they were quite accomplished and several were also in the position of possibly turning down an Ivy).
She had a summer research position at a well known and highly regarded research institution. D was there with about 50 students from all over the country. While some were from schools such as Hopkins etc, more were from “regular” schools such as Rutgers or the U of Kentucky.
Strong students such as your son will be successful regardless of where they go to college.
Your son must be really something! He must be smart, hard-working and pro-active!
Given that it almost doesn’t matter where he goes to school as long as he keeps being himself.
Pitt is a fantastic place for someone with his career goals. He’ll likely be in the top 0.5% of kids
there, and as long as he is proactive seeking out opportunities - he will have his pick.
At Yale and Columbia he’d have thousands of kids of the same level competing with him.
At Pitt - he won’t. And he’ll save the money …
Some of my kids went or will go to Rutgers because it’s in state (and we have 5), one applied to Pitt but the merit was too low for her to consider it, but the university of Kentucky has a 95% acceptance rate, Rutgers 61%, so although not close to Ivy, I don’t think they are in the same category (and Rutgers was definitely a safety for us).
I am not suggesting that Rutgers and Kentucky are in the same category (I never even thought about it tbh). I am just saying that the research program my daughter participated in had kids from schools such as Hopkins, Rutgers, and Kentucky. The program listed the schools that the students attended.
My point was that if you are a strong, driven student, you will thrive.
Was your son accepted into the Honors College at Fordham. I would not do Lincoln Center at Fordham for Bio.
I really don’t see this choice as having anything to do with prestige. Try really do some special things at Yale, for example. This is true for each of these colleges. In some ways, a school like Yale is worth the price tag. I think you need to have admissions set you up with phone conversations with faculty and students at the top 2 or 3 colleges and find out what your son would actually be doing at each of these school, what he’d actually be getting. Free isn’t necessarily a bargain if you’re not getting what you’re interested in. OTOH, it’s certainly not worth paying big bucks if you can get the same thing for a bargain price. The question to answer is whether it really is the same thing.
If you put money and prestige aside, are there arguments for any particular school? I know that’s hard. Factors like size, location, academics, and “vibe.” What is the best “fit.”
Our family has avoided all debt with one exception. I wanted my son to go to the state U for CS but he really wanted an Ivy, and not for prestige so much as a program. And actually the Ivy was the most affordable of his options when we really looked at costs. But that particular school did not have the level of aid of Harvard, so it was a concern.
I met with the financial aid office about how I didn’t want to send him somewhere where he was happy and then have to pull him due to finances. I also worried about paying for grad school but they told me he would have fellowships so to concentrate on undergrad (not true for all career paths).
My son committed to working during school and during summers and he ended up paying probably $30-40k himself. I paid his loan of $10k when he graduated. Now, his field offered some relatively well-paid summer internships and his skills in CS earned him decent pay on campus . So this story is maybe not typical.
For my other kids- no debt no matter what! Some Ivies’ financial aid makes that possible for some but it sounds like you fall in the dreaded middle where it is tough to pay but don’t qualify for enough aid. It sounds like he has some other great choices so unless there is a really compelling reason to choose the Ivy, I would go with another school.
I don’t have a personal experience at Fordham but my friend’s son went there and couldn’t stand with the students from rich families not taking the classes seriously and transferred to another college.
Two years ago, we also had to decide between a free ride at the University of Maryland, College Park or one of HYP at about $36,000 per year; we went with the latter and have had no regrets nor doubts.
I don’t think somebody would have regrets about attending an Ivy League school…unless…
that “somebody” had to pay back $80,000 when entry level pay in their chosen field is on the low side. It can wreak havoc on all kinds of opportunities and decisions following graduation.
IMO this student’s experience at Pitt (full ride) can mirror (or possibly exceed) the experience of a biology major at an Ivy League school. I have seen it happen.
Totally agree with this. It’s one thing to go with the Ivy at $36k over a free alternative if you can pay that amount (which is not much more than some state schools would cost without aid), it’s another to choose the Ivy knowing you have to borrow the money to do it. Starting your post collegiate life with near 6 figures in debt is pretty limiting especially when the alternative is a really excellent free alternative.
$80K in debt isn’t the total cost. What’s the cost at the Ivy. For example, if it’s full pay, it’s likely $320K. How much aid did you get there? If you have to pay $40K for example, then you are saving $160K. $80K is just your “loan” you discussed but as you said you can also pay $20K a year.
So your savings will be far more than $80K.
You should pat yourself on the back for getting into an Ivy. That will last you a lifetime.
Head to Pitt, assuming you are in Honors, and have a wonderful experience. This is beyond a no brainer.
The strain parents put themselves under financially is so beyond necessary - yes, we push for our kids to go to a certain place but it’s not worth it.
I just want to thank everyone for taking the time to respond. I am at work so I will go through all the responses later. We have a tour planned at Pitt this weekend so hopefully he can get excited about it once he sees it.
The Parent contributed part is around 20,000 a year. We can help him 5000.00 a year so 20 total. He got grants from each school. We are waiting to hear from a scholarship that he is likely to get that will knock off the work-study portion but still the parent contributed part will be around 20,000 a year. He would be in Pitt honors and won a chancellors scholarship there.