@Publisher sarcasm? or a statement of fact? 
Definitely not sarcasm, but not fact either. I just put all of the pieces of the puzzle together.
I have been through the Ivy/D3 dance with one of my kids and strictly D3 with another kiddo. In my opinion, how you proceed should depend in part on how secure your daughter’s spot is at the D3 school. For example, one of my kids received a likely letter from a D3 school immediately after the pre-read in July. The only stipulation was that an official application was sent once the Common App opened for that cycle. This permitted a chance to be taken on the first choice school, while not sacrificing the spot at the close 2nd choice school.
Another kiddo, in order to receive coach’s support had to apply ED after the positive pre-read. This was an easy decision as this was the top choice. Had kiddo elected not to apply ED, the coach would have offered the spot to the next recruit on the list and kiddo would have been out of luck.
In addition, I know that some D3 coaches don’t want to feel like a back-up to an Ivy. They would rather have an athlete on the team that isn’t quite as good, but has the school as the top choice and would be really excited to be on the team rather than a slightly better athlete who is not as excited to be on the team because she was hoping to be attending an Ivy or other school.
Good luck to your daughter!
Having gone through the Ivy process with both kids, the letter is at a best a feather. Most Ivy coaches can’t/don’t even offer to write letters. I can’t see these letters being a work around on the limits on athletic recruits that the Ivies have all agreed to. I am guessing you are talking about Harvard because that was the only school that offered this type of soft support for us among HYP, the only EA schools in the Ivies.
The rationale way to approach this is to assume the letter carries 0 weight. Given that, what are the probabilities of your daughter getting in? Do her academics put her higher than the median (what is her AI, is it over 220?) of all students? Does she have any other hooks, URM, legacy, etc… Definitely ask the D3 coach if he/she would be willing to hold a spot for your daughter for ED2 pending EA decisions. If yes, go with the EA because you have nothing to lose other than spending your EA/ED bullet on a low probability school. If not, assume the D3 is 100% in hand ED and goes to normal probability based on your daughter’s qualifications if ED2 or RD. Is the Ivy so far ahead of the D3 in desirability that your daughter would be willing to take on the risk? If your daughter is super qualified academically, it would be a different analysis than if she were marginal.
@tonymom Ivy league schools don’t send likely letters until the student has submitted an application.
Yes I’m aware of that. My point was to ask a student to commit without going through any of the process that would allow for a LL (academic pre-reads etc) seems fishy and I wouldn’t advise my kid chance it.
And I agree a letter of recommendation seems pointless.
@Ohiodad51 I think the coach wants to get the best team they can and if they can get a decent walk-on to “commit” on their own and maybe get in on their own steam well it’s no skin off their nose. More power to them but I think it’s the kid who sacrifices their options in the end. Coaches have a job to do but it’s a big gamble for the student athlete. Ultimately the athlete needs to find a school that’s best fit; not just a team.
And yes going on an OV is not an assurance of getting a LL. The real test is if that student is academically qualified AND is a good fit for the team. OP’s kiddo could get the prized OV, even be academically sound to get in on her own but then not pass with the team for whatever reason. There are so many moving parts…stressful.
Agreed. The challenge in this situation though is either:
• The coach is not making his position clear (i.e. not saying “I have X Likely Letters and right now you are number X+Y. So a LL is not in the cards. But if you are accepted you are welcome to join the team.”)
or
• The kid and/or the parent is not listening to what the coach is saying, or is trying to infer something from the coach’s statements.
Again, without knowing the coach/school, I’m not going to guess which is the case here. Obviously as this site is College Confidential there is no expection that the OP should reveal those details here.
Parent of D3 athlete here, we looked at NESCACs and other LACs. If it were my kid, I’d be trying to get them to identify how much competing in their sport matters as part of their college experience. With a better understanding of your athlete’s goals and priorities, that should help shape the decision.
If the goal is to compete, have the team experience, then the D3, with coach’s support and ED, sounds preferable, though even there, you want clear information from the coach about how many recruits with her stats who applied ED were admitted/rejected within the last 5 years or so, whether she has a guaranteed roster spot for year 1, whether recruits get cut at preseason etc. The Ivy sounds like a non-starter for someone who is driven to continue their sport – it requires the student to commit to that school by applying SCEA and without meaningful admissions support. It sounds like a long shot for admissions.
On the other hand, if a student is not driven to continue to compete in their sport, and is willing to use the “feather on the scale” of a coach letter to try to get into the Ivy, knowing it is a long shot, then consider pursuing the Ivy route. Research SCEA acceptance rates at that school (through the Common Data Set), and realize that many of those accepted will be recruited athletes who received likely letters. A reasonable assumption may be that the SCEA decision would be deferral. Once that decision is received, most available roster spots in the sport have been filled through ED1 at other schools - it’s like a game of musical chairs, and now the music has stopped and there are no more chairs left. A student could ask the D3 coach now if they would consider them at ED2, but I can’t imagine any coach committing to keep a spot open for ED2 – a coach would likely say something like," if we’ve got room, sure I’m happy to support you." But what is likely going to happen is that all spots are filled after ED1 and there isn’t any room. Now student is locked out of their preferred LAC as an athlete.
Only the individual student can weigh their preferences and priorities.
I think this coach is being extremely honest. There is not much a letter of rec can do with admissions, she has to get in on her own, but he’s willing to write the letter. To me that means she’s good enough for the team, just not at the top of his list of recruits so he can’t spend a Likely Letter spot on her. He only has a few OV spots, and reserves those for the 10-15 players he expects to EA. Of course he can’t force her to do so, but it’s an agreement that is she does apply for this school, it will be EA/ED/SCEA. If she doesn’t apply? Nothing he can do.
But listen to the words very carefully and ask for explanations if you don’t understand. @Lindagaf 's stories are just that, stories. A LOT gets lost in the translation. Was the neighbor told she was in with an ACT 27, or was she told that was the minimum and she assumed if she met the minimum she was in? Soemtimes kids hear what they want to hear. Does a pre-read mean you are in (Likely letter) or that you meet all the qualifications but still need to be picked (Haverford method)?
There has to be a little bit of trust on both sides. The coach is trying to fill 8-10 (and he may only have 4 LL spots), the athlete is trying to decide between 4-5 schools and teams. Sometimes the athlete has more choices, sometimes the coach. No one wants to be without a chair when the music stops, so both are narrowing the choices.
The athlete definitely has to consider playing time if that’s important. A lot of athletes just want to get into an Ivy or NESCAC and don’t care if the bench becomes a permanent home. Others want to play, and to do that may have to go to a school/team that isn’t as good.
@gointhruaphase
@tonymom, “that is very interesting. I wonder if it is a numbers thing for the coach relative to the school. E.g., I have 15 OVs, I had better use them. I need to have a certain ratio of OVs to early applications. Good for the coach, perhaps. Maybe not for the student.”
If it’s an ivy the problem is not having enough OVs to offer and getting all the recruits in for a look/see. OVs are used sparingly by highly competitive teams so I’d be surprised if a coach was worried he or she would not use them all up.
My son’s team has about 7 recruiting spots (sometimes coach doesn’t use them all) and about 4 weekends to bring out 4-5 guys on OVs. So not all of these OVs end up as a recruited athlete offered a LL. Some may be able to get in on their own and then walk on. All have had a pre-read and meet standards. That doesn’t mean they will receive a LL. That’s the AO job.
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@Center “D3 coach advises D to apply EA which she can turn to ED”
Not sure if this was a misinterpretation of OP. The schools we contacted and have shown interest advised us to considered turning in an application early so if after the OV things look good on both end, we can turn it into an ED/EA. Otherwise, it does seem like it is very unfair to the student who will assume all the risk and no benefit. At one particular school, the coach told us that once the application is turned into ED then the LL will come but only if all things are worked out on both end.
Hi all! Thanks for all the helpful and honest feedback. I do have a f/up question: Is D’s application to Ivy being pitted against athletes or the general applicant pool. We calculated her AI and it’s above the minimum for athletes but below the 240 for general pool. Since she’s not technically one of recruited athletes, where does she fall? Thanks.
If she’s not being recruited, which sounds to be the case with no LL promise, she’s competing with in the general pool.
240 is the max. The general pool AI average is probably in the 220-225 range.
@PeaceGrass I think that is the case with the D3. Our D was asked by coach to send in application earlier as EA, which will convert to ED if things look good.
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Also, without intending to pry into the OP’s schools – few highly selective D3 schools offer both EA and ED, if that is an accurate understanding of what the D3 coach said. Chicago is one of the few I can think of. For recruiting at a school like Chicago, I’d want to be really clear that I understood the coach and had explored all the possible shades of meaning in statements like “everything looks good,” and understand what the risks are in applying ED1 and how often recruits who clear pre-reads are deferred or denied.
One thing that was a bit confusing for us during our Ivy recruitment process was the coaches “offering of a Likely Letter”. Eventually we realized that the coach does not offer or give a LL. He/she would offer a recruit slot or a commitment of recruitment that will lead to a Likely letter. An Ivy LL is only given by the admissions committee after they received and reviewed and deliberated the completed college application. Athletes who are only given a letter of support are not in the LL path, but will be competing against the general applicant pool.
Exactly @downallunder Ivy recruits agree to ‘commit to the process’ when a coach offers them a spot, generally after a positive pre-read. Once the student applies, their application will be reviewed by admissions and a likely letter issued (or not). Non-athletic recruits can also receive likely letters. Likely letters generally go out in a few waves.
“They cannot invite for an OV without a pre-read.”
Not sure this is true for all Ivies.
With the new NCAA rule changes this year, starting from Sept 1 of the junior year, OVs are allowed. Therefore, it will be highly unlikely a pre-read will be done when majority of the athletes will not have taken most of the standardized tests and their GPA is not solidified. Therefore starting this year, a good number of OVs will be given without a preread.
@Mwfan1921 Although the non-athletic students may receive likely letters, in the Ivys the likely letter meeting held by the adcom in Sept is to decide on the LL for the recruited athletes and not for non slotted recruits. Yes, there are at least 3 to 4 more LL meetings held from Oct to Nov for the athletic LL, therefore more waves of LL are sent out.
“They cannot invite for an OV without a pre-read.”
Not sure this is true for all Ivies.
There is no reason to offer OV without previous pre-read. It benefits no one.
If recruit doesn’t meet the AI an OV is pointless as candidate won’t pass AO. All Ivies follow this.