Ivy Undergrad Ranking by Yale Law

[german_car]

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which is flawed because obviously Yale gives preference to its own undergrad and yes probably to Harvard as well—because we are really wierd and incestous likee that

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<p>This is exactly my point. Even though Princeton is better than Harvard Yale Stanford Columbia, very few Princeton grads can attend MD PhD JD MBA programs at top schools.</p>

<p>The admissions committees at top prive schools, expecially at Harard Yale Stanford COlumbia, have policies of giving very strong bonus points to their own undergrad applicants. Princeton grads need substantially higer qualification. :(</p>

[Pea]

<p>smiling, waving, backing away slowly … I suggest everyone else do the same.</p>

[slipper1234]

<p>German car - Princeton is much smaller than the other schools. If you want accurate placement into top schools (i.e. adjusted for size!), here’s a better way to look at this:</p>

<p><a href=“WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights”>WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights;

[german_car]

<p>The feeder score used following grad schools.

So for medicine, our schools were Columbia; Harvard; Johns Hopkins; the University of California, San Francisco; and Yale, while our MBA programs were Chicago; Dartmouth’s Tuck School; Harvard; MIT’s Sloan School; and Penn’s Wharton School. In law, we looked at Chicago; Columbia; Harvard; Michigan; and Yale.

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<p>None of Stanford grad school is included ? Harvard Extention students are not included but Columbia General Studies students are included in the class size ?</p>

<p>Do you have data for first class grad/professional programs such as Harvard Yale Stanford Columiba only ? No one cares for grad program at Michigan, Dartmouth etc…</p>

[Hunt]

<p>What DOES happen to the poor Princeton grads? My impression is that they do OK.</p>

<p>What, is the OP trying to get Princeton to start a law school?</p>

[Silly_Puddy]

<p>We’ve seen this propaganda campaign before. Two months ago:

@german_car

Princeton is less selective school and consequently only 40 are qualified to apply to YLS.

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Actually, the contrary seems to be true. Seems to me like the reason so many Yalies go to YLS is because law school is the only option smart Yalies have. Put it another way, there’s less market demand for top Yale students compared to that for the top Princeton students. Top firms simply either skip Yale while recruiting or recruit in far smaller numbers.

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<p>I’ve said this before, but since I’ve yet to hear back from the OP, I’ll say it again

The way I see it, you have two things at play:

1. Princeton is much more intellectually diverse than Yale.
2. Very simply, Princetonians often have more lucrative/attractive options (than law school) that Yalies don’t.</p>

<p>Intellectual diversity:

• Princeton is traditionally a good deal more intellectually diverse than Yale. While both schools’ largest departments are the humanities and social sciences, 20% of Princeton is comprised of engineers. At Yale that figure is 2.9%. Princeton similar tends to have more students in mathematics, physics, chemistry, etc than Yale.
• In other words, if you randomly picked a Princetonian and a Yalie at the top of their respective classes, the Princeton whiz-kid is more likely to be the type who wants that gig at Google or D.E. Shaw, HLS be damned.</p>

<p>We simply have lucrative post-grad options at Princeton that our peers at Yale don’t:

• The most lucrative firms recruit much more aggressively at Princeton than at Yale. Top-notch PE firms like Blackstone and Bain Capital, for example, recruit only at Princeton, Harvard, and Wharton. The same is true for the quant trading firms (D.E. Shaw, Jane Street, etc) which simply don’t recruit at Yale. Goldman traditionally (excluding '09) takes approximately 30 from Princeton each year (across divisions, not just IB). They take ~10 from Yale.
• Even if you have, say, two history majors from Princeton and Yale, each near the top of of his class, the top student at Princeton is probably less interested in HLS than the Yalie. Frankly, if you’re a 21 year old near the top of your class at Princeton, and you can pick between (1) a prestigious private equity firm that’ll put ~150K in your wallet the year after you graduate and put you on the path to a top MBA school and (2) further schooling for three years (albeit a great education) that’ll put deeply in debt, there’s at least an okay shot you’ll consider option (1) seriously. And remember: the decision to head the finance route is traditionally done the summer after junior year, which means many of the very best Princetonians never even apply to law school.</p>

<p>Is it a surprise, then, that 210 Yalies applied to HLS, but only 123 Princetonians did? Hardly. Small differences in LSAT / acceptance percentages are also pretty easily explained away when you remember that, due to a diversity of interests and the ever-powerful Wall Street pull, the pool of Princetonians applying to law school is bound to be missing a fraction of Princeton’s most talented to an extent you likely don’t see at Yale.</p>

<p>In any case, this isn’t so much meant to be Princeton boosterism (though, yeah, it sounds like it) as much as frustration upon seeing posters take cheap shots at Princeton. In real life, the picture is much more complex and distorting the facts is unfair to some believing senior in high school.</p>

<p>To prospective applicants, I’d say this: Princeton and Yale? Great schools. Yale’s got some some legendary bankers (Schwarzman comes to mind), and, as PtonGrad2k can tell you, Princeton is a superb place for an aspiring lawyer to get an undergraduate education. Which you pick should depend more on what you want of your education. If you think you know what you want to do after college, you’re probably wrong, and you’ll regret making a decision on just that alone.

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[slipper1234]

<p>German Car Harvard Extension school does not hand out degrees the same way Columbia does with GS. Also once again you continue to ignore class size in your calculations, which is ridiculous.</p>

[Dbate]

<p>Silly Puddy, you have no idea what you are talking about. I doubt you have every been to a Yale recruitment event or have seen the extent to which top recruiters come to our school. Get over yourself.</p>

[PimpDaddy1]

<p>I’m not here to disparage Yale, and having recruited for my former employer, I know we viewed HYP to be equivalent. However, it is indisputable that Yalies seem more interested in law school as a career option (just look at the difference in #s of applicants). I would guess that some of that is self-selection just because Princeton has a far higher percentage of students studying a science/engineering than Yale does. </p>

<p>Princeton does great wrt to law school admissions and anyone who wants to go to law school from Princeton does fine. Look at stats like avg LSAT and admissions data and you’ll see that Princetonians do great. </p>

<p>And for all the idiotic ■■■■■■■■ about Princeton -> law, do keep in mind that 2 current SCOTUS justices are Princeton UGs and the most likely candidate for Steven’s seat graduated from Princeton as well…</p>

[german_car]

<p>…

ok really? Do you think its their fault?? It’s probably princeton’s fault for grade deflation/harsh moods that have decreased princeton’s admit rate. You can not convince me that students at princeton are less intelligent than harvard and yale students. My theory is that if you took harvard students and put them at princeton, they too would probably have difficulty getting a 3.75 or higher (basically a requirement for harvard and yale law) which would result in a loss of self esteem/new found testing anxiety, that would lead to a lower average lsat score. </p>

<p>Obviously, take anyone from the ivy leage and put them in a unknown state school and they would ace everything and go to any graduate school they want, and this isn’t because of the material, but because of the environment. </p>

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the proportion of people going to law school has always been similar the big 3. Now less people from princeton probably applied to yls than from yale and harvard because they were less were qualified to begin with (lower average lsat at pton’s student body).

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[Baelor]

<p>German car, the last statement has already been debunked. I didn’t bother looking at the first one because it was too long and the BS to size of paragraph ratio was astronomical and thus it was not worth my time.</p>

[german_car]

<p>…

as repapa already pointed out in a previous post in this thread, princeton’s lsat is lower than yale’s, and this makes sense too, because the median sat is also lower than yale’s. You cannot blame this fact on grade deflation. This is the whole point of a standardized test–it’s a great equalizer of different grading policies amongst schools. </p>

<p>Your ivy/state school analogy doesn’t make much sense to me because if it’s true, you’ve taken a big incentive for even going to an ivy. Furthermore, state schools have far more grade deflation than the ivies. The hardest part of harvard is getting in.

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<p>…</p>

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he ignores the most basic fact - princeton students score closer to penn students than they do to yale students on the lsat. Also, a higher percentage of yale students go to elite med schools, or for that matter any med school. And princeton students are not better at math. Yales top 25% in math is higher than princetons, as is the midpoint of its 25-75 range. The very top math students dont go to either actually, but rather to h or to mit, even though the math sat scores of the latter two schools are no higher than that of yales. Scoring an 800 on the math sat or sat2 doesnt mean you a brilliant math student.

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[Baelor]

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as repapa already pointed out in a previous post in this thread, princeton’s lsat is lower than yale’s, and this makes sense too, because the median sat is also lower than yale’s. You cannot blame this fact on grade deflation. This is the whole point of a standardized test–it’s a great equalizer of different grading policies amongst schools.

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<p>Prove it. I wholeheartedly reject this statement having already seen that Princeton’s LSAT in the same as Yale’s and the SAT is also identical.</p>

<p>In other words, you need to **** or start posting actual numbers. If 20 Pton students apply to Yale Law and 1,000 Yale students do, you bet your a$$ that I would rather be at Princeton.</p>

<p>So post numbers that come from the schools themselves or ■■■■, because right now it’s just getting tiresome. Albeit amusing, seeing you floundering in your own stupidity.</p>

[Pea]

<p>german_car – Why was all of you text in your last two posts in quotes?</p>

[german_car]

<p>^ Thoese quotes are not my writing. I quoted someone else’s response from other thread (from other web site).</p>

[kwu]

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@Baelor

In other words, you need to **** or start posting actual numbers. If 20 Pton students apply to Yale Law and 1,000 Yale students do, you bet your a$$ that I would rather be at Princeton.</p>

<p>So post numbers that come from the schools themselves or ■■■■, because right now it’s just getting tiresome. Albeit amusing, seeing you floundering in your own stupidity.

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<p>Careful. Your insecurity is showing.</p>

[Pea]

<p>So you’re quoting someone else from another thread. At you quoting them because you agree with them or are you quoting them because you don’t agree with them or are you quoting them because you agree with them and want to use their point to argue with someone on this thread? I really can’t tell.</p>

[Baelor]

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Careful. Your insecurity is showing.

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<p>Given that I have no interest in Law School whatsoever and do not care about the reputation of Princeton beyond the very narrow field in which I am interested, there’s no insecurity. And I also had the choice of Stanford, which german_car lauds as superior. I chose Princeton with the knowledge that there may be tradeoffs. In other words, I live with my choice.</p>

<p>What I have neither the time nor the patience for is unsubstantiated claims in any discussion in any context. If you are looking for a cause of anger, look for logical reasons instead of ones that pander to your own perceptions.</p>

[PtonGrad2000]

<p>The original poster (who has appeared under various screen names) seems to delight in bringing out the worst in all of us. Let’s not take the bait here.</p>

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@Silly Puddy

1. Princeton is much more intellectually diverse than Yale.
2. Very simply, Princetonians often have more lucrative/attractive options (than law school) that Yalies don’t.

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<p>Silly Puddy, I can’t agree with either of these statements. Princeton and Yale (and many other peer schools) have similarly “intellectually diverse” students and roughly the same types of job offers.</p>

[german_car]

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Princeton’s LSAT average is lower than that of Yale and Harvard. Pton is closer to Penn than to Y or H.

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