<p>what's the reason?</p>
<p>"You mean it would be fair to revoke their Constitutional right to say what they wish?"</p>
<p>no way. You can say whatever you want, unless the "clear and present danger" rule applies, BUT you can be held responsible for what you say. If a teacher says to a student "You look hot today"...that is inappropriate and there should be repercussions for that. If a professor says something biased and hateful toward a culture (be it Israel or anything else), they should be held accountable for that. It only hurts the school's image to have professors like that on campus.</p>
<p>or the famed story about the guy in a bar with his friends, wearing a Republican Party shirt. Woman comes over and kicks him in the shin, hard. says "I wish i'd kicked you higher" College starts the next month. Guy finds out that the woman is a professor at his school!</p>
<p>Do you also support the use of violence to suppress other people's opinions? Probably not. Well, using rhetoric and possible failure in a college class to intimidate other opinions is equally wrong. ESPECIALLY in a college setting, which is designed to promote discussion.</p>
<p>They're not being racist as you implied with the anti-semetic remark. They are critical of the Israeli government, which isn't exact a wild and crazy thing. The most racist thing I've seen come out of all of this was the e-mail to Professor Massad from an assistant professor at the medical school: "Go back to Arab land where Jew hating is condoned. Get the hell out of America. You are a disgrace and a pathetic typical Arab liar."</p>
<p>I, for one, will not deny anyone the right to criticize the actions of a government. I believe another quote is in order.</p>
<p>"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive."</p>
<p>That's Tom Jefferson, putting today's politicians and populace to shame with his wholehearted belief in the principles of our Constitution.</p>
<p>I'm not quite sure what you hope to prove by that quote....wooo, Thomas Jefferson wanted resistance to be kept alive...which it has been...but even if it hadn't been.... Jefferson also wanted us to have an agrarian republic-- and I'm pretty sure we don't have one of those.</p>
<p>I think it's sad that there's still a denial of anti-Semitism even today. It's rampant, and it's not by the "fascist conservatives". Most of all I see it in pro-Palestinian liberals....it's very hard to separate oneself from being "anti-Israel" and "anti-semitic". But the Israel/Palestinian issue is long and complicated, and we shan't get into it here.</p>
<p>The fact is that the sentiment against Jews is building on college campuses, especially traditionally leftist ones like Columbia and Berkeley. and by all means we need to do something to prevent the suffocation of pro-Israel sentiment (and, extending that, conservative views) on college campuses.</p>
<p>yes, the link is from the ADL, refrain from cries of "bias!" and just read the incidents. I think they speak volumes.</p>
<hr>
<p>"At root it is about some Jewish students and recent graduates, who could number several dozen, contending that in recent years they felt mocked and marginalized by pro-Palestinian professors. They have not, however, pointed to any grade retribution."</p>
<p>"The dispute has led to abstruse questions being posed, like, 'Can a professor officially intimidate a student who is not his student?'" </p>
<p>"It [the movie] conflates professors' inflammatory written passages with faculty-student friction, muddling what is being contested, and just 6 of the 14 students speak firsthand of incidents."</p>
<p>"The second transpired at a small lecture off campus at which Tomy Schoenfeld, a student who had served in the Israeli Army, says that when he tried to question Prof. Joseph Massad, the professor first asked him, 'How many Palestinians have you killed?'... Professor Massad said through an e-mail message, 'It is inconceivable that I would ever respond to a member of the audience in the manner and context that he describes.'"</p>
<p>"Professor Massad, a Jordanian-born Palestinian, said he, too, has been swamped with hate mail, defiled as a "camel jockey" and "Islamic Fascist." He said nonenrolled hecklers attend his lectures to provoke him."</p>
<p>"Dozens of Mealac students, including Jewish and pro-Israel undergraduates, have come forth to defend the professors."</p>
<hr>
<p>Now, it's entirely possible that the article is biased. I won't pretend to know who's right in the Middle East either (though I do believe that self-government for the Palestinians is a legitmate cause), because it's hard to sift through all of the propaganda on both sides. But do you honestly think that anti-Semetic activity in this country has been worse than anti-Arab or anti-Muslim activity since 9/11?</p>
<p>Being liberal does not equal being anti-Semetic. But the Palestinians have been the underdogs since it was decided that because there were 590,000 Jews and 1,320,000 Arabs in British Palestine, it should be made into a Jewish-controlled country.</p>
<p>Fight anti-Semetic sentiment, not anti-Israel sentiment. That's what the Thomas Jefferson quote was about. I guess resistance to government became outdated thanks to the Industrial Revolution, right along with that agrarian economy.</p>
<p>"I guess resistance to government became outdated thanks to the Industrial Revolution, right along with that agrarian economy."</p>
<p>that's a little melodramatic, don't you think? if resistance to government was truly gone, i wouldn't have to deal with these fist-in-the-air revolutionaries that drive SUV's in my school.</p>
<p>anyway. I don't think that anti-Semitic behavior is any worse or better since 9/11, but the fact is that it's still a big deal. and "anti-Muslim activity"?? please. Name the Muslims that have been threatened because of their ethnicity this past year. I don't know of any. Do you know anyone who's been discriminated against because they're Muslim? I thought not.</p>
<p>At the core of this is my strong belief that intimidation of other students' beliefs, the kind that threatens students' participation in class and even their grades, is wrong. Please disagree with that statement.</p>
<p>I live in pretty rural South Alabama, so I really don't know anyone that's Muslim... or Jewish. I have, however, seen a lot of 'Nuke Mecca' attitudes.</p>
<p>As the article said, none of them claimed that anyone threatened their grades. Did it threaten their participation in class? Possibly. However, college isn't a time to reaffirm your beliefs about the world. It's a time to open you to new ideas and ways of thinking, which in this case didn't sit well with some sensitive Jewish kids.</p>
<p>If they can't deal with opinions opposed to their own, I think maybe college wasn't the right choice for them. And again, there are Jewish students at Columbia in the Mealac program that think this entire thing is a truckload of BS. I don't think you can say that the attitudes were anti-Semetic. They were simply contrary to the ingrained pro-Israel beliefs of a few students.</p>
<p>By the way, I wasn't talking about revolution in the silly, Che-lives sense. I'm talking about having a conscience... a good example of what I'm talking about would be not driving SUVs that get 15 miles per gallon.</p>
<p>"some sensitive Jewish kids"</p>
<p>I think you are dismissing these complaints out of hand. Professors in the departments have admitted something is there, especially against Jews. What if a professor were to say "I believe women should not have had the vote, and here's why" and then proceeded to attack those who disagreed with him? That would be out of line, don't you agree?</p>
<p>For the professors being investigated just for their published views, I think that's going too far. Publish what you want. But don't, by any means, create an environment where kids can't even participate without being screamed at (the "green eye" thing, and "how many Palestininans have you killed?" which, despite Massad's spin, I have every conviction that he did say).</p>
<p>And grades in this case haven't been threatened, but there are plenty of examples where students have been threatened with failures, and that's just disgusting. check out <a href="http://www.studentsforacademicfreedom.org%5B/url%5D">www.studentsforacademicfreedom.org</a> for a veritable catalog of this nonsense.</p>
<p>If he attacked them, yes. I just don't see any signs of any attacking going on, except on the part of Massad in the one off-campus lecture in which he asked that question (definitely overboard for a public figure).</p>
<p>The green eye thing... I still don't even understand all that. What is she mad about?</p>
<p>And I hope you can see that that website is painfully conservative. That's not necessarily a bad thing, it just means that they're only going to be showing one side of the story as well. Also, the three complaints regarding Columbia on the site... it's quite clear they're just as biased as the teachers that they are complaining about. (You might also notice that all three complaints were anonymously posted on the same day... coincidence?)</p>
<p>It would be wrong to fail a kid based on his beliefs, that's agreed. But people are allowed to have opinions and and to speak them, which is what's happening at Columbia.</p>
<p>I really dislike political correctness. For a solid, down-to-earth essay on political correctness today and throughout history, check out <a href="http://paulgraham.com/say.html%5B/url%5D">http://paulgraham.com/say.html</a>.</p>
<p>And with all due respect, I have to reiterate: if someone isn't ready to have their beliefs challenged, then they are not ready for college.</p>
<p>Alright, I have to intervene. It's Anti-Semitic, not Antisemetic. Sorry, I'm being anal, but I'm not a Semete. And to respond to someone who posted on page 1: As of right now, there is no Palestine, only Israel. It certainly is something to work toward, and it was on the table in 2000, but 'til then, it's just Israel.</p>
<p>and I also have to reiterate: there's a difference between actual challenging of beliefs/shared discussion and intimidation of students.</p>
<p>yes, political correctness is a terrible thing. But it's not really on the part of conservatives or pro-Israel people, now is it? really now. Ray Bradbury is one of my idols, and a good part of his book Fahrenheit 451 is about the dangers of minority groups wreaking havoc on literature.</p>
<p>I'm against PC'ness in every form, including telling a college to get rid of the team name "Redskins". But I hardly feel anti-Semitism falls under the terminology of "politically incorrect"... I feel it's more of a hate-based attack.</p>
<p>I'm sorry we're not getting anywhere, but I have to maintain that the most hateful and racist thing to come out of this was directed towards Professor Massad.</p>
<p>And sorry, netshark... (I don't know how to do the blushing face but this is where I would put it if I could.)</p>
<p>Babybird, you're biased, too, just like the article you posted. Keep in mind that there is another side to this discussion. You pay no attention at all to how these professors feel, or anyone else in their position.</p>
<p>everyone is biased, including the NY times article in the beginning that made only a couple of mentions of the complaining students, then focused on the "poor" professors.</p>
<p>birdofprey, yes, that was a racist thing to say. however, it was not a number of professors saying it to a number of students on campus. Professors have a greater responsibility to their students than they do if they were just individual citizens.</p>
<p>as for the admonition that i am not paying enough attention to these professors "feelings", I'm sorry I don't have time to sit around, sip tea, and cry over how their freedom of speech is being breached.</p>
<p>I won't even respond to that. . . . .</p>
<p>that's perfect.</p>
<p>babybird. . .</p>
<p>"and by all means we need to do something to prevent the suffocation of pro-Israel sentiment (and, extending that, conservative views) on college campuses."</p>
<p>Pro-Israel sentiment is definitely not being suffocated and is way way way way more popular in this country. 9/11 was blamed on Arabs who were accused of being America-haters, Arabs were stopped at airports based on appearance. . . .</p>
<p>As for conservative views, they can go ahead and suffocate, but it's not like there's any lack of conservatism in this country</p>
<p>Pro-Israel sentiment has no need to be defended these days against suffocation, don't worry about that.</p>
<p>Freedom of speech... I have to agree with you on that one. It's nothing more than a topic for idle discussion over tea, and unconnected to real world events.</p>
<p>pro Israel sentiment is big in the country, to be sure, but it seems bastions of hate have formed in far left campuses across the country. What frightens me is not that it's opposition to popular views, but the fact that it seems to be driven not by reason, but by hatred. that's never OK. I mean, can you defend the violence done against Jewish students at Berkeley?</p>
<p>"Arabs were stopped at airports based on appearance. . . ."</p>
<p>so? were not all of the hijackers Arab? if 100% of the people responsible for 9/11 were Muslims and Arabs, why not stop them? wouldn't that be more effective than stopping my grandmother to search her shawl and shoes? If you know that by detaining an Arab (or anyone suspicious for that matter) you may possibly be stopping the deaths of hundreds or thousands of people, would you really step in to tell airport personnel that they absolutely cannot?</p>
<p>I find that foolish. race is as much a defining characteristic of a perp as anything else-- next they'll be saying we can't use height or weight as a factor in stopping people because it's discriminatory.</p>