Jeffl- what do you think??

College Majors Engineering Majors
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<p>I've read many of your posts and see that you are a mechanical engineer at umich. i have been accepted (mechanical engineering) for fall 2005 and i really liked the campus visit. I felt comfortable there. I will not be getting any merit money and do not qualify for financial aid. My parents will pay for everything...no debt. </p>

<p>I went to Ohio State last weekend for the maximus competition (full ride + expenses). By being a national merit finalist, they already said i get in state tution and $4500 per year, 4 yrs. (Also engineers are in honors with specific dorms etc) i see that i will be paying $152,000 for mich and about $20,000 max for ohio state. </p>

<p>You seem to be a down-to- earth person based on your posts. please tell me what you think about univ mich engineering now that you are a sophmore there. I noticed on one post that you implied you may have made a mistake in going to UMich...arrogant peers??something like that...please tell me what your opinion is.</p>

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<p>so many posts since this went on</p>

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<p>wow, someone is asking for my advice.
I can't tell you anything more about Ohio State than what the US news rankings said about it. About the money first, <a href="http://www.engin.umich.edu/students/current/scholarships/Current_Students.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.engin.umich.edu/students/current/scholarships/Current_Students.html&lt;/a>
this is a link to the scholarships available to current umich engineering students, i think u can apply to these after your first term. being out of state and i assume u are non-URM since u didn't get offered any scholarship to UM, its hard to get any scholarship from the school when u first enroll here. but there are external scholarships that u can look for. did u apply anywhere else? since u mentioned that u are a national merit finalist, and its only early march, u probably haven't heard from other schools(ie ivys), everybody love national merit finalists, u will probably get in more schools if u applied to more. </p>

<p>About Michigan Engineering, it is a great school with a lot of resources. I was not a great of a student as you were in high school, i wasn't prepared for a lot of the hardcore classes and felt frustrated at times. a lot of the intro class lectures are very unhelpful, professors talk about random crap, outline what the main topics are, go over some conceptual basic stuff and just called it a day most of the times. The exam problems are often much harder than your homework set problems. and they often get really creative with the stuff. as i'm learning to go to all the office hours now, i'm doing a lot better. THere is absolutely NO grade inflation at michigan engineering. 80% of your grade will be decided by your test scores and the rest 20% depend on your homework scores. this is such a large school, that it is easy to feel lost. just know your limit, and don't be too ambitious the first two terms, no matter how great u were in high school, most people have to adjust to college. oh ya, mcihigan is ranked 2nd in the nation in ME by USNEWS, and it is a great department.</p>

<p>The students here are often very bright and talented in music and arts, like more than a third of the michigan marching band are engineers. (the average SAT on the engineering site says 1340 and 3.9, but people are smarter than this number suggests) u will notice if u enroll here that a lot of people don't really want to get to know you. since this is a state school, a lot of people knew each other from high school. People here are mostly the best in math and sciences in their high schools, so they feel they know a lot, i am a very modest person, i feel really uncomfortable around people like that. the TAs will help you out a lot more than your professors. a lot of them are asians, but your asian TAs will be your favorite TAs, because from experience, they are the most knowledgeable and they will explain everything to you over and over again. most of them speak very good english. </p>

<p>Cost: is it worth it? i'm out of state from new york, cost is one of the main reasons i'm regretting about coming to michigan. It ****es me off frankly that I'm paying out of state tuition (which is like 3 times the instate tuition) while everyone is gettting the same education. </p>

<p>if u have to pay everything at UM versus nothing at a respected OSU, i personally recommend OSU. but i'm certain if u applied to more colleges, u will get in more with aid. schools like CWRU and Rice love nationa merit finalists. post more questions i'll be around to answer them.</p>

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<p>i have applied and been accepted at purdue (13,800/yr and choice of dorm), univ cinti (6,000 /yr and invited to compete in cincinnatis scholarship competition which i didn't go to ..don't want a forced co-op) OSU (you know the story) still waiting for carnagie mellon and case. But i really like a university setting and large campus...so i see my choices at this point in time between osu and mich. i'm really not interested in applying to any other colleges.</p>

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<p>At well less than half the cost, Purdue would seem to be a bargain compared to Michigan.</p>

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<p>what is your SAT score OP?</p>

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<p>my sat is 1470, 4.0 gpa unweighted (since freshman) weighted 4.93; taking many IB and AP classes. for example, i've taken 3 yrs physics, 2 yrs chem, 2 yr biology, calculus..</p>

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<p>u'll get a really nice award package from case.</p>

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<p>That's the problem....i'm not really interested in case after visiting...not a big university type atmosphere, not a campus type school. I liked the classes when i sat in on them...but i want more of a large school experience.
If you did not have to think about money...loans...spendign cash etc...if all of that was handled...would you think umich is the best engr school on my list?</p>

<p>tell me what you do on a normal weekday/ weekend. are you in any clubs, activities?</p>

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<p>when i applied, i got into case, vanderbilt, carnegie mellon, umich, rpi and my ny state schools, all of the schools i applied to i got in. but it came down to money, reputation of engineering program. I visited vandy, carnegie, rpi, and umich after i was accepted. the most impressive looking campus, by far was vandy. and then i fell in love with the small tech atmosphere at cmu. umich didn't look all that impressive when i visited. my dad told me that he would rather spend more money to send me to carnegie mellon.since cmu is really cheap with aid, i would probably have to pay a whole lot of money and end up with a lot of debt and my parents would have to watch their spending more. the michigan campus looked ugly, the grass looked dry, construction going on everywhere. and the size of the school at 25k really bothered me.
if i did not have to think about money, i would have gone to carnegie mellon for sure. from experience, smaller schools for engineering is better. u won't have the long lines for office hours, u will get more help with everything. i have a friend at cornell, who tells me that cornell is very similar to umich in this way due to its sheer size.
i'm in UROP (undergrad research opportunities program) since my freshman year. The program only runs for 2 years, but i learned a lot from it, i've already known my research advisor well enough so he can write me a very good recommendation letter for grad school. most of my time during the week is devoted to that and class. there are numerous clubs to join, i only wished that i had more time.</p>

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<p>i'm sorry but i forgot to tell you that i also applied to RPI as i am a medalist from my school..i haven't heard from them yet. I might do a campus visit to cmu. It is hard not to take into account the high standing of um mech engineering program...#2. UM opens many doors to top grad schools and i do plan to go to grad school. Did you join the mentorship program? i think that is all i'm going to do freshman yr if i go um. So if i understand you, you went to univ mich because it was less costly than your #1 school cmu? right? or did I misunderstand your post...what do you like about um engineering- mech engineering. what was your research project on?</p>

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<p>my first year UROP project was in the Space Research Center, it was a lot of busy work and all i did was taking pictures with the x-ray framing camera and basically everything they told me to do. my second year, i joined this lab in the chemical engineering department, working on nanoparticles, here i can do what i want, this is what i want togo to grad school for. one thing to take into consideration when u are looking for projects if u do goto UM, when u look for projects, make sure that the professor didn't just hire you for cheap labor. Right now, the professor that i'm working for, actually talks to me once in a while. the professor i had last year, didn't really care if i liked what i was doing, or understood what is going on, he just wanted someone to run some errands for him and take some data.
umich and cmu were both my first choice, after visiting, i liked cmu a lot more, but the cost really was just too much, i went to michigan instead. also, don't worry too much about the rankings, as long as the school is in the top 50 in the field that u are going into, u are fine.</p>

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<p>also, u have good stats, but don't be dissapointed if u don't get in CMU, a lot of my friends at umich got in cornell, columbia, or princeton but didn't get in CMU, they have a really random admissions system. they look at the college essay a lot.</p>

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<p>Well, only time will tell about cmu..but i still think i would like to have a university campus instead of a tech/arts campus environment..know what i mean?? I was not planning to sign up for urop but thought i would get to know a professor in my field and then pursue research. I'm not interested in doing research for research sake..pad the resume...I want to explore areas i am interested in with a professor that is interested in the research and my input to that research..even if it is a minor part of it.
tell me what you like about um and um engineering. I really appreciate you talking to me.</p>

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<p>i think most engineering students agree that engineering education is about the same everywhere. some schools like UM are more challenging than others.
what i like about UM: competitive, hardworking students, world renowned faculty, great town of Ann Arbor, many opportunities, recruiters come to michigan engineering every 2 weeks almost, in this horrible economy, a UM engineering degree pretty much guarantees u a 50k job, which is saying a lot about the reputation of this school. u might not get the best jobs, but u won't have problem finding one. engineering pride: u will find that engineers here are proud engineers.
what i dON"T like about UM: the atmosphere is not very intellectual, people are very concerned about sports, and parties. they talk about sports and parties everywhere, in physics class, during lecture, walking around. very rarely do you hear people talk about going to see a musical, or goto some art exhibit. large school make it difficult to meet and make close friends. i have a lot of people i hang out with, but not nearly as close as the friends as i had back in high school.</p>

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<p>Jeffl, I usually agree with you in most ways...but I do not agree with many things you say in this thread. In some ways, you are correct. Michigan is indeed large and impersonal...but it is an amazing place in every respect. I guess the grass is always greener on the other side. You paint Michigan in a very dim light. </p>

<p>You are correct when you say that you sometimes have to wait in line to see a professor. That happens in every major research university, including CMU (I have several friends who went to CMU). But in most cases, seeing professors is not that challenging...especially after Sophomore year.</p>

<p>You say that the research you did as a Freshman was a lot of "busy work". But you did not mention that it would be the same whether you are at Michigan or at any other top engineering program. Experience, track record and pre-requist knowledge are important determinents in what professors assign to their undergraduate research assistants. At most universities, there would be very few or absolutely no research opportunties for undergrads...let alone a Freshman.</p>

<p>Like all northern schools, the Michigan campus is muddy in winter. But Michigan's campus is stunning. Not quite as "pretty" as Cornell or Vanderbilt...but just as impressive as either and far more beautiful than most other campuses. </p>

<p>You also indicate that Michigan is not intellectual? I cannot agree with you on this one. Michigan/Ann Arbor are hands down among the most intellectual campus/city I have ever been to...and I have been to several. Obviously, Engineers are not going to discuss World Politics and the Classics with you...not at Michigan and certainly not at CMU. But Michigan and Ann Arbor are both highly intellectual places.</p>

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<p>i was just telling him my experience with the school. i did say that my second year faculty advisor is much better, i was using myself as an example to show OP that not every professor will understand that u are in the lab to gain something, to learn something. this is something u can definitely tell when they setup an interview with you. BUT, COME ON, MICHIGAN CAMPUS STUNNING??!?!? ***?central campus is just plain ugly, north campus u can say pretty, but not stunning. to the OP, i don't know, u have seen the campus, i don't know if u have visited other schools, what do you think?
sorry if i made it seem impossible to see a professor in office hours, they are very helpful and will usually meet up with you if u make an appointment with them. i can't tell you much, because i've only been to office hours with professors for LSA. and LSA intro classes are HUGE, and i had problem seeing the professors there. for engineering, i've been to TA's office hours mostly, because i find them to be friendlier and they explain things from the start.</p>

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<p>Jeffl, like I said, I usually agree with you...and much of what you say is absolutely true. It is how you say it that I am referring to. You make it seem like Michigan is worse than other schools. Most major research universities (inluding Harvard and MIT and CMU) have faculties that are largely inaccessible to Freshmen and Sophomores, huge lecture hall-type introductory classes, TA instructors etc... Had you gone to CMU, I can assure you you would have had to deal with the same issues. </p>

<p>As for campus beauty, it really depends on your definition of beauty. I have visited dozens of universities (inlcuding all the of the current top 40 universities in the USNWR as well as many of the top LACs) and I can tell you that Michigan has a beautiful and impressive campus. Like I said, it is not as pretty at Cornell or Vanderbilt or Stanford, but it is certainly nicer than CMU. </p>

<p>Think about it. The Medical school alone is very impressive. Buildings such as Martha Cook, the Art Museum, the William Clements Library, Horace Rackham Building, the Chemistry Building, Angel Hall, Mason and Haven Halls, Hill Auditorium, the Union, the League, the Law Quad, the Clock Tower, the Arboritum and all of North Campus etc... are all quite nice...as is the diag, and the pathway from the Harlan Hatcher Graduate Library to Rackham is quite beautiful. I admit that in terms of landscaping, Michigan is not that special, but it is still a very nice campus...especially the architecture.</p>

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<p>I understand what you are saying jeffl...and thanks Alexandre for your words of wisdom. I know the decision will be my own and i'm leaning to um. I like the green gathering space of the OSU oval and Stanford's front lawn. When I was at um, we had 5 inches of snow so i didn't see much "green"...but i will return to see the sine waves sculpture in engineering campus. But i've always said i liked the campus and felt like i would like it there. Really- i want the best enginnering education that i can get (and be comfortable and fit -in on campus). It's just really nice to know a college wants you there and gives you an incentive to come..but i haven't lost hope.</p>

<p>what lsa classes did you take. i saw the schedule of a typical mech engineering schedule and there's 4 hrs of humanities & social studies for 4 semesters..what did you take. what classes do you recommend?</p>

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<p>my first term, i took history 408, the professor was young and very energetic, we had maybe 20 people in the class. there was no prereq for this class. i looked forward to class every week. my second term i took psychology111, with schreier(not sure if i spelled correctly).it was probably the easiest class i've ever taken, but i didn't like it all that much. a lot of people like it, but i thought it was really boring and i didn't like the discussion section of the class, i thought it was unnecessary. i took philosophy232 last term, it was called the problems of philosophy, it was pretty difficult for me, as an engineer, i enjoy the concepts of philosophy and reading about it, but not really memorizing stuff. grading was somewhat random it seemed, u can never know what u are gonna get on a paper. i haven't had much experience with lsa hist/humanities classes, so i can't recommend anything. generally speaking, use msa advice's online system to check the ratings and grades of the classes that the professor has taught. i've also used ratemyprofessor.com it is pretty useful as well. i thought all of my professors here are very knowledgeable,people have asked very strange questions and they know everything that was ever asked.
for your first year, i would extremely not recommend organic chemistry in the first term. even if they place you into it.DON'T TAKE IT the first term.i wish someone told me this.</p>