<p>Jesuit College statistics in approximate founding chronological order: G.U. - 88.1/1390/11.1/12.6/6,576; S.L.U. - 61.1/1205/12.1/10.1/7,730; SPRING HILL - 49.2/1085/28.7/20.5/1,216; XAVIER - 70.6/1165/15.1/12.5/3,515; FORDHAM - 71.8/1190/28.2/17.0/7,101; HOLY CROSS - 89.3/1266/9.7/9.3/2,797; ST. JOSEPH'S U. - 68.0/1150/11.6/7.7/4,546; SANTA CLARA - 77.6/1205/15.4/16.1/4,563; LOYOLA (MD) - 78.1/1220/8.2/7.5/3,519; U.S.F. - 50.1/1125/24.8/20.1/5,087; B.C. - 88.3/1335/10.5/13.8/9,694; CANISUS - 51.5/1110/26.5/8.9/3,404; LOYOLA(CHI) - 50.7/1125/26.7/15.8/8,625; ST. PETER'S - 33.7/945/37.5/46.3/1,952; DETROIT MERCY - 30.8/1065/32.9/32.4/2,401; REGIS - 43.0/1085/19.6/14.8/3,732; CREIGHTON - 62.8/1165/16.3/8.1/3,817; MARQUETTE - 62.0/1205/15.1/9.3/7,690; JOHN CARROLL - 64.7/1085/19.1/6.4/3,224; GONZAGA - 54.8/1190/20.1/6.1/4,042; SCRANTON - 70.5/1140/18.2/6.3/3,933; SEATTLE - 44.3/1150/29.5/13.9/3,979; LOYOLA (N.O.) - 58.8/N/A/19.9/N/A/N/A; ROCKHURST - 50.2/1145/16.4/12.7/1,538; LOYOLA MARYMOUNT - 62.9/1170/22.1/27.2/5,495; FAIRFIELD - 79.1/1190/7.2/6.9/3,681; LEMOYNE - 64.5/1100/31.3/8.5/2,475; WHEELING 52.0/1125/33.4/4.5/1,105 (Four Year Graduation Rate/Median SAT/% Pell Grant Recipients/% Under-Represented Minority/Undergraduate Population)</p>
<p>For comparison, non-Jesuit college statistics in approximate founding order: MT. ST. MARY'S (MD) - 64.5/1100/16.2/10.2/1,542; LORAS - 58.7/1045/24.3/2.3/1,539; VILLANOVA - 79.1/1265/9.5/9.2/6,717; U. OF N.D. - 88.4/1385/10.1/13.0, 8,265; ST. MARY'S (IN) - 69.1/1145/15.2/5.9/1,376; ST. VINCENT - 59.6/1070/23.1/3.6/1,506; ST. FRANCIS (PA) - 44.1/1050/34.0/8.6/1,324; U. OF DAYTON - 59.7/1165/13.2/6.5/7,084; MANHATTAN - 59.8/1125/22.0/10.2/2,928; NIAGARA 55.0/1050/29.9/6.0/2,858; S. HALL - 41.1/1115/22.4/20.4/4,979; ST BONAVENTURE - 52.5/1045/23.8/4.9/2,064; LASALLE - 55.7/1073/24.6/19.4/3,670; ST. MARY'S (CA) - 58.7/1090/25.2/26.5/2,773; DUQUESNE 54.0/1125/19.8/5.2/5,432; ST. THOMAS (MN) - 59.1/1125/15.6/5.6/5,289; C.U.A. - 60.0/1145/11.9/11.0/2,886; ST. ANSELM - 70.4/1110/15.2/1.6/1,953; ST. NORBERT - 64.0/1105/18.1/3.6/1,944; DEPAUL - 45.4/1085/28.2/22.5/12,501; U. OF PORTLAND - 57.4/1180/17.1/5.8/2,869; ASSUMPTION - 68.2/1075/11.0/3.5/2,226; ST. MICHAEL'S - 68.3/1135/16.2/2.2/1,965; ST. CATHERINE (MN) - 40.1/1045/35.3/9.9/2,776; ST. MARY'S (MN) - 53.2/1025/20.9/5.7/1,417; ST. SCHOLASTICA - 62.6/1085/33.0/3.5/2,402; ST. JOHN'S U. (MN) - 70.5/1165/15.6/2.3/1,855; ST. BENEDICT (MN) - 71.1/1145/18.0/2.1/2,010; PROVIDENCE - 86.1/1195/8.1/4.1/4,123; GANNON - 49.7/1045/33.1/5.1/2,314; MERCYHURST - 48.7/1075/28.9/4.8/3,532; SIENA -72.5/1120/18.6/6.2/3,149; IONA - 42.4/1125/24.7/18.5/3,203; FRANCISCAN U. (OH) - 59.2/1175/29.5/3.7/1,872; MERRIMACK - 53.9/1075/16.0/3.2/1,982; STONEHILL - 80.1/1205/11.1/6.2/2,317; ST. JOHN FISHER - 52.5/1085/31.9/6.5/2,531; U. OF SAN DIEGO - 61.7/1180/16.2/16.0/4,857; U. OF DALLAS - 60.8/1235/18.6/17.2/1,102; SACRED HEART - 55.8/1065/13.5/9.0/3,531; T. AQUINAS (CA) - 80.6/1296/28.7/7.8/359</p>
<p>Median SAT averages of 1100 and higher for Jesuit and non-Jesuit institutions: 1390 G.U.; 1385 U. of N. D.; 1335 B.C.; 1296 <em>THOMAS AQUINAS (CA); 1266 HOLY CROSS; 1265 VILLANOVA; 1235 *U. of DALLAS; 1220 LOYOLA (MD); 1205 MARQUETTE, S.L.U., SANTA CLARA & STONEHILL; 1195 PROVIDENCE; 1190 FAIRFIELD, FORDHAM & GONZAGA; 1180 U. of PORTLAND & U. of SAN DIEGO; 1175 *FRANCISCAN U. of STEUBENVILLE (OH); 1170 LOYOLA MARYMOUNT; 1165 CREIGHTON, U. of DAYTON, ST. JOHN'S U. (MN) & XAVIER (OH); 1150 ST. JOS. U. & SEATTLE U.; 1145 *CATHOLIC UNIV. of AMERICA (DC), ROCKHURST, C. of ST. BENEDICT & ST. MARY'S (IN); 1140 U. of SCRANTON; 1135 ST. MICHAEL'S; 1125 DUQUESNE, IONA, LOYOLA (CHI), MANHATTAN, ST. THOMAS (MN), U. of SAN FRAN. & WHEELING JESUIT; 1120 SIENA; 1115 SETON HALL; 1110 CANISUS & ST. ANSELM; 1105 ST. NORBERT; 1100 LEMOYNE & *MT. ST. MARY'S (MD). "</em>" Asterisked schools are Newman Guide recommended.</p>
<p>How old are those stats exploring? For example, Fordham has jumped from 15,000 applications to 22, 500 last year in the previous three years. Their stats have jumped as well! My D is 1300-1400 and she knows LOTs of kids at Fordham this year with higher stats than she got....many in the honors program and a few with perfect 2400 SATs. Not that it matters. Reporting of SAT scores is not a perfect science either. There are different methodologies and manners of presenting the information. And my D's boyfriend has a buddy at Manhattan College (Christian Brothers) who is brilliant and could have gone ANYWHERE....but chose there for several reasons, including its strong math/engineering programs.</p>
<p>The Newman Guide is also sort of interesting. Fordham's Studies in American Catholicism is widely acclaimed as the pre-eminent program in that subject., and includes Avery Cardinal Dulles on faculty. Cardinal Dulles is a convert to Catholicism and a rare Jesuit Cardinal. He is the surviving brother of John Foster Dulles and Allen Dulles.</p>
<p>The statistics reflect the most recent data made available to the general public by The Education Trust and is based on or derived from data from the U.S. Dept. of Education's National Center for Education Statistics, Integrated Post-secondary Education Data System. Their median combined SAT is calculated by adding the average of the institution reported 25th & 75th percentile verbal score to the average of the institution reported 25th & 75th percentile math score, and dividing by two. I have no doubt that these numbers are a little dated as they make no mention of writing section scores. The intent was simply to show a rough comparison snapshot of both Jesuit and non-Jesuit institutions using standardized data made available by the Education Trust.</p>
<p>The National Catholic College Admission Association's web site including a handy searchable data base of it's nearly two hundred member Catholic colleges, but oddly, or not, no Georgetown University. Catholic</a> College Search from NCCAA</p>
<p>Yes..but those stats may be two or three years old....and FREQUENTLY are at the federal Dept. of Education. I also have a "cringe factor" when people pick colleges based on very narrow differences in SAT admission scores. If that is their determining factor in picking a school they are in for some very nasty surprises. They should be picking colleges on OTHER factors if you ask me. And that is always a highly subjective matter. There are always people who are more concerned about school rankings and their admission stats. I smirk and shrug at them. If everyone did that then the millions of kids who score below 1400 would all end up at big state schools and the privates would be filled with kids above 1400.....and we could write PhD thesis in the sociological and economic repurcussions of that. Further, it would be contrary to Jesuit ethics and ethos. Of course Jesuit (and other Catholic private colleges: Villanova, Providence, Catholic U, Seton Hall, Dayton, Franciscan, Dallas, Manhattan, San Diego, DePaul, Portland, Notre Dame, Aquinas, St. Bonaventure, Niagra, etc) all want the best students they can attract. But there is also another process going on inside the admissions office and it has to do with educating catholic kids, being diverse and fulfilling the mission of each respective school, both academically, regionally and theologically. </p>
<p>We used scores, stats and rankings in a VERY rough, cursory and preliminary way. But it was NOT the determining factor. It was that epiphany...that "warm and fuzzy" feel when we walked on campus that sold us. And it was only underscored by talking to kids and faculty and hearing Fr. McShane speak. We also recognize that there were likely some kids and parents on that nasty April day last year who made a different decision and didnt get that same epiphany. And that is not a bad thing. Nothing sadder than seeing an unhappy college kid: lonely, isolated, discouraged, irritated, struggling, and not fitting in with classmates. If its not for you, then for goodness sakes, DONT GO THERE. That is as simple as it gets, I tell kids. But by the same token, dont write off schools for superficial reasons like avg. SAT scores. </p>
<p>There are kids with scores well above 1400 at Belmont Abbey. And that is my point. If its what they want to do and they are happy and thriving...then God Bless them and we can all nod our heads in agreement, "job well done....an excellent fit for THAT kid." </p>
<p>Someone may pick Holy Cross over Fordham, or Fordham over BC, or BC over Georgetown. Fine. But let that be an informed decision and not based solely upon reported rankings or avg. SAT scores.</p>
<p>Heck, most of the Jesuit schools have high school/college preparatory feeder schools next door: Seattle Prep, Creighton Prep, Loyola Prep, Fordham Prep, BC Prep, St. Joe's Prep, Georgetown Prep, Xavier Prep etc. Most of their kids go elsewhere to college....often ANOTHER Jesuit college. Some stay home and just move across the street. Its whatever turns them on. </p>
<p>Your stats are very interesting. But its a rapidly changing environment at many schools. Point of interest is that I read that Wake Forest actually had a small decline in applications last year, the year after their Orange Bowl appearance, which surprised some people. Do you have stats on the application trends at ALL the Jesuit Schools in the US? I know Fordham jumped from 15,000, to 18,000, to 22, 500 in the past three years. Fact.</p>
<p>That has to be a record increase in applications!</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>catfishin, I believe that these limited statistics as well as the 2008 U.S. News National university rankings, roughly bear out your earlier assertions: "I would frankly put the Jesuits in groups, or tiers if you will. Typically, they come in the Top 5 or 6 [or 7] ... My general groupings would go something like this: Georgetown, BC, Holy Cross, Fordham, St. Louis U., Marquette, Loyola-Md." The leading Jesuit universities and LAC (G.U., B.C. & H.C.) have clearly been out in front in this top group, but from what you say, Fordham is clearly rising. As they say in real estate "location, location, location" and Fordham stands to capitalize on it's two campus locations in an increasingly safer New York City. Fordham as a result, has been able to draw from an increasingly strong, national applicant pool. As to Rev. McShane's goal to "restore Fordham as the number one Catholic university in the United States", Notre Dame, Georgetown and B.C. will not be standing idle. My question is which, if any, of these leading Jesuit and non-Jesuit universities, will be the first to bring itself more closely in line with the doctrines of the Catholic Church?</p>
<p>Also, a review of these Education Trust statistics shows that Fordham is not only ethnically diverse (17.0% U.R.M.) but also very socio-economically diverse (28.2% Pell recipients) in keeping with it's location in America's largest, most diverse city. In comparison, the other leading Catholic universities: N.D. (13.0% U.R.M./10.1% Pell); G.U. (12.6% U.R.M./11.1% Pell); B.C. (13.8% U.R.M./10.5% Pell); S.L.U. (10.1% U.R.M./12.1% Pell); Marquette (9.3% U.R.M./15.1% Pell); Loyola-MD (7.5% U.R.M./8.2% Pell) and LAC Holy Cross (9.3% U.R.M./9.7% Pell). Again, the reported SAT scores are median and not average scores, and the top-scores have a less buoyant effect on median than they would have on average.</p>
<p>Thanks, exploring. Your comments are erudite and useful. I am not picking at you on this thread...as I dont perceive you to be arrogant or condescending or utilizing statistics in a pejorative manner....even by innuendo.</p>
<p>I am guilty of being a relentless Fordham supporter and horn tooter! Bully for me! </p>
<p>Fordham is a major research university as well. It is widely recognized for its theology department. Whether that comports with your view of what is the most orthodox teaching of Catholic Doctrine or not, I dont know. I am not a fan of Orthodox hardline thinking and the Jesuits at large are not normally as well. They are much more exploratory in their teaching and thinking.</p>
<p>Theology is not static. Church teaching is not static either. Ask poor old St. Christopher who has been defrocked.</p>
<p>I grew up pre, during and post Vatican II. Lots of what the nuns and priests taught me then is no longer doctrine.</p>
<p>I am sure that many schools will fight Fordham all the way if Fordham encroaches on their lofty rankings....lol..and that is fine. A good family feud is often fun.</p>
<p>My point is that Fordham is on the move and is FINALLY getting the due regard it so well deserves. BC got a LOT of its fame and fortune from sports related successes. And that is not bad, it just is what it is.</p>
<p>30 years ago BC was in dire financial straits and couldnt attract the quality students that it attracts today. Good for them that they have improved so much!</p>
<p>Judging from the quality of kids in my D's class at Fordham, and from the kids I met last April at the Orientation of Accepted Students, they were not only diverse they were good kids...bright, ambitious and well behaved. </p>
<p>My D is having a great time and is very happy there. And we are obviously not native New Yorkers.</p>
<p>Fordham is to be commended in this regard. A March 2007 Postsecondary Education Opportunity Newsletter analysis of Pell Grant data for fiscal year 2005 showed "11" Catholic colleges and universities among the "50" private institutions with the lowest percentages of recipients. They dubbed this group "The Gated Communities of Higher Education: The 50 Most Exclusive Private 4-Year Institutions". Catholic schools included in order, from lowest percentage were: Fairfield 7.2%, Providence 8.1%, Loyola-MD 8.2%, Immaculata 9.3%, Villanova 9.5%, Holy Cross 9.7%, Notre Dame 10.1%, Boston College 10.5%, Assumption 11.0%, Stonehill 11.1% and Georgetown 11.1%. Are these numbers and the resulting cultural implications anything to be proud of, especially for Catholic universities? Yes, five of these eleven "Gated Communities" are Jesuit institutions. I believe Fordham as one of Newsweek's 2008 "25 Hottest Schools in America" deserves consideration among the best Catholic universities in the U.S., and it very well may someday soon regain the top position it held for so many years.</p>
<p>For comparison, the "12" private "Gated Communities" with the highest fences and lowest percentage of Pell Grant recipients for FY 2005 per the above March 2007 Postsecondary Education Opportunity Newsletter analysis : Washington & Lee 4.5%, Muhlenberg 6.5%, U. of Richmond 6.9%, FAIRFIELD 7.2%, Kenyon 7.3%, Washington U. 7.4%, Wake Forest 8.0%, PROVIDENCE 8.1%, Davidson 8.2%, LOYOLA-MD 8.2%, Princeton 8.2% and Colby 8.2%.</p>
<p>Commentary from CatholicCulture.org: "In the wake of the resignation of their Superior for the past 24 years, the 35th General Congregation of the Society of Jesus is now gathered in Rome to elect Peter-Hans Kolvenbach's successor. The Prefect of the Congregation for Religious did not let the moment pass without challenging the Society."</p>
<p>"Saying a Mass for the assembled Jesuits, Cardinal Franc Rode criticized the increasing failure of the Jesuits to think with the Church, and stressed the need of the Order to return to the charism of St. Ignatius, which was "To serve the Lord and his Spouse the Church under the Roman Pontiff." For the complete text of the Cardinal's homily, see Vatican Challenge to Jesuit Leaders."</p>
<p>Well are you discussing theological orthodoxy or educational merit and value? They are not necessarily related. Don't forget that not all Jesuits are created equal, pardon the pun. Some are conservative and very orthodox and others are very liberal and "out there." Ditto for some Jesuit schools.</p>
<p>What is your view of the differences say between BC, Holy Cross and Fordham with the Augustinians at Villanova, or the Dominican Friars at Providence or the Holy Cross Fathers at Notre Dame?</p>
<p>And for the record, I did a little background on Cardinal Rode' of Slovenia:</p>
<p>Very interesting indeed.</p>
<p>List of Cardinals .
.
Cardinal Rod</p>
<p>I am definetly applying to University of Scranton. As a person who lives in Worcester, I realize how incredible Holy Cross is, but I don't think I'll be able to get in and its a little close to home. I'll still apply, but I feel like Scranton's better option for me. On thier website, they said that a total of 90-95% of their undergrads who sought admisssion to law school got in and that is what I aspire to do. I think that Scranton seems to have great support support from the surrounding city and its campus looks great as well. I am, however, somewhat concerned about fitting in because I'm from New England. 96% of U of Scranton's students are from NJ, NY, or Penn. but this might help my chances of getting in. Looking forward to seeing Scranton in April. I must admit, though, you can't find a better education or a nicer campus than the one in Holy Cross. Truly anamazing school.</p>
<p>You will be fine. U Scranton is one of several lesser known Jesuit schools that deserves a higher profile. But its a great school. Holy Cross is indeed very very competitive. It wouldnt hurt to drop your application there and see what happens. Ditto for Fordham. But if U Scranton is what turns you on, then go there. The "fit" factor is only pronounced for those who are from a completely different part of the country...and Massachusetts is close enough...plus a number of people from the northeast attend Scranton. Its also a factor for people who get heebie jeebies about anything remotely religious. Jesuit schools are not overbearing or doctrinal, they are in fact very open minded and encourage dialogue on issues. </p>
<p>Best of luck.</p>
<p>Thanks, seafoodlover, I'm pumped to see U Scranton in April. The fact that is Jesuit is very comforting because they undoubtedly are open minded and accepting of people of ther faiths. I come from a fairly devoted Catholic family anyway so thats fine. Scranton has been mentioned as a hidden gem a couple of times on this blog. Now its just seeing the school and the city itself. Thanks again.</p>
<p>The President of Fordham University, Rev. Joseph P. McShane, S.J. is the immediate Past President of U Scranton. Fr. McShane is a dynamo and did a bang up job at Scranton, hence his promotion. I kind of have a feeling this is where you might end up, so make the best of your visit. Then again, you never know, you may end up at Holy Cross or somewhere else! LOL.</p>
<p>Admissions is a very unpredictable process and its very stressful for everyone because its not in our own hands or control, but in the hands and control of others...and Almighty God. But you have picked some wonderful schools all....and that is a credit to you and your parents doing the right homework and research.</p>
<p>I wish you the very, very best.</p>