JHU vs. UMich vs. UChicago

College Search & Selection
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<p>For pre-med, which do you recommend?</p>

<p>Obviously JHU has the best reputation for pre-med amongst the three, but is it really that significant? </p>

<p>See, I want to be in a city--preferably Chicago, and not really Ann Arbor. Furthermore, I'm leaning towards UChicago as I'm interested in the Core and it's strong humanities AND science departments. </p>

<p>However, the social scene AND poor pre-med rep at UChicago is scaring me off. </p>

<p>Also, I get in-state tuition at UMich, so would I be foolish to turn that down? i.e. Is there really a large difference in the quality of the education provided between the schools?</p>

<p>Thanks for your help.</p>

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<p>and looking around, i see that just about everyone comparing schools right now is pre-med. sorry to be so mainstream. :) not jumping on the bandwagon--my heart has been set on medicine for quite some time.</p>

3

<p>Uchicago does have a great medical sch as well. Can you/your family afford to go out of state? How much money will yousave at UMich- you will be spending a lot on medical school afterall. Given your choices, I would mostly likely choose Uchicago (I fell in love with the Life of the Mind), but I wasn't leaning towards pre-med. I also loved JHU/its campus/ what it stands for. Basically, JHU and Uchicago are some of my favorite schools and totally worth the hype they have!!! Good luck with the decision. Try visiting (esp Chicago as it's pretty nearby), one school just might "click."</p>

4

<p>We can afford it, but my parents aren't thrilled. And I just feel a little guilty, you know? :) They've made it clear that they will pay for my undergrad education basically no matter where I decide to go, but that med school is up to me. So, I might as well get all that I can. :D</p>

<p>And, I live in germany, so visiting isn't so easy! Though I have visited UMich and JHU. UMich was far too big for me, and not as diverse as I like. JHU was awesome, but Baltimore wasn't my favorite. And I've been to the city of Chicago, and I love the city. I haven't been to the UChicago campus though.</p>

<p>Sometimes I just worry that JHU won't be as challenging and academic as I'd like. Don't get me wrong, I have a pretty intense social life. In fact I think living in Europe has gotten the freshman year partying attitude out of me, and now I want somewhere that has a good reputation and challenging academic atmosphere. This is, of course, not to say that JHU isn't an AMAZING university. It is. But I just wonder if I'll get the academic experience I want out of it. I just want a good social/academic balance in college.</p>

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<p>I'm sorry, I assumed you lived in Michigan b/c you're getting instate.</p>

<p>UChicago campus is fabulous- it's gothic-y architecture (check out the uncommonapplication blog for some random pics). If you're from Europe perhaps a bigger and more diverse city of chicago is better. I feel that it may be difficult to adjust to such a college town atmosphere of Michigan and Baltimore is nothing compared to Chicago (size, diversity, arts, sports etc).</p>

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<p>Just in case you need the link:
<a href="http://uncommonapplication07-08.blogspot.com/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://uncommonapplication07-08.blogspot.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

7

<p>I completely agree about UChicago--it does really seem like a great school for me. But I do worry that going there will hurt my chances of getting into med school. Let's face it, it's very hard to get a good GPA there. And I really haven't heard many med school success stories (with the exception of idad's son). I'd like to hear some more, see some stats, etc.</p>

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<p>buuuump.</p>

<p>please people, i know you're sick of pre-meds, but i need help!</p>

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<p>I think for an overall experience, it depends on what you are looking for. Evanston is not really a city so that feels like it's out of the picture. UChicago and Hopkins do have some similarities but attract different students in general. </p>

<p>I would try to visit both; however, going to Hopkins and seeking entrance to medical school, it really doesn't get better than that. I believe their medical school placement is 92% or something like that. </p>

<p>I would check out their school-specific board.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>There's some discussion about med school on the UChicago boards (yes, if you come here you won't be the only pre-med! In fact, you'll be far from the only one!) and I think our only real resolution was that there is a pre-med adviser, whom you should talk to and see what kind of data is available.</p>

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<p>thank you everyone. i'll get in touch with uchicago to try and get some information tomorrow.</p>

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<p>i think uchicago has a med program where you apply after your sophmore year as an undergrad. If you get in, you are granted guaranteed admission after you finish undergrad and i think its completely free</p>

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<p>haha. i can't see myself getting into that programme no matter how hard i work in my freshman year. i'm just not that lucky.</p>

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<p>Chriscap, are Johns Hopkins and Chicago providing you with any financial aid or scholarship money? In-state tuition for Michigan is under $10,000/year. Tution at Johns Hopkins and Chicago is close to $35,000. I am not going to go into the whole academic quality debate here and now. But even if you believe that Chicago and Johns Hopkins are better, even if you believe that Michigan is too large or that it isn't diverse enough, are Chicago and Johns Hopkins $100,000 better than Michigan?</p>

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<p>Data mostly drawn from USNWR</p>

<p>OBJECTIVE DATA</p>

<p>Undergraduate Enrollment:
U Chicago: 4671 JHU: 5678 U Michigan: 25,467</p>

<h1>and % of students who are in-state:</h1>

<p>U Chicago: na JHU: na U Michigan: 17,572 (69%)</p>

<p>Cost (Tuition & Fees):
U Chicago: $34,005 JHU: $33,900 U Michigan: $9988 (IS)</p>

<p>Graduation & Retention Rank
U Chicago: 20th JHU: 20th U Michigan: 28th
-% of Students expected to graduate in 6 years:
U Chicago: 91% JHU: 89% U Michigan: 77%
-% of students who do graduate in 6 years:
U Chicago: 91% JHU: 90% U Michigan: 86%</p>

<p>Faculty Resources Rank:
U Chicago: 6th JHU: 40th U Michigan: 69th
-% of classes with 50+ students
U Chicago: 5% JHU: 19% U Michigan: 16%
-% of classes with <20 students
U Chicago: 66% JHU: 51% U Michigan: 43%
-Faculty/student ratio
U Chicago: 7/1 JHU: 10/1 U Michigan: 10/1</p>

<p>Student Selectivity Rank:
U Chicago: 22nd JHU: 22nd U Michigan: 22nd
-Average SAT/ACT:
U Chicago: 1350-1530 JHU: 1290-1500 U Michigan: 1220-1410
-% of students ranking in top 10% of high school class
U Chicago: 79% JHU: 81% U Michigan: 89%
-% acceptance rate
U Chicago: 40% JHU: 35% U Michigan: 57%</p>

<h1>of NMS Finalists and % of students from 2005:</h1>

<p>U Chicago: 196 (17%) JHU: 51 (4%) U Michigan: 75 (1%)</p>

<h1>of 1500 scorers enrolled:</h1>

<p>U Chicago: 1501 (32%) JHU: 1278 (23%) U Michigan: 1645 (6%)</p>

<p>Financial Resources Rank:
U Chicago: 10th JHU: 3rd U Michigan: 31st </p>

<p>Alumni Giving % and Rank:
U Chicago: 33% (20th) JHU: 35% (16th) U Michigan: 15% (105th)</p>

<p>SUBJECTIVE DATA</p>

<p>Peer Assessment:
U Chicago: 4.7 JHU: 4.6 U Michigan: 4.5</p>

<p>This is the classic case of a top in-state student weighing the choice of the less expensive well-regarded state university vs. some of the top, but most expensive, private schools in the USA. I'm sure you have read the thread in "College Admissions" that debates this.</p>

<p>There are lots of contrasts in this comparison, most obviously size, location, and cost. On the factors above, for faculty resources. U Chicago is strongly ahead of JHU and U Michigan behind while, for Financial resources (students), JHU is strongly ahead of U Chicago with U Michigan behind. Statistically, U Chicago gets the slight advantage over JHU on most objective data with U Michigan not too far behind. The Selectivity numbers offer especially interesting comparisons. All are equally ranked by USNWR in terms of selectivity (different factors are weighted differently by USNWR), as the SAT scores of U Chicago and JHU are sharply higher while U Michigan has a clear advantage in the % of students admitted who were top 10% in their high school class. Among academics, all have a strong reputation.</p>

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<p>Does anybody know about this nebulous "Faculty Resources Rank" and how it is calculated? I happen to think the academic experience at Chicago is fantastic and somewhat unique to Chicago, given the Core curriculum and the personality of students here, but I don't know how that gets expressed in qualitative terms by USNWR.</p>

<p>Somebody once said that looking at these data can be like judging a restaurant based on the quality of its silverware. I'm inclined to agree.</p>

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<p>Faculty Resources is made up of six sub-factors which collectively represent 20% of a school's USNWR ranking. For students looking to get an idea of what they can expect to experience while on campus (class size, student/faculty ratio, etc), some of these factors can be quite important. Only some of the detail is disclosed as part of the USNWR report. The only disclosed factor that I have not been including in my posts is for % of full-time faculty. If you think this is worthwhile, I will include it in future posts. </p>

<p>Here are the six sub-factors:
1) % of classes with fewer than 20 students
2) % of classes with more than 50 students
3) Faculty Salary
4) % of profs with highest degree in their fields
5) Student-faculty ratio
6) % of faculty that are full-time</p>

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<p>It should be as easy to get a good gpa at UChicago as at JHU. (Not easy at either place, but possible).</p>

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<p>I completely understand where some people are saying that I should go with Michigan based on cost. The thing that really bothers me is: what if I don't end up going in to medicine? Sure, low chance, but it's there. In that case, I sincerely believe that a degree from Chicago or JHU would place me significantly further ahead in the work force than a degree from Michigan. </p>

<p>It's logical--the more selective, elitist, research-oriented universities place their graduates in better positions in the work field.</p>

<p>So, I still can't decide. I emailed the UChicago Admissions Office today to ask for some stats regarding their undergrad med school placement, so hopefully those will help with the decision. But, the clock is ticking... Each time I feel set on one school, the positives of the other schools really stand out all over again! :)</p>

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<p>UMichigan will not disadvantage you in anyway when it comes to employment or graduate school admissions. If anything, it might provide better opportunities thanks to a huge and loyal alumni base.</p>