<p>I was lucky enough to get into both JHU's and Penn's CAS and am now stuck trying to decide which school to go to. I'm most likely going to try to go to either medical or law school after I graduate and wondered which school would be best. </p>
<p>I know the pre-med program at Hopkins is amazing, but I'm really worried about the large percentage of undergraduates choosing to go this route (as in, will I NOT get into medical school simply because I'm overshadowed by so many other outstanding students with excellent grades/extracurriculars trying to attain the same goal?). Penn seems to have less people that want to go to medical school after they graduate, which would allow me to "shine" (relatively speaking) more than if I went to Hopkins.</p>
<p>I'm also concerned that if I choose not to go down the pre-med path, but rather the pre-law path, that Hopkins won't offer as much opportunity to get into law school that Penn does. </p>
<p>I ask these questions because I'm very torn between the two schools. I unexpectedly liked Hopkins when I visited (the campus fit me well and the people I met seemed friendly/my type). At the same time, I feel that Penn might offer me a slgihtly better chance at attaining my post-graduate goals.</p>
<p>Penn has more than twice the number of undergraduates so while the percentage of premeds may be lower, the number of people you will be competing against for a med school slot will probable be greater at Penn than at Hopkins. </p>
<p>Both are terrific schools which do very well placement-wise, both for medical and law school. There will not be a significant difference in that respect. Hopkins law school placement rate hovers around 95% or better. If you were interested in business, then Penn is clearly superior (its hard to beat Wharton). In most other fields, I think Hopkins has the edge. </p>
<p>In my opinion, the biggest difference in the two schools relates to the opportunities to do research. Hopkins is the number one university in the US (maybe in the world, I don’t know) in terms of funded research, yet it has less than 4500 undergraduates. Penn gets half of the research funding, yet has over 10,000 undergraduates. Where do you think you have better opportunities to do research?</p>
<p>I’m not really into business (or at least right now) so that’s pretty much a non-factor for me (then again, college could pique my interest in this area). </p>
<p>I recognize the fact that Penn does have a larger student body and therefore would have a correspondingly larger number of students in the pre-health arena even with a smaller percentage. However, I still feel that pre-health/med at Penn would be “less”-intense than at Hopkins. I know that Hopkins, as a whole, isn’t filled with a bunch of cutthroat pre-meds, but at the same time, I still hear horror stories of the ridiculously-super-stiff competition amongst this group. Several of my friends have told me how their brothers/sisters/cousins have been basically forced to give up their dreams of becoming doctors because they were doing so poorly in their pre-med required courses (and this is assuming these people are half-way smart - a few of them did go to my high school and did very well). In short, all of my friends have been telling me to avoid Hopkins like the plague if I want to do pre-med.</p>
<p>With regard to the humanities, I’ve been reading that Hopkins is making an active effort to expand and improve their existing undergraduate programs, but that Penn still has a considerable edge. As someone who is looking at possibly majoring/minoring in History/Political Science, this is very important to me. </p>
<p>In terms of research, I’ve heard most of the money Hopkins gets goes toward its graduate schools rather than to its undergrads at Homewood. I’ve also been told its easy to get research opportunities at Penn because of the fact that most of its medical facilities are located on or extremely close to its main undergraduate campus. </p>
<p>I must sound a little bit like a ■■■■■ bashing on Hopkins, but I really just want to dispel my reservations/fears/concerns about going here over a place like Penn. I honestly liked the Homewood campus more than Penn’s campus and I could relate to most of the people I came across.</p>
<p>Penn’s English and Hopkins English are both in the top TEN. Hopkins Comparative literatur is also in the top 10 as well as creative writing which is #1.</p>
<p>If you are interested in History, Hopkins’ History is top 10 in the nation as well ahead of Penn’s history according to NRC rankings and USNews’s history undergraduate rankings.</p>
<p>You can consider History with International relations combo premed. International relations is a very popular major here at JHU. Hopkins’ SAIS is ranked among the top 2 IR graduate schools in the nation. It’s reputation transcends down to the undergraduate level too…</p>
<p>JHU has the top 3 best prehealth advising committee in the nation… So that definitely helps too in addition to top 10 history and top IR program.</p>
<p>Hopkins is the #1 recipient of NASA, DoD, NIH, NSF, federal grant funding. Our professors outcompete the best in the nation and rake in $1.55 billion dollars in research every year and has lead the nation for the past 18 years.</p>
<p>Hopkins professors are very open to allowing undergraduates partake in research. 80% of Hopkins students engage in research, so it’s VERY VERY easy to find research at Hopkins med… 80% is highest in the nation in research participation for undergraduate students. </p>
<p>Hopkins med is #1 recipient of research funding from federal gov… School of Public health is also the #1 recipient of research grants… I’m going to hospital administration… so having the #1 Johns Hopkins Hospital is great thing for me too. </p>
<p>If you are interested in preprofessional schools, 82% of Hopkins students end up getting a graduate degree or a preprofessional degree, the highest percentage out of any school in the nation. 93% of students end up into medical school and 93% get into law school…</p>
<p>I quit premed at Hopkins and I choose Hopkins over Penn for neuroscience. I’m now a public health major pursuing hospital administration. I have a summer internship lined up with a lecturer from my Health Policy and management class so I can work with him at Hopkins hospital…</p>
<p>Premed at Hopkins is intense. There are some ppl who feel very stressed out and think that they are overwhelmed… I was one of them. There isn’t this very stiff ridiculous competition. You are competing against your own peers and against premeds from the best schools in the nation. From my experience, ppl who work hard will get into medical school. Hopkins is the best place for premed… named hottest premed school in 2008… Students come out of here successful and adequately prepared to face the even MORE intense competition in medical school.</p>
<p>Medical school admissions is a fierce competition. I think if you can survive Hopkins and do excellent among your peers, you will get into a very reputable and good medical school. You will have learned the tools of hardwork… you will do very well in life.</p>
<p>A lot of premeds ***** about the work that they have to do. I’m pretty sure this is the same at Harvard etc… because I’ve been talking to premeds over there… they hate the courses they are taking and “A mentality” just as much as any other student in the top 15 of USNews etc…</p>
<p>Don’t be afraid, if you are scared about GPA at Hopkins, feel free to bring up more questions…</p>
<p>I’m not going to knock Penn, because I think its a great school. But I don’t know who told you that Penn has a considerable advantage over Hopkins in the Humanities. For the most part, that’s not true at all. </p>
<p>Hopkins has always been very strong in the humanities. Its just that the humanities departments tend to be small compared with some of the science departments. The new emphasis is simply to accept a greater percentage of undergraduates who express a primary interest in the humanities.</p>
<p>For what its worth, I have a friend who is a full professor at Penn. When it came time for my kids to decide where to go, he told me, frankly, that he considered Hopkins a better school for most fields than Penn. And its not that he doesn’t like Penn—he does.</p>
<p>You’re right: I am very concerned about performing well at Hopkins with regards to my GPA, MCATs, etc. My main fear is that I’m going to be totally overwhelmed with the work and will have to give up my life goal as having career as a health professional as many of my friends’ brothers, sisters, and cousins had to; their stories are kind of like a warning bell in the back of my mind telling me not to attend.</p>
<p>Hopkins is a mecca for aspiring pre-meds for good reasons and as a result draws a group of extremely driven pre-meds. I’m finding myself feeling very intimidated by this. Yes, I’d love to go to Hopkins, but no, I don’t want to (if I can help it) have my dreams crushed in college. </p>
<p>This is somewhat off topic, but my dad (who is a doctor) told me the undergraduate school I attend doesn’t really matter (so long as its in the top 40~), but that my GPA (particularly this), MCAT Scores, and Extras are way more important factors. As a result, I’m looking at schools that I’ve been admitted to that are lower ranked, but would offer me an easier time in attaining that all important GPA. </p>
<p>And with regards to law school - a few lawyers that I’ve been able to talk to say that for some reason, going to an Ivy League school somehow gives you a leg up in the legal world. I’m not too sure if this is true or not…</p>
<p>He’s a psychologist. And both of my kids have now graduated and both are now in graduate school (or, more correctly, my younger one is about to start–at Harvard. Both did well and both loved Hopkins.</p>
<p>And I went to law school after Hopkins. Hopkins does as well placement wise as Penn, Brown, Cornell, Columbia and Dartmouth. Harvard, Yale and Princeton do a bit better.</p>
<p>Hopkins has one of the top debate teams in the country, the breeding ground for future lawyers.</p>
<p>Additionally, being a pre-med @ Penn is not going to be any easier than being a pre-med at Hopkins because these schools are admitting the same students. It’s going to be hard either way.</p>
<p>WealthOfInformation - you brought up a point my parents made. </p>
<p>In your opinion (or for anyone that cares to respond, actually) would it be wiser to go to a slightly less academically intensive school and do well or to go to Penn/Hopkins and perform mediocre?</p>
<p>I read in the other post that medical schools weight GPA of Harvard and Johns Hopkins the most and that JHU has the high reputation as a premed among the medical schools</p>
<p>My advice is to not over think this, and to not fret about it. I believe in going to the best school you can, provided that you think it is a good fit. If you enjoy what you are studying, and are diligent enough to work hard–you will do well enough. The vast majority of medical and law school applicants from Hopkins get into a school of their choice. Its a lot of work–but very achievable if you apply yourself. Lead a balanced life, have some fun in addition to work, and you will be fine.</p>
<p>A lot of good advice above. Yes, JHU pre-med is intense - but not as intense as the admissions pressure to get into a good medical school. I lived in a row house with 4 other guys my last two years at JHU - we were all pre-med and we all got into medical school (Duke, Hopkins, Columbia, Emory and Jefferson - not shabby). We studied hard but were not “cutthroat,” and believe me had plenty of fun and involvement. As an undergraduate, I did several semesters of research in the neuroscience department and had good summer job experiences. I’m perplexed at your concern about underperforming on the MCAT - you’re not competing agains JHU students on that, you are competing against the nation - being at JHU and succeeding in that environment only makes your MCAT performance more likely to be good. Humanities at JHU has been an underappreciated gem for years. Go where you feel best - both schools set you up for any future you choose for yourself.</p>
<p>If you go to Hopkins or Penn, just make sure you take advantage of all the resources there and you’ll do fine. Just be exceptional at a great school. Work hard and you’ll be successful in no matter what you do or where your life takes you.</p>
<p>I mean hopkins pre med is pretty competitive, but as other posters said, you will have much more research opportunities than anywhere. I have friends starting from freshmen year already engaging research with faculties at hopkins med which looks pretty good on ur resume. And I asked my friends who are going to other larger ivies/state schools and it’s almost impossible for a freshman/sophomore, so if u go to penn, there’s a chance that u might just end up not getting research until ur a junior/senior. Plus Hopkins has amazing pre med advising…like best in the nation
And even pre med courses at hopkins aren’t too hard to be honest. I came to hopkins as a pre law and I was never good at science in high school. Then I took all these pre med science courses and I have done really well in them. As long as you just go over lecture notes and do problems, u should be able to get at least B/B+ and getting A is definitely do able. Plus curve is relatively generous, so curve actually helps ur grade so much. plus I have talked to seniors who got into medical schools (like harvard, hopkins, ucsd med) and they all said interviewers know how amazing hopkins’ pre med preparation is and it’s like a big plus for ur app even if u get a lower gpa than applicants from let’s say penn.
Having said all that let me tell u more about pre law at hopkins. I think some poster said hopkins is looking to expand/improve our humanities/social science program…not true…we don’t need to improve/expand it, bcuz we are already really good at them. Our history dept is in top 10, in fact our current professor is the president of american historical asoociation. Our English dept ranks top 10, so are our history of art and near eastern studies dept. Political science is very popular at hopkins as well and in fact the term “political science” was coined by the hopkins professor. Our writing sem dept is known as the best in the nation. Our international studies department is like either ranked 1st or 2nd. In fact, our most popular major is international studies…not biology or neuroscience. Plus our law school admittance rate is higher than our med school admittance rate. I think until recently, almost 100% of applicants got into a law school and a number of ppl get into stanford, harvard, and yale law schools and many more into other top 15 law schools. And our law school advising is amazing too and they regularly hold prelaw events. For example, this week, a panel of hopkins alum who are lawyers are coming and speaking. Next week, admission officers from dc area law schools are holding mock admissions panel. and events like these happen regularly.
Having said all that, even though i came in as a pre law, i m also thinking about pre med and there are a lot of ppl like that. I know this one senior who came to hopkins as a english/music double major who is now receiving joint BS-MS biology degree in four years and trying to choose between hopkins and harvard med.
So you ll get more opportunities in small school like hopkins than a hugh school like Penn.
And one more point…guess who left Penn as the provost to work for hopkins…our new president Ronald Daniels =)
if you have anymore questions, pm me.</p>
<p>I agree with PHead. I was an undergrad at Hopkins and was able to get research with top people… as a sophomore, I asked Vernon Mountcastle ( Book : Medical Physiology, used by all top med schools ) and Al Lehninger ( need I say more ?) …got accepted by both, and settled on Lehninger. You would likely not get that level researcher at Penn ( with all due respect to penn, of course, I know it’s ranked higher than JHU in USNWR)…but purely with respect to research opportunities, it’s the Hop, hands down !</p>
<p>The quality of the posts on this thread is amazingly accurate. I agree with Fav, I was a premed at Hopkins, and when I went to interview at SUNY Buffalo, the interviewer told me the same thing, then he actually showed me the list he had…Hopkins and Harvard undergrad had the two highest weightings for the Buffalo admissions committee ( I presume it’s the same across the US ), even Yale and Stanford, and yes, Penn, had lower weightings! Hopkins is an amazing place. Also , since there is some anecdotal information on this thread, I’m going to give my story… my best friend and I were premeds together…only he had decided to go to Penn above Hopkins. Our academic abilities were the same…I got into 2 Med schools whereas he got into none. Zero. My GPA was higher, but that’s because I think he got lost at Penn. At the Hop, it’s hard to lose sight of your goal. It is tough though at JHH…no question. I still remember a lot of my organic chem…enough to actually contradict a med school biochem professor in class. This occurrence is also not unusual for Hopkins undergrads when they show up at the country’s med schools… my roomie got into Harvard MSTP, and we fi\ound the quality of the basic science teaching to be subpar compared to our undergrad experience.</p>