<p>Hey, I'm starting the whole college application thing, and I know i want to apply early decision to either Johns Hopkins or Vassar. But, obviously, I can't apply ED to both. And i'm torn in the middle.. because I want to be pre-med, and hopkins is, well.. hopkins. but vassar seems a lot more happy and friendly to me, while hopkins seemed a bit cutthroat and hardcore. Any information on this would be EXTREMELY helpful.
:]</p>
<p>These are two very different schools. Have you visited the campuses? Talked to the studnets? I think you should really do a lot of research about them because I have a hard time imagining someone who likes BOTH. That said, I think you already know your answer: Vassar because it seems to be a better fit for you personally, whereas you seem to like JH just because of its name. By the way, you should know that Vassar can offer you an excellet preparation for med school.</p>
<p>Any schools offers you preparation for med school. Its just basic courses like intro chem, general bio, organic chem, physics 101, calc1/2, english courses etc...You can find even professors that teach these courses better than Vassar and JHU. These premed reqs are pretty basic, they are available at almost every single college in the country. </p>
<p>It ultimately comes down to peer competition, grade inflation/deflation, internships/research opportunities and resources, access to a quality premed advising office, and where you will be happy and successful all four years of your life. An institution that has a proven track record of sending premeds into reputatable schools will help to.</p>
<p>I would kinda would like to dispel the first part and the second to last part. Yes, many ppl would like to say....go to a school with less competition, go to a school where you'll be happy and successful, go to a school where its easier to get 4.0 grades so its easier to get into medical school. News flash ppl medical school is no walk in the park as well. Competition to get into medical school these days are pretty fierce. These simple and tried tactics do not work since medical schools these days say they could fill their class 2.5 times with more qualified students but they can't because they have only a 100-200 spaces to fill in a class. These days, most medical schools have acceptance rates hovering below 5% marks. Its even harder to get into a t20-25 medical school....than it is to say Harvard or Yale these days going by purely the number of applicants they accept and reject.</p>
<p>All I got to say is, JHU is challenging in design and because of that, students go into medical school prepared for the evenmore hellish homework and cramming and intense memorization that is involved. You bet you want an undergrad that has succesful forced you through the same hellish hell and has taught you the crucial tools you need to succeed in medical school and not leave you hanging to be eaten by the dogs. The academic intensity exists to serve a purpose...to help get you ready for medical school. Medical school is no walk in the park either, I heard there are even more competition past your step 1/2s test, third year clinical rotations, and when it comes time to choose your residencies....residency selection is just as competitive as well, maybe even more competitive.</p>
<p>It prepares you well for things in life if you are among peers as dedicated and driven as you are. It pushes you to your boundaries. Things are not easy here. Though I'd recommend you check it out more to see if it is right for you.</p>
<p>JHU premed here, I think you should go to JHU. like...unless your up for just any medical school, vassar will do that very fine. research opportunites, amount of top ten programs, academic reputation, affiliation with the medical school, and top 1,2 or 3 premed advising office in the country. I doubt you can even ask for more than that.</p>
<p>You're obviously a high school student, and you wont realize this until you're in college or out of college, but so many people put pressure on 17 year olds to decide their future at 17, and that's a big mistake. It sounds like the only reason you'd be interested in John Hopkins is because of premed, and in all honesty that sounds like a big mistake, because you might find yourself changing your mind. You may think you want to be a Doctor, but that's based on what experience? College is a whole different experience than high school is. It is not just about take a class, get good grades and that's it.</p>
<p>Vassar has excellent placement, and is an excellent school. I honestly don't think you should be applying ED to any of the schools. Early action yes, but ED no. ED is binding, meaning that if you get in, that's where you're going. You're suppose to withdrawl your applications at other schools, regardless of whatever financial aid package you get, because ED is saying "i'm going to your college if you let me in, regardless of anything." To make that kind of commitment so early on is insane! You may not realize this, but once you're in college you'll honestly see why people often change their minds about what career path they want.</p>
<p>If you are really torn between two schools, you should not apply early decision to either of them. Early decision is, in my opinion, very overused. It's an option that's really only for students who are 100% sure (or at least 95%+ sure) that they want to attend a particular school AND 100% sure that no matter what kind of financial aid they get, they can afford to go there. I know that people will tell you one can get out of ED if one cannot afford the school, but the school will be the one who determines whether you can 'afford' it or not.</p>
<p>Just apply regular decision to both schools, and that way you can decide in April or May which one is the best fit for you when you have ALL the information you need, including their financial aid packages. (Just guessing, but you may get better aid from Vassar).</p>
<p>I will also go out on a limb here -- I go to a medical center right now as a graduate student (I'm not in the medical school, but the top 10 medical school and my top 10 public health program share a campus that is part of a larger university) and not all medical schools (including top ones) have extremely competitive student bodies. You don't need to go through hell in undergrad to teach you to cope at the medical level. The students at my center get along very well, help each other out, and hang out with each other on the weekends. It's not cutthroat at all, and some of them are more relaxed than the Ph.D students :D You can be dedicated and driven without being cutthroat and competitive, and sometimes it is in your best interests to play nice.</p>
<p>Both Vassar and JHU can get you into the same medical schools. Really, it depends on you and what you do. I know people who went to my little tier-2 LAC in the South who are now at Harvard, U-Penn, Wash U and Yale medical schools. It depends on your hard work and what you do in undergrad, and you sound like you would be more comfortable at Vassar. But I really recommend that you don't apply ED anywhere because you don't sound 95%+ sure that you want to go to either of those schools.</p>
<p>Well yeah, Yale medical school is the chillest of them all. You got a whole wide range of schools ranging from JHMS to Yale med, which are like the opposites of both spectrums. Kinda like a pass/fail no grade system the first two years. Med schools do range from the highly collaborative to highly competitive. I know a friend who went to Princeton and is now at UPenn and he says that medical school is complete hell... Med school is definitely not fun.</p>
<p>Yeah, you don't need to go through hell (i was exaggerating), in generally, the challenging design of Hopkins will get you ready for medical school. I've never said that competition exist at all medical schools. I said competition among **residency selection **exists, and I said if you go to a comparably easier school, easier to get high GPA, happy like school, that the work at the medical school level will seem like hell. Hopkins provides you the flexibility in case premed is not your top choice to switch to among the many top ten programs we have....Many of the things that I have already mentioned :) Again, Hopkins prepares you well for the hardwork you'll experience in medical school.</p>
<p>I'd probably go to whatever choce school you feel best. I mean, its common for premeds to drop out if you don't get pass weeder course or if they have a change of interest. Go to a school that has flexibility in these choices. Hopkins, Vassar or whatever your choice of school is.</p>
<p>I don't go to Yale.</p>
<p>I'm not discounting that medical school is hard work, I'm just saying that it doesn't have to be the competition circus it's often made out to be, and that one does not have to attend a top 20 medical school to succeed either. Unless you want to go into a research career, it's not even a necessity to go to a top-tier medical school.</p>
<p>I'm sure that Hopkins does prepare one well for the hard work that one will experience in medical school, but so does Vassar, so did my undergraduate college, and really so will any reasonably good college or university with a pre-medical program. One's preparedness for medical school (or any graduate/professional school) really relies much more on what the student him or herself is doing in college than where they go for undergrad, although some colleges certainly have better resources than others. Vassar is a very well-respected school.</p>
<p>Obviously, we are talking about two completely different topics here. </p>
<p>You can completely disagree the competitive part. Like i mentioned before, even the top 20-25 medical school acceptance rate figures are lower than Harvard and Yale's rate of acceptance.</p>
<p>Its not like I'm saying that you've got to a top 20 medical school to succeed or all medical schools are competitive. All med schools are competitive, after your third yr. clinical rotations, thats when you and your peers start really writing essays to your residency directors and trying to get into those highly prized residency programs at respectable hospitals and to get into the field of your choice. Going to a great school helps, but I'm saying that at any medical school, the acceptance rate is unforgiving. Its tough.</p>
<p>Regardless which school you go to, you have to take advantage of every research opportunies and all the pre health resources you possibly can. In the end, its up to you go get those high GPAs and excellent MCAT scores. The school can only provide you an environment for success, it doesn't hand it to you. In the end, just try your best and you will succeed. If you just want to be any doctor, you don't need to go to a top tier medical school or go to a top research medical school. I'll agree with you on that one :)</p>
<p>My main point is...don't choose a school because it has easier grading, more fun, relaxed, chill, less competitive, easier to get 4.0 GPA. Its the simple way out, you'll regret it because you'll be in the shock of your life when you get into medical school. (that is if you get in.)</p>
<p>About not applying ED, I thought i would because for either school, the acceptance rate goes up about 20 percent if you apply ED. my SAT scores aren't the best (1980), and I'd hate to apply to both schools regularly and be turned down. So i figured I'd research both, choose one, and apply ED so there's a bigger change i get into the one i want.</p>
<p>So a lot of you are saying how JHU really prepares you for medschool because it is so challenging.. What I'm wondering is, what makes it more challenging than other school's pre-med, if they're basically the same courses and stuff?</p>
<p>Well, I can't say what makes JHU different from Vassar because I have absolutely no idea what goes on at Vassar, but based on my experience, it has been tough, and when I look back, I know for sure that I've have matured, grown, and gotten better in a good way. Its definitely not like hell that I was talking about, more like challenging to the limit. Challenging by design.</p>
<p>What makes a program challenging? There are weeder course that eliminate the weak early, there is grade deflation where the average class curve is at a B-,there are just ridiculous chemistry lab 1 credit classes which take up lke...10 hours of your time just to finish the lab report...its about the quality of peers around you. Assuming you can get in, you can do the work, admissions know you can do the work which is why they accepted you right.</p>
<p>I kinda realized that most of what I just said....weeder coures, ridiculous intro chem lab, strong peers, tough weeder orgo, competition among premeds....pretty much exists at all schools that are reputable and have a sizeable motivated and strong premed population. Every premed knows they need a 4.0, high MCATs, great ECs, so of course its going to be competitive everywhere. I guess Hopkins is special becase it attract that specific type of premed that shoots for the stars... very motivated.,hardworking,and those who want to make a name for themselves. These are your classmates, so there is reason why it is tough..</p>
<p>Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I guess it all comes down to plain fear of hopkins. i'm scared it will make me not want to be pre-med anymore. whereas vassar, i think, would allow me to enjoy it more. i don't know if that made sense..</p>
<p>..but then again, jhu does seem to prepare better and have more research opportunities with the medschool right there.</p>
<p>..but then again, i want to become a doctor for the love of it. if i don't love doing it, what's the point? </p>
<p>so that's why i'm torn..</p>
<p>That seems to be a problem. Hey, I'm in the same boat as you. I'm like...a king in online stock trading. I want to be a stock investor trader but originally came to Hopkins for premed (my first choice, my parents kinda wanted me to become a doctor, I'm kinda iffy.)</p>
<p>Thats why I'm double majoring in biology and economics so I can apply for the SMART DoD scholarship, see if I can the scholarship, get into medical school (or not) and in the mean time, see if I can use those two years at the DoD as part of my scholarship obligation to day trade the heck out of my salary and pay for medical school. (sounds kinda ambitious huh).</p>
<p>In that case....I'm not really sure...but I guess it ultimately depends what other fields you might be interested in, say if you don't want to do premed anymore, what other fields can you fall back on. You know the deal.</p>
<p>In that case, I'd personally would lean towards Vassar for overall strength in premed and flexibility. Though I can still argue for JHopkins because we have strengths in other areas too. hehe. I exist only to speak for JHopkins... I really have no idea what Vassar's strengths are...but I can speak for JHopkins because I know all of the strengths. :)</p>
<p>sportswiz: Although the aggregate admissions rate for the school goes up 20% for ED, that does not mean that <em>your</em> admissions rate will go up 20%. For an example, the admissions to Columbia last year was 8%. That doesn't mean that every single student had an 8% chance of getting into the school; it just means that for every 100 students 8 were admitted. Some students had very high chances of admissions because of their records and some had lower chances of admissions.</p>
<p>The application rate for ED goes up because ED students tend to be a driven, motivated, self-selecting group of students with higher stats and more ability to pay out of pocket for the college of their choice. Your chances for admission don't magically go up if you apply ED, otherwise everyone would be applying early decision. As a matter of fact, one could say that your chances could go DOWN because the ED group is generally a more competitive group that would likely get in RD anyway. In addition to that, the method you've chosen ("research both, choose one, and apply ED") is not what early decision was designed for. It was designed for students who are positive they want to go somewhere AND positive that they can pay for it and want to finish their application cycles early. If you need substantial financial aid at a school do not apply ED because it is not easy to get out of the contract.</p>
<p>First of all, please keep in mind that I am probably a bit biased in that I am a current Vassar student. That being said, I do know several individuals currently attending Johns Hopkins, including one on the pre-med track, and have a sister who is considering the school. Thus, although I am not a student there, I would say that I have a decent knowledge of Hopkins.</p>
<p>My gut reaction is that you should apply ED to the school where you think you'll be happiest. You're considering two excellent schools, both of which have strong pre-med programs. I know Hopkins is more well-known for pre-med because of its graduate program, but rest assured that Vassar is also a very strong school for pre-med. If you work hard, both schools will help you get into a fine medical school.</p>
<p>Also, there seems to be a bit of a bias in this thread towards Johns Hopkins that I would like to right. I do not doubt that Hopkins is a challenging school which demands much of its students, however, would like to point out that Vassar is quite similar. There's no "grade inflation" that takes place at Vassar, and the school is certainly not a place for slackers. It might not be as outwardly competitive as Hopkins, but that's because Vassar students are usually more concerned about doing the best they can do as individuals and less about trying to be number one in the class. It's about competing with yourself rather than competing with others.</p>
<p>Lastly, I would urge you to check out the Vassar College pre-med program website: Vassar</a> College || Admissions. It's a testament to the sort of preparation that a Vassar education gives to its pre-med students and outlines the process you'd be going through as a pre-med student at Vassar.</p>
<p>Phead.. wow.. good luck with all that :]</p>
<p>but yeah.. you said you're currently a jhu pre-med, right? without all the hype about the school, are you honestly enjoying being a hopkins pre-med?
is it harder or easier than you thought it would be?</p>
<p>You might be happier at Vassar should you choose not to be premed....depending on which field you choose, Hopkins may or may not be a stronger choice.</p>
<p>In the end, many of the above posters agree, ED is too tough a decision to make based on acceptance rate issues (whether or not your chances do increase like 20%, as julliet has pointed out...doesn't mean your chances would increase 20% since the pool is more competitive), financial issues (you've gotta accept whatever finaid package they give you, where as RD, you can compare your selected choices), and career choice issue (your not sure about premed, don't apply ED just yet :) )</p>
<p>Yeah, Good luck. Btw, What other things could you see yourself doing if not becoming a doctor?</p>
<p>littleathiest, i liked what you said about competing with yourself instead of with others.. that's what i was thinking but couldn't put into words.. at jhu it seems like everybody just wants to be number 1. but i've heard that one year the number 1 student at jhu was not even accepted into the med school.
so i don't know if it's really worth all of the "hell" of jhu undergrad, if vassar will give me the same/similar chances of getting into the medschool that i want.</p>
<p>are there many pre-meds at vassar? some people say it's mostly a drama/art school.. is that true?</p>
<p>Thanks phead, and everyone else :] Maybe i'll apply early action instead then.</p>
<p>I've wanted to be a doctor my whole life.. so it's sorta been a given. I mean, wherever i go, it would have to be really REALLY hellish to make me quit pre-med, because i want to be a doctor so much.</p>
<p>Vassar is certainly not just a school for those who want to be drama and art majors: it is strong in a variety of different departments, including biology, psychology, biochemistry, chemistry, and neuroscience. You'll find that, although there are students at the school who are drama and art majors, most are not.</p>
<p>And yes, there are plenty of pre-med students at Vassar. I've taken two biology classes so far at the school and found, particularly in my intermediate level class, that the majority of the thirty-five person class was pre-med.</p>
<p>ohh okay well that's good. i did visit vassar and immediately fell in love with the campus.. i mean, who wouldn't..
but, overall, are you happy at vassar? would you mind giving me a few pros and cons?</p>