Johns Hopkins

College Search & Selection
21

<p>Hopkins is not as well known to high schoolers as some of its peer institutions because:1) except for lacrosse, where it plays in Div I and has 43 national championships, it is not a major sport school; and 2) it is not an Ivy. However, Hopkins is very well known among educated adults. It's USNWR peer rating is 4.6--which is higher than Dartmouth, Brown, Northwestern, Wash U, Rice, Northwestern, etc. Internationally, it is very well known. Hopkins has been number 1 in funded research for almost 40 years---and has more than twice the amount of funded research than Stanford--which is number 3.</p>

<p>It is true that Hopkins matriculation yield is lower than the Ivies. This is due to a number of reasons. In no particular order: 1) Hopkins has a very strong applicant pool (@15,000 applications for 1200 spaces) and most accepted students also get into Ivies and other top schools. Some people choose an Ivy over JHU for no reason other than its an Ivy. Not a good reason in my opinion but each to his own. 2) There is an urban myth about Hopkins being in a bad neighborhood. This is mostly due to the fact that Johns Hopkins Hospital and the medical campus are in a relatively bad neighborhood in East Baltimore. In contrast, Arts & Sciences and Engineering are on the Homewood campus in North Baltimore. That campus is beautiful and very safe--and the neighborhood is fine and quite interesting. 3) Hopkins is in Baltimore and Baltimore has a mixed reputation. Baltimore is a city of contrasts. It has some very beautiful and safe areas (including the areas surrounding Homewood) but also has some very bad, dangerous areas which are to be avoided. If you are familiar with urban environments, you won't have any problem. If not, you will need to development some street smarts--which is a good skill to have anyway. When you get to know Baltimore--you will discover that it is a very interesting place with its own quirky personality. While its not Boston or Palo Alto--I'd rather go to school in North Baltimore than in New Haven, Ithaca, West Philly or Durham.
4) Hopkins has a mostly undeserved reputation for cut-throat academics. It does have a lot of pre-meds (about 1/3 of the class starts out as premed and @1/4 of the class end up that way and go to med school. Pre meds everywhere tend to be grade obsessed and because Hopkins has more of them than other places, people think everyone is grade obsessed. Its simply not true. What is true is that Hopkins is an intense academic environment--but most good students thrive on that. Intense is different than cut-thoat. 5) Some people think of Hopkins as a "nerd" school. This is somewhat true. One third of the undergraduates are engineering students--which is quite a bit higher than the Ivies. And there are quite a few absolute geniuses walking around. But the vast majority of undergraduates are simply normal, very bright kids. Visit the campus when school is in session and you will quickly find out whether or not you feel comfortable.
6) Some people say that Hopkins emphasizes graduated education and research over undergraduates. There is some truth to this but the charge is largely overblown. Yes, Brown and Dartmouth feel more like liberal arts colleges because, frankly, they are more like liberal arts colleges. They have small, relatively undistinguished graduate programs and do a fraction of the research you will find at a place like Hopkins. If that's what you prefer--go for it. The advantage of attending a major research institution like Hopkins is that the opportunies for engaging in research are vast and that you can learn a lot (maybe more) by doing research as opposed to reading and talking about it. Basically, by the time you are a junior--you are treated much the same way that graduate students are. You have the opportunity to work closely and directly with world-class faculty on cutting-edge research. you can't get that at a liberal art college.</p>

<p>The bottom line is that Hopkins is an absolutely terrific place for bright, highly motivated students willing to work hard. You will be rewarded with a superior education. And you can also have a great time there. While you will find some overly obsessed students who do nothing but study--the vast majority of undergraduates know how to balance work and social life.</p>

22

<p>Great post Bonanza, perhaps you should post more often and help we few dispel myths about JH.</p>

23

<p>Thanks Bonanza, that's probably one of the best first posts ever.</p>

24

<p>bonanza, </p>

<p>
[quote]
Hopkins has been number 1 in funded research for almost 40 years---and has more than twice the amount of funded research than Stanford--which is number 3.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It's pretty much all medical research though. Don't see how that matters to undergrad or most other fields. Stanford's funding is spread a lot more evenly across many different fields.</p>

25

<p>False. Of the 1 billion or so dollars in federal research (not even considering private/endowed research) received last year, $471.6 million went to the medical school.</p>

<p>While this is a lot, this benefits undergraduates because many of them to cutting edge research at the medical school/school of public health.</p>

<p>The rest ends up at Homewood (A&S, Eng), the APL and Bloomberg. Many students do great research at these places too.</p>

<p>Before you say something like that, have some statistics.</p>

<p>EDIT: <a href="http://www.jhu.edu/%7Egazette/2007/12feb07/12ranks.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.jhu.edu/~gazette/2007/12feb07/12ranks.html&lt;/a>
1.44 Billion in research, 471.6 million @ med school (see USNEWS)</p>

26

<p>JHU is a solid school but it has a few problems:</p>

<ul>
<li>bad location in Bulletmore</li>
<li>horrible social scene, or at least a reputation for a horrible social scene</li>
<li>the strength of its student body is a bit lower than other top 15 or so schools</li>
<li>Grad programs are very highly regarded (hence PA score of 4.6) but in general undergrad is in grad's shadow</li>
</ul>

27

<p>Seriously? Bad location? If there is a better location in this city, I'd like to see it. And do you have any quantitative source judging the strength of the student body?</p>

<p>Here are the statistics (including enrolled) for JHU class of 2010.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/statistics/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/statistics/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

28

<p>"And do you have any quantitative source judging the strength of the student body?"</p>

<p>coolguy -
JHU's 25/75% SATs is 1290-1490. 80% in top 10% of graduating HS class. ~25 National Merit Scholars this year. It ranks 24th on the WSJ Feeder rankings. </p>

<p>Compare to Brown, which ranks outside of the top 10 on US News. SATs are 1350-1530, 91% of students in top 10% of HS class, with 90 National Merit Scholars, and a rank of 12 on WSJ feeder rankings.</p>

<p>Yeah, JHU certainly does lag a bit in terms of student strength.
It doesn't have a vibrant social scene that compensates for this either.
Still a top 20 school.</p>

29

<p>To update the above poster: Class of 2010 SAT Middle 50%: 1340-1540 (<a href="http://apply.jhu.edu/facts/facts.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://apply.jhu.edu/facts/facts.html&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;/p>

<hr>

<p>One of the huge benefits of Hopkins is that the students that choose to go there, go there for the right reason: they want to learn. I think Hopkins has the advantage of getting the students it wants rather than attracting the wrong type of student (ivy-or-bust mentality, don't-care-what-I-learn-as-long-as-it-has-a-name college students). </p>

<p>The students at Hopkins are very different than a lot of schools. They work doggedly because they are interested in the material but do have fun on the weekends (parties at Hopkins are pretty great in fact). </p>

<p>As far as highly selective schools, there are some areas where I think Hopkins is slightly superior to the peer institutions (top 10 privates).</p>

<p>1. Intellectually-engaged student body as a whole.</p>

<p>Hopkins does have a very engaged student body when it comes to academics. I feel this is a major strength of the campus because the students at Hopkins appear to have made the choice to be there as they naturally had many, many options. It certainly is not a place for everyone but those who are seeking late-night intellectual conversations with peers, assiduously inquisitive counterparts and intellectual growth find Hopkins to be a wonderfully, stimulating place.</p>

<p>*2. National Championship DIV. I Athletic Team = HUGE school spirit *</p>

<p>Students, faculty, alumni and the community all rally around the best-known Lacrosse team in the country. It's a major part of the campus, a major part of the student body and a major part of the institutional identity. </p>

<p>*3. Cohesive, architecturally-consistent & green city campus *</p>

<p>The campus is quite impressive with brick walkways, Jeffersonian architecture and all parts of the undergraduate campus can be walked to in 15 minutes which is a major bonus. It <em>feels</em> like a college campus with clock-tower-chimes on the hour, every hour and the cherry blossoms in the spring.</p>

<p>*4. Small entering freshman class (1200) *</p>

<p>This I believe is one of the most powerful features of Johns Hopkins. Of all the major research universities in the USA, Johns Hopkins has one of the smallest entering freshman classes which means access to faculty is there and the classes are small and challenging. According to the website, the average class size: 11</p>

<p>*5. 80% of undergraduates do research (!!!) *</p>

<p>This is equally as compelling as the aforementioned details about Hopkins. Undergraduate research appears to be a major thread in all departments and in all disciplines which I think relates to the fact that such a high number of students follow up with graduate school right away (42%) based on what I could find on the website. </p>

<p>Post-graduation survey: <a href="http://www.jhu.edu/%7Ecareers/handouts/pgs2005.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.jhu.edu/~careers/handouts/pgs2005.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

30

<p>coolguyusa123,</p>

<p>Okay, I was wrong about it being all medical. I didn't know a thing about their APL. But I stand corrected that the JHU's funding isn't spread evenly across many fields like Stanford. Out of that 1.277 billion from the fed, 678 million went to Applied Physics Lab. That leaves 600 million. Out of that 600 million, $471.6 million went to the medical school. So that leaves 130 million for the rest. In other words, roughly 90% go to medical + APL.</p>

<p>Edit: I just found that APL is actually located 20 miles north of DC. It's essentially a military/space R&D facility (stringent standard for security clearance). So I really wonder how undergrads benefit from that. Most people can't even have access to it.</p>

31

<p>Wealth of Information,</p>

<p>Those are stats for accepted students. Since lots of the top admits turn down JHU for higher ranked schools, not surprisingly, the average SAT score for JHU is about 50 points lower.</p>

<p>Average SAT for JHU: 1290 - 1490 </p>

<p>Every top 10 school (HYPSM, Dartmouth, Duke, Penn, Brown, Columbia, Cal Tech) has everything you mention such as intellectual student body, research opps, fun. They might even be better at all of those categories, but since you can't measure fun I won't bother discussing it.</p>

<p>However, the top 10-15 schools attract stronger students than JHU and have better post-grad placement. This, combined with its reputation of lack of social life, and being in Bulletmore, hurts its standings. I still consider it a top 20 school, at the very least.</p>

32

<p>thethoughtprocess--yeah you can compare it to Brown, but you can also compare Hopkins to NU, Cornell and Chicago--all three have virtually the same statistics. Further, I understand how you may consider the WSJ feeder rankings a gauge of student quality, but I find this misdirected. How does getting into what the WSJ considers a "top 5" professional school determine anything about student quality? Firstly, they lack the breadth of schools to actually consider what is considered "top" in the respected fields, and most of the best, most interested students at Hopkins go to graduate school, which was totally dismissed from the "feeder" rankings.</p>

<p>EDIT: thethoughtprocess, I see your new post, aside from the WSJ feeder rankings, you have any data supporting that the schools you metioned actually do better postgrad? <a href="http://www.jhu.edu/careers/docs/postgrad_Class05.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.jhu.edu/careers/docs/postgrad_Class05.pdf&lt;/a>, at the bottom it breaks down most frequented graduate schools. It seems pretty comparable to all the other schools you listed. I used the class of 05 only because it is more easy to read. If you go to 06, you can see the same info, just not as easily viewable.</p>

33

<p>And yet it still has THE best Art History Faculty in the country and one of the best programs nationwide. </p>

<ol>
<li>Johns Hopkins</li>
<li>NYU</li>
<li>U. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign</li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>UC Berkeley</li>
<li>U. of Chicago</li>
<li>UCLA</li>
<li>U. of Maryland at College Park</li>
<li>CUNY Graduate Center</li>
<li>Stanford</li>
</ol>

<p>(<a href="http://arthistorynewsletter.com/blog/?p=395%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://arthistorynewsletter.com/blog/?p=395&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;/p>

<p>Not all things are determined by research dollars.</p>

34

<p>thethoughtprocess,</p>

<p>Can you cite your source for enrolling data for average SAT? Or are you just assuming that every school drops 50 points for an enrolling class?</p>

<p>I also disagree with you saying that all top 10 schools offer the same things that Hopkins does. They do offer similar things but at different levels. For example here is the breakdown based on the criteria I have set above which I think these schools offer equally well:</p>

<ol>
<li>Intellectually-engaged student body as a whole.</li>
<li>National Championship DIV. I Athletic Team = HUGE school spirit</li>
<li>Cohesive, architecturally-consistent & green city campus</li>
<li>Small entering freshman class (1200)</li>
<li>80% of undergraduates do research (!!!)</li>
</ol>

<p>Harvard: 1,3,5
Yale: 1, 3, 4
Princeton: 1, 2 (lax), 5 (princeton plans to grow 500+ students in the next few years)
Stanford: 1, 2, 3
MIT: 1, 4, 5
Dartmouth: 4
Duke: 2, 4
Penn: 3, 5
Brown: 1, 3, 4
Columbia: 1, 3, 4, 5
Cal Tech: 1, 4, 5</p>

<p>They are all different and offer different things so it' s important to recognize the differences. Neither is better than the other but if students are looking for the 5 things that I mentioned above, yes all these schools can offer something close to it or similar but not identical.</p>

<p>It depends on the student.</p>

35

<p>coolguy, isn't JHU known for its med school placement? How is using the WSJ feeder ranking misdirected? In fact, JHU med school is one of the 15 used in the survey.</p>

<p>The % class rank, SAT scores, National Merit Scholars all stand too. Chicago and Northwestern have Slightly higher stats, but then again many other schools have much higher stats - these include HYPSM, Brown (aforementioned), Dartmouth, Penn, Duke, Columbia, Cal Tech.</p>

<p>So JHU is solid in the top 20, but distinctly behind the top 10 or so privates. </p>

<p>Wealth of Information:
<a href="http://apps.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?collegeId=808&profileId=6%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://apps.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?collegeId=808&profileId=6&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

36

<p>wealth, it's here
<a href="http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/statistics/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/statistics/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

37

<p>thoughtprocess, because student placement is more than just professional school, it should include graduate (i.e. Ph.D) as well, because well over half the class does not go to medical school. Many of the best students go on to graduate school. Further, many great students don't go to top medical schools as per usnews (let alone the 5 WSJ sampled) because they have no need to. Going to a top 5 or so medical school gives you a big boost in academics, sure. But if you are a good student, you can get any residency from any well-respected medical school. Many good students don't want to shell out the $200,000 when they can do just as well from their state medical school.</p>

<p>My link, (<a href="http://www.jhu.edu/careers/docs/postgrad_Class05.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.jhu.edu/careers/docs/postgrad_Class05.pdf&lt;/a&gt;), was to show you the most frequented graduate, medical and law schools by Hopkins graduates. I defy you to find a list at any of the schools you mentioned which is "far" superior to it.</p>

38

<p>Dude, I'm not saying that other schools are "far" superior.</p>

<p>They attract stronger students, which go on in higher proportions to top professional schools (med included). I'm not going to dig up a propaganda sheet by another school when plenty of standardized info is already available.</p>

<p>JHU is a fine school, but there is a reason why many top students choose higher ranked colleges. That is what the OP was asking. I'm not trying to say JHU is a bad school, just that its not surprising others are more highly regarded.</p>

39

<p>yeah - because they are ranked higher.</p>

40

<p>Interesting point, more highly regarded by who? Students? Other colleges? Employers? Academics? I mean, we could look at peer assessment scores, but that would cause a whirlwind of trouble.</p>