<p>I am interested in completing some sort of engineering/business or economics<br>
program for undergrad college. Does anyone know of some joint degree programs such as Penn's Management and Technology (Jerome Fisher) program in which it is possible to earn an engineering and business degree within four years.</p>
<p>I know numerous people at MIT who have obtained both a bachelor's in engineering and a bachelor's in management from the Sloan School. At MIT, there is no such joint undergraduate 'program', nor do you have to ask for anybody's permission to do it. You just go and complete the requirements for both degrees. Heck, a girl I worked with completed a bachelor's in EECS, an MEng in EECS, and a bachelor's from Sloan, all in 4.5 years.</p>
<p>I know that at Berkeley, there have been people who have completed a bachelor's in engineering and a Haas undergrad degree at the same time.</p>
<p>Sakky, I am interested in going into engineering because I love math and science and I know that engineering trains the mind very well. Ultimately however, I do not plan on becoming a pure engineer. Instead I want to go into business. I also plan on getting an MBA. If this is the case, then is an engineering degree worthwhile, and what minors would you reccommend if I can not find a dual degree program. </p>
<p>Also, is it possible for engineers to go directly into a business field such as IBanking and if so, how common is this?</p>
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<p>Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 44 Sakky, I am interested in going into engineering because I love math and science and I know that engineering trains the mind very well. Ultimately however, I do not plan on becoming a pure engineer. Instead I want to go into business. I also plan on getting an MBA. If this is the case, then is an engineering degree worthwhile, and what minors would you reccommend if I can not find a dual degree program.
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<p>The question is, do you like engineering enough that you could actualy envision working as an engineer for a few years (not saying that you must, but could you see yourself doing it) and then go get your MBA, or do you NEVER want to work as an engineer because you just don't like engineering but you just see it as a way to make money and/or a path to an MBA?</p>
<p>If it's the latter, then I would probably say that you should not get an engineering degree. I say that with sadness, but the fact is, I think an engineering degree is just too much work if you never plan to ever work as an engineer. Yes, you can talk about training your mind and learning self-discipline and all that, but at the end of the day, I don't know if it's worth it if you never plan to be an engineer. I would say this is even more true if you just don't like engineering. Engineering just too darn time-consuming - time that you could probably put to better use, like starting your own company or attending business presentations, or learning how to get good at public speaking, or all those other things that will teach you important business skills. You only live once, so I don't think it's worthwhile to be spending years of your life studying you hate.</p>
<p>However, you say that you love math and science, and then in that case, engineering does indeed offer a powerful way to mold your interests into a marketable degree. Particularly, if you are interested in combining an interest in science with an interest in business - engineering is the logical way to proceed.</p>
<p>Minors don't really matter when it comes to getting into an MBA program. The fact of the matter is, what you studied in undergrad pays very little role in MBA admissions. What matters far more is your work experience and your leadership abilities. Nobody is going to say "Oh, I see you minored in X, and that's what put you over the top, so now we'll admit you, whereas if you hadn't minored in X, we would not have admitted you". </p>
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Also, is it possible for engineers to go directly into a business field such as IBanking and if so, how common is this?
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<p>It is quite common to be hired into IB right after undergrad engineering from premier engineering schools. But when I say premier, I mean premier. It's basically the MIT's and Stanford's and schools of that caliber where this sort of thing usually happens. Don't expect to get into IB if you get an engineering degree from a no-name school.</p>
<p>Well I am looking into the schools that you mentioned as well as other similar schools. I certainly would not mind going into engineering for a few years but I have been deterred from going into this field by my father, a chemical engineer. He runs a company and feels that most of the engineering jobs will be outsourced. </p>
<p>If I were to work as an engineer, how would that affect my admissions into an MBA program. Why would they care what I did as an engineer. </p>
<p>Also, do IBanks look more at the school or at the engineering program. What I mean by this is that Penn engineering is ranked loweer than University of Illinois engineering yet Penn is the higher ranked college overall.</p>
<p>True - a lot of engineering jobs may eventually become outsourced.</p>
<p>However, what is also true is that a lot of other jobs may also eventually become outsourced, or simply disappear altogether and replaced by technology. In fact, I would argue that when it comes to outsourcing, engineering jobs are in fact safer than the vast majority of other jobs out there in terms of outsourceability or technological obsolescence. </p>
<p>For example, look at IB and other related finance jobs. You think these jobs are perfectly safe? Hardly so. There is a growing trend to move IB research jobs overseas. After all, a guy in India with the right skills and the right tools can research investments and create optimal portfolios just as well as a guy in Manhattan. In the next few years, I can see therefore see brokerages outsourcing much of their research staff overseas. In fact, India is already talking about trying to expand its finance research capabilities. And a lot of the 'gruntwork' that IB analysts do as part of their jobs can and already is being outsourced overseas. For example, all of the fact-checking and review/editing of documents that analysts do (i.e. the analyst grunt work). Think about it - do you really need to be physically in an office on Wall Street to be doing that stuff? Why couldn't that stuff be sent to some guys in India? It already is, and almost certainly more of it will happen in the future. The net result is that IB's will need less analysts. </p>
<p>In fact, I would argue that is any industry is really going to encounter a lot of outsourcing, it's that entire field of 'business services', or which IB and finance are just subsectors. The fact is, when you think about it, there are many things done by bankers and financiers today that could very easily be done in another country at lower cost. All the research, all the analysis, all the writing up of documents - basically, the bulk of the work that bankers currently do - could all potentially be outsourced. And to some extent it already is being outsourced, and probably will be even more outsourced in the future. </p>
<p>Hence, the point is, I don't see IB as a 'refuge' from outsourcing. You shouldn't run away from engineering and into IB just because you're afraid of outsourcing. That's like jumping out of the frying pan and into the frier. </p>
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If I were to work as an engineer, how would that affect my admissions into an MBA program. Why would they care what I did as an engineer.
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<p>Because engineering jobs tend to give people strong business responsibilities. The field of engineering is intimately linked to business. Engineering is, crassly put, basically just marrying science to business. It's about how to apply science principles to make money. For example, electrical engineers take knowledge of electricity and physics and mathematics and use it to make profitable products. Chemical engineers use their knowledge of chemistry and physics in order to make profitable products. Hence, by working as an engineer, you learn how business works. </p>
<p>Obviously the MBA program doesn't care about what you specifically did on your engineering job as far as the minute technical details. But what they care about is that you were able to show that you were able to understand how to work in teams, and how to create profitable products, and how to get things done in a company. That's what successful engineers do. If you're not able to do those things, then you're probably not going to be a good MBA candidate anyway. </p>
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Also, do IBanks look more at the school or at the engineering program. What I mean by this is that Penn engineering is ranked loweer than University of Illinois engineering yet Penn is the higher ranked college overall.
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<p>School is more important. Marquee name of the school is more important to IB's than the specific ranking of a particular department of a particular school. For example, I think all IB's would be highly interested in a Yale engineer, despite the relatively low rankings of the Yale engineering program.</p>
<p>Do engineers face an inherent disadvantage in attempting to get an IBank job compared to say econ or business majors. For example, would a Penn engineering student be on an even playing field when competing with a Wharton student for an Ibanking job. (To eliminate the prestige factor, maybe I should compare an MIT engineering student to a Wharton student) </p>
<p>What would you classify as Marquee universities? Do IBanks primarily look at HYPSM engineers or would they also look at an engineer from Duke, Chicago, and lower level Ivies. </p>
<p>Finally, how would an engineering degree compare to a physics degree in terms of eventually getting an MBA and going into IBAnking after undergrad.</p>
<p>Chicago has engineering? Really? When did that happen? </p>
<p>I believe that engineers face something of an inherent disadvantage to econ/business majors mostly due to the social factors. As an econ/business major at a top-ranked program, you are going to be surrounded by people who want to get into IB, hence you will inevitably hear about IB events and you'll get to socialize with people who will be getting into IB, which means you can learn from them. Also, hanging out with top-flight business students tends to force you to build your communications and public-speaking skills that are so important in getting you an IB job offer in the first place. </p>
<p>Hence, I don't think that academically speaking, business/econ majors have much of an edge over engineering students in getting hired. How, socially and educationally speaking, they probably have an edge. For example, while the engineering student is in his dorm hacking through problem sets, the business student is out at an IB networking event. </p>
<p>Marquee universities are basically anything in the top 15-20, although obviously higher is better. </p>
<p>An engineer is usually better off than a physics guy in terms of getting a decent job (not necessarily IB), because the engineer has a set career path waiting for him, but the physics guy doesn't. Neither has any advantage over the other in getting into IB. However, if the engineer doesn't get into IB, the engineer can just go and be an engineer, and that is a very well-worn and proven path to eventually getting your MBA. The physics student's career path is less set.<br>
Hence, I would say that engineering is a 'safer' choice than physics, in terms of career marketability. </p>
<p>Let's keep in mind that not everybody who wants an IB offer will get one. Plenty of people, even at the elite schools, spend all their undergrad years trying to set themselves up for an IB analyst job - and don't get anything. It therefore behooves you to think of what you are going to do if you don't get anything.</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice. And you are correct that Chicago does not have an engineering program. </p>
<p>Do you have any links on this topic and on the process of going after an IB job after college? How difficult is it to enter this field?</p>
<p>Finally, if as an engineer, I was able to join econ/finance and other related clubs, would this nullify the advantage held by students in those other majors.</p>
<p>Sakky, sorry to keep bothering you with questions but your information has been very helpful. </p>
<p>I recall reading a previous post of yours in which you reccommended going after a BS and masters in engineering in four years rather than completing a double major. </p>
<p>Do you know how practical this is, as well as where (what competitive colleges) and how it can be done?</p>