Journalism Experience at different levels

Graduate School Law School
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<p>Hi. I lurk on and off this board.</p>

<p>I have a question about law school admissions (and history graduate school as well. It is totally different, I know, but I figured there would be some knowledge concurrence here).</p>

<p>It's been said many times on this board that extracurriculars in undergrad don't matter at all, or very little.</p>

<p>So I have a decision to make. In my first year in college, I've written as a new staffer for my college paper. I've written 25 pieces. I'm not the top writer or anything, or even the best freshman writer. But I dare to say my stuff is pretty solid, and I spent a lot of time on one piece which was pretty damn good - it was discussed in a faculty meeting.</p>

<p>I've enjoyed journalism, but it's not the end-all of my life. And it does suck up a lot of time. I feel a discomfort when I have to put articles before problem sets or papers. I definitely could not handle being the editor in chief. It's really an involved hobby for me. The biggest thing, I suppose, is that I do like taking classes, and writing for the paper hurts that. My courseload can't be as heavy as I want it to (not insane, but on the heavy side), with me still getting the very top grades. The second semester grades haven't come in, but it seems like I am hovering on the very border of the top quintile and the second quintile. </p>

<p>So, regarding law schools, what does this mean? Should I quit the paper? It won't be a huge blow to my own interests, and this means that I will have more free time, but I would be a bit reluctant if experience in journalism would help me for law school in ways I don't know. Some of the graduating editors are going to law school, but I don't know if there is any causation, or if it is just correlation between the same types of people.</p>

<p>So, help.</p>

<p>P.S. : Hi, Wildflower. When I more actively lurked on here months ago, you weren't here. I've been seeing some of your comments and they're fun to read. :D How did all the stuff for you go? I read the first post you posted here (the good writing one), and I hope I'm not intruding by asking!</p>

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<p>Ericmeng,</p>

<p>First of all, thanks for pointing out the "talk" to Wildflower and not, necessarily, "listen" to Wildflower on a different thread. That is certainly true, as I don't have the knowledge that some of the posters here do -BTW, Sakky is amazing; she posts good info, for the most part;), all over the forum. Nevertheless, when I give an advice or share something I try to be as accurate as possible. I, normally, refrain from sharing when I am not positive that I am contributing, and/or know what I am talking about.</p>

<p>Anyway, in your case, I would only drop the writing if you don't enjoy it. If you do enjoy it, by all means, continue -Just don't get a leadership position, and try to see if you could, may be, lighten your responsibility load with the paper. It is obvious however, that academics MUST be your priority -even if not sure about law school. Then again, as I recall somebody telling me (greybeard or concernedad?), the writing you do now will be beneficial for law school; especially if this is published. I wouldn't say that journalism, per se, would be a definite plus, or a deciding factor, for law school in any way though. So, in short, the decision is yours -not a lot of help, I know;).</p>

<p>Now, in my case, I will be attending a regional top school in the Northwest -they offered me a full-tuition scholarship, and well, finances are an issue. I will, most likely, give Stanford a shot as a transfer next year - I visited it recently and, OMG, it was AWESOME:D; I loved the place! So, if they accept me next year I'll go there. If not, I am actually very happy with the school I will attend this fall -I have already met with faculty and people, ect-,so I would not mind staying there, either. They do have a decent background for supporting/sending people to the professional schools I want to attend, so I should be OK -GPA doesn't concern me, but I'll have to focus strongly on the LSAT. Anyway, too much personal info for now. Thanks for the inquiry though!</p>

<p>Warm Regards,</p>

<p>WF</p>

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<p>Will I have to play the guessing game with your 'top regional school' like you are playing with ariesathena?</p>

<p>Is it Reed? I almost went there.</p>

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<p>lol. No, you don't have to. Also, I will not comment more on the subject -personal reasons, and I hope you understand. It is not Reed however -end of discussion. :D</p>

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<p>I understand. Fin! [To your undergrad school, not to my OP.]</p>

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<p>This is my opinion...and only that.</p>

<p>First, I've read some of your work. It's good. I'd really hate to see you quit.</p>

<p>Given how highly rated your undergrad is, the truth is that you will get cut a little slack. Folks who don't go to colleges at the top of the heap may dispute that, but from what I've seen undergrad alma mater does matter. </p>

<p>Class rank at such a school matters very, very little in terms of law school admissions. </p>

<p>In terms of absolute numbers, how much of a difference are you talking about? If you could get a 3.9 without being on the paper or a 3.2 with the paper, I'd reluctantly agree you should quit. If the difference is between a 3.75 and 3.85, I'd say go for the paper. </p>

<p>While undergrad ECs are MUCH less important than high school ECs, they do matter some. How much they matter varies by school. With no ECs, you can forget Yale and Stanford, for example. The same is true lower down on the totem pole. Some schools pay NO attention to ECs. Others , while still weighing gpa and LSAT more heavily, really don't take people who didn't do SOMETHING in college, unless they made up for it after college with work experience. </p>

<p>Your LSAT score will be VERY important..no matter where you go to school. We have PSedrish's daughter as an example. She scored a 180 on the LSAT and had a 3.25 or so gpa at Harvard undergrad. She got into Harvard Law and won a free ride at UMich-AA. So, part of what you have to factor in is how good you are at taking standardized tests and/or how much time you are willing to put into studying for them. If, realistically, you know it's probable you can score above a 172 or so, I'd really say keep working on the paper. If reality is that you are one of those kids who could spend a year prepping and still wouldn't break 165...then, if the gpa difference will be more than .2, quit the paper. </p>

<p>BTW, it's not just PSedrish's daughter. My favorite law student a/k/a my kid used to do a competitive academic type EC in high school. About half the kids who did it way back when went to law school. All are in top 14 schools and the majority are at Harvard or Yale or will begin one or the other this fall. I know that at least one of them attended AWS (the top 3 LACs) and didn't end up in the top 35% of the class---but is still at Harvard Law. So, PSedrish's daughter is not an isolated case. If you can nail the LSAT and you write well--hint: I think you do---you aren't really going to need perfect grades to make a top law school. That's really the benefit of attending one of the best univesities in the nation. </p>

<p>I hope this message makes SOME sense ;). If you have any questions, PM me.</p>

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<p>"In terms of absolute numbers, how much of a difference are you talking about? If you could get a 3.9 without being on the paper or a 3.2 with the paper, I'd reluctantly agree you should quit. If the difference is between a 3.75 and 3.85, I'd say go for the paper."</p>

<p>I agree. We talk a lot on this board about the hit you take in GPA for majors or schools - but Jonri is right here. If there is not much of a change in your GPA, then it won't substantially affect your chances at law schools. Some might find the writing good enough to compensate; other schools might find straight-up GPA to be more important. If you break a 3.1 or 3.2 at an excellent school and ace the LSAT, you should be able to get in almost anywhere. </p>

<p>The other piece of advice I have is to not be afraid to start law school after age 22. If you do the paper, love it, and your GPA takes a hit, then working after college (and taking grad courses) can diminish the effects of the GPA. It's also, IMO, very important to have some sort of real-world experience before law school; you'll go through three years with anal, neurotic people in a high-stress environment, and experience outside of academia does tend to diminish those effects.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the advice, Jonri and Ariesathena! The difference in my GPA probably would not be more than +0.2, at the most.</p>

<p>So I guess I'll see! I can think about whether or not I have the summer to think about whether I'll be involved in the same capacity next fall.</p>

<p>I really do have a love-hate relationship with journalism. I feel a certain 'something' when I am out in the field, getting quotes, writing stories, but I do not want to spend more than a day a week in that environment!</p>

<p>I also have another, totally unrelated question that I'm not sure has ever been addressed on this board (or at least I couldn't find it).</p>

<p>What are the chances of getting merit aid at places that do offer them (i.e. Michigan, NYU). What is the institutional motivation for offering this merit aid, anyways? Same as undergraduate merit aid? I know it's being extremely optimistic to think about this, but I definitely want to do what I can to avoid taking out those burdensome loans.</p>

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<p>"I also have another, totally unrelated question that I'm not sure has ever been addressed on this board (or at least I couldn't find it).</p>

<p>What are the chances of getting merit aid at places that do offer them (i.e. Michigan, NYU). What is the institutional motivation for offering this merit aid, anyways? Same as undergraduate merit aid? I know it's being extremely optimistic to think about this, but I definitely want to do what I can to avoid taking out those burdensome loans."</p>

<p>Excellent question Ericmeng! I was just wondering about the same thing for the past couple days </p>

<p>So. congrats for beating me to it:D</p>

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<p>I don't know about merit aid for those two schools specifically. Merit aid in law school is fairly rare. Financial aid is usually only loans. PSedrish's D got merit aid to UMich, but she was also accepted to Harvard. I know someone who got offered merit to Chicago but is going elsewhere. So mostly, schools have to be sure that you are going to get in somewhere else and want to lure you there. </p>

<p>Often, better-endowed schools can give more aid. Some schools have merit aid for things like being from rural Appalachia (which, unless you intend on moving before law school, is not something you can help). Merit awards vary widely; there are some for only a few thousand per year; some which are only for the first year; and some which are full-tuition scholarships. I've heard of a school where the maximum merit award is about $4,000/year, which is 1/10 of the cost of attending (tuition, room/board, books, expenses, etc).</p>

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<p>I have a different perspective on this than Aries does. Almost all of the kids --no offense intended, to me they are :)--I know in law school are at top 14 law schools. Almost all either were offered merit aid by some law school (not necessarily a top 14) or were invited to apply for it. So, to me, it isn't rare. As far as I know, the 'trinity'--Yale, Harvard, and Stanford--are the only law schools which don't offer it. </p>

<p>That said, you should be careful in accepting merit money. If you are POSITIVE you want to do something "save the world-ish" you may be better off going to a top school with a good loan forgiveness program. If you really come from a poor family and/or are over 28, you may be better off going to one of the law schools which offers need-based financial aid. </p>

<p>What gets you merit money varies by school. NYU, for example, has several different merit scholarships. One is specifically for students interested in public service. To get it, you usually have to have a record of in-depth community service. You go for free, but you sign an agreement which states that you will pay back a proportionate share of the $ if you don't actually DO public service for 10 years out of law school. Someone in my building, now about 35 or so, did this. She did public service for three years and didn't have to pay anything towards her loan. Then she went to work in a corporate law department and has to pay back 70% of the money. Only X number of people in each class can get one; I don't know the number, but it's relatively small. NYU also offers another merit scholarship which is specifically aimed at people wishing to go into academia. Again, if you go into that field you pay nothing back. If you don't, you have to. From what I've seen, in addition to a high LSAT and high gpa, you have something in your background that suggests you really have a sincere interest in going into academia. </p>

<p>Some law schools give merit money to attract people outside their region. I know a dyed in the wool New Yorker who got into NYU, but got no financial aid or merit money. UChicago gave him LOTS of money, so he's going to UChicago. He did NOT get into YH or S, so it's interesting that he did get merit money at Chicago. </p>

<p>The only general advice I can offer is to get a high LSAT, a high gpa and do some community service. You can get merit money at some law schools without having all 3 of these, but having all three will maximize your chances across the board. At least, that's what I've concluded based on anecdotal evidence. </p>

<p>There are also some merit scholarships which are specifically for underrepresented minorities. There are also which are the result of weird bequests people made in wills. You will find out about these when you fill out the financial aid form and are asked such questions as "Are you a descendant of a Confederate soldier?" Of "Did you attend high school in X county in a big square state?" </p>

<p>Another potential source of merit money is your undergraduate college. There are a remarkable number of scholarships awarded by bequest or alumni associations to graduates of various colleges pursuing further schooling.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the replies!</p>

<p>"So mostly, schools have to be sure that you are going to get in somewhere else and want to lure you there. "</p>

<p>And they do this by their estimation of whether you'd get in somewhere else, I expect?</p>

<p>" The only general advice I can offer is to get a high LSAT, a high gpa and do some community service."</p>

<p>-That's good general advice for life!</p>

<p>"Are you a descendant of a Confederate soldier?" Of "Did you attend high school in X county in a big square state?" </p>

<p>-I remember answering all these questions when I applied undergrad to UCLA, and answering no on them.</p>

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<p>"-I remember answering all these questions when I applied undergrad to UCLA, and answering no on them."</p>

<p>LOL:D Let a few "yes" slip by now and then; we can call it "research" ;)</p>

<p>WF</p>

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<p>As a descendant of a Confederate soldier... where do I sign up? ;) </p>

<p>I don't disagree with you, Jonri... but, just saying, if most of the kids (finally! Someone who will not call me "Ma'am!") you know are in top 14 law schools, they are probably a very talented bunch who are the types to be offered merit aid. I believe you said before that most of your son's friends had LSATs around 175. We all know that a 175 is about the 99.6th percentile - so while law schools offer merit money, it might be safe to assume that the best law schools only offer it to a small portion of law school applicants. That is definitely a very unusual group.</p>

<p>I do agree that you should compare Loan Forgiveness with merit money/financial aid. To those, like me, who hate the idea of having debt (let's all ignore the, gulp, $80,000 of it I'm already taking out), straight-up merit money or financial aid might be the way to go. Personally, I love the idea that, should I hate practicing law, I can be an engineer and manage to repay my loans on that salary. Many loan forgiveness programmes are restricted to public service or are only given to the top students in the class, or a certain portion of the top students. HLS is ridiculously well-endowed and can provide all its students with that. Some law schools will only pay up to a certain dollar amount of the debt per year (maximum $7,000 annually for one school, forget which) - and, if you are paying for it all yourself, you'll have about $20,000/year for 10 years to repay. That would be nearly impossible to do on a prosecutor's salary unless the LFP picked up most of the loans.</p>