How do people manage it? My daughter is only in 8th grade, so I’m looking for advice from you experienced high school parents for planning the coming years.
I look on these “Chance Me” and other threads listing ECs and stats and I honestly don’t see how it is humanly possible to juggle the EC scheduling of some of these kids (especially the Ivy-aspirants.) Even if a student has the smarts, talent, focus, efficiency, drive and ability to function on four hours of sleep per night (which mine doesn’t, btw) , how do people make sure all the different rehearsal, practice, performance, competition dates don’t collide especially when the pattern of dates seem to shift like a revolving, expanding galaxy? How do you keep all the teachers/coaches/leaders happy, or at least not exasperated, as you try to prioritize commitments? Where we live, at any rate, it seems it simply isn’t possible to know all dates in advance.
My daughter’s top priorities for high school are marching band/concert band/jazz band but she is also (excitedly) thinking through the pros and cons of winter guard, tennis team, track team spring soccer and debate. She will be quitting/cutting back on 10 years of ballet …(.last year she danced six days per week) because she wants to do primarily school-based activity, and the ballet classes at her level are 80 miles away over mountainous terrain. (She has worked herself out of a job, so to speak ) Already this fall we had a big conflict because the night of the school holiday band concert (mandatory) fell on the night of her ballet dress-rehearsal for which she had a leading role. Yikes! Neither of the dates were known when it was time to commit to the role.
How, exactly is this done? I’m only asking because we have already experienced other such time conflicts in childhood when it didn’t really matter and high school seems to ramp it up, by a LOT! (FYI, we are not going the EC route to try to get into tippy tops…really nice somewhat selective schools will do thank you very much! DD just wants to have fun, stay fit, and make the most of these years.)
When they are high school sponsored activities, you have a better shot at getting advisors/coaches/teachers to try to make it work, depending on the high school. In our area, one big suburban high school is known for basically telling students, you can do only 1 major EC in a season (marching band or a sport, not both) while other schools are willing to try to be more flexible. Still, it’s not easy. As my kid moved through high school, some of the activities he signed onto as a freshman fell by the wayside and he focused on the things he really loved. Our experience was – and your mileage will vary – that to do a couple things deeply (not just in one setting, but being involved in multiple ways) told a coherent story about who he is, for college admissions.
The key is to know, as much as possible, what the cycle of commitment is for various things – if debate is most active in the fall, then that is not the time for Marching Band and a sport. But, if it is primarily a winter/spring activity, when the enormous time commitment for Marching Band has dropped off, then it can work. More experienced parents of kids who have done what she is interested in, at your high school, are your new best friends. Go to the info sessions for rising 9th graders about MB etc and grab the parents who seem to know what’s going on and get 15 minutes of advice from them. Good luck! It is so much fun to watch them grow up!
This depends a lot on the time-management skills of your kid. My son had two major EC’s in high school: newspaper and policy debate. In senior year as Opinion Editor he wrote weekly columns, conducted an occasional opinion survey (e.g., asking students to grade the school administration and the school board!). He won several state-wide awards for his opinion columns. He was also deeply involved in policy debate, which meant he was on the road during many weekends but also used much of his spare time in debate preparation and research (and his debate coach checked to see that he had completed his school assignments). He was good enough in this to be runner-up in the state team competition and winner of the individual competition.
Something had to give here. First, these were ALL of the EC’s he could possibly manage, but ones that he loved and that he was distinguished at. Second, he managed his schoolwork/homework very carefully – basically almost never took anything home! He did his Spanish homework in his math class, history in his English class, etc. That’s the only way he could manage the after- and out-of-school participation in debate. (He also worked in a life-long hobby as a way to relax.)
Thus, one key to managing things is to focus on one or two EC’s that are central and in which the kid can excel. Don’t spend time on any activity that basically requires only that you just show up. Don’t spread yourself out with too many distinct obligations. For my son, that meant he didn’t do anything in the community at large. No “service.” What he did accomplish were things that – we recognize now nearly 20 years later – he was destined to do. Journalism, political analysis. He has established a name in his field and has published a very well received non-fiction book.
Thanks @Midwestmomofboys, that would make sense that the various school-based things would try to coordinate somewhat, or at least be more understanding about other school activities. Our marching band is very competitive, all-consuming (and exciting) starting in July, so she is pretty set on the fact that that will be the only real commitment in the fall. Marching band is also great exercise (lots of complicated formations at our school) and highly social so it seems to have the complete package Right now, her band friends are her best friends, and our high school band teacher is legendary in our region. So much to look forward to. )
It’s mostly in the winter/spring she’s been thinking about, to combine fitness along with music. Would hate her to lose all her wonderful movement skills. She will be trying out Junior guard next week…if she likes it this year, with its similarity to dance, it may prove to be perfect complementing activity. Lots to think about! I know its early days, but I don’t want to have that “if only I had known” feeling later…
@mackinaw, I never realized how time-consuming debate as an EC could be…did he go on to the state level as an individual or as part of the school team? Also interesting about the opinion column. I don’t think our local school publication has anything of that depth, and it certainly doesn’t come out weekly! So great your son found his vocation at such a young age…
She can’t have it all. Your kid will need to choose. Debate is one of the most time consuming ECs. Unless your kid could get to a state level it is hard to make it stand out. My kid chose newspaper over debate for that reason. She also chose dance over sports because she could do it all year round and it was something she loved.
Thanks, @oldfort (though to look at some kids’ list of ECs, it doesn’t seem as if they’re weeding out much…not that I would ever wish that kind of jam-packed life on her.)
Unless DD changes her mind a great deal, it looks as if year-round band will be the mainstay (fortunately, her instrument, trombone, stands out and seems always in demand. Her future school has a Mock Trial event that offers a bit of debate without consuming the entire year. I think if we had a great pre-pro dance school locally she would choose that over band, but I’m happy that she’s excited for this new chapter in her life. She’s outgrown the local dance schools but can’t keep up with the one an hour+ away because I will not drive over foggy, icy mountains every night at 10 PM. Such is life!
There are some ECs that ALWAYS have overlapping schedules, and others that occasionally have conflicts. My D did ballet and spent several nights a week and most of the weekend in the studio. My S did debate and forensics and spent just about every Saturday at a tournament.
My D would have been good at debate but knew it would never work with her ballet schedule. However, she was able to do HS tennis, because matches were right after school and not on the weekends. Ballet rehearsals didn’t start until evening. Tennis season (fall sport) ended early enough so it didn’t conflict with Nutcracker rehearsals.
She was able to do community youth orchestra because they only rehearsed one week night a week and she didn’t schedule any ballet classes that night. She was permitted 2 excused absences for ballet performance rehearsals, so if the community orchestra performance conflicted with a ballet rehearsal, she could use one of those absences. The community orchestra performance was always in November and then ended for the season, so she could devote herself to the heavy ballet rehearsal schedule after.
I found her (and my S’s) schedules to be exhausting, but they loved their activities, and kept up their grades.
When you look at other people’s ECs you have no idea on how easy or hard the conflict was.You don’t know how their high schools work. For example in our high school you can do robotics, math team, orchestra, NHS and cross country with absolutely no conflict. The first four activities are run by the same people and they arrange everything so it works. And the cross country coach is very flexible and he does not care how many practices you miss. It is all about how the ECs are organized and how flexible coaches are. So those “other” kids are not superhuman. They just happen to go to high schools that those ECs could be done. Take a look on how things work at your place and make choices. Once you have a clue and choose the main ECs then you can add things as you go and time permits. For example one of my daughters have a very rigid EC during the week but she has plenty of time during the weekends. When she wanted to add volunteering she wrote to an organization she cares about and specifically asked if they had weekend opportunities and sure enough they did. So after a while you craft the ECs to go together. And obviously you only do things that you deeply care or need for your well being.
Between her 2 dance teams (school and studio) D spent about 25 hours a week dancing - year round. She didn’t do a lot of other activities except school musicals which were doable with the dance schedule. She volunteered, but mostly during the summer. She had to drop travel soccer and never went out for the school team. It was not possible. Your D will likely need to pick and choose.
My kids’ school was very supportive of their dance schedules. They were able to leave early on some days instead of staying for their study period. We were also fortunate their studio was only 20 minutes away.
School flexibility can vary. D did not have a study period at the end of the day, but the school dance coach was very aware that almost all of the team also danced for their studio teams and she was very accommodating. I think that there is some leeway given with complimentary activities.
I know exactly how much time advanced ballet takes - it’s ridiculous.
My daughter at some point had to choose. She could either advance at her studio or do some other things. She chose to stay, others left. She made the right choice for her to stay, and now fits things around ballet. She is in several clubs that have a minimal time commitment. She could not join show choir because that is in direct opposition to her ballet schedule, and a few other things that are just impossible. It’s all about choices. But she’s been in ballet since kindergarten and now teaches that level, so it’s been good for her and I think will look good on college apps (but that’s not why she does it).
So yeah, dance unfortunately is one of those extra curriculars around which it can be hard to do other things.
Keep an open mind. Let her try new things. Let her drop things.
Be completely willing to say only, "OK", when she says she wants to drop any activity. This is a lot harder than you think it will be, mostly because of your own investment in the EC. Seriously, it doesn't matter how much time and money you have invested in it, it matters that the kid is no longer interested or no longer feels she has the time.
You can't (and shouldn't) plan how this is going to work out. Trust your child.
All our advice can't really give you a roadmap because every child, every high school, every coach, every band director every EC advisor is different.
The one thing that is the most important factor in college admissions is taking appropriately challenging classes and doing well in them. People operate under the illusion that some EC or sport participation will be the ticket to college admissions and scholarships. The reality of life is that very rarely does the time and expense of years of private lessons, training, travel teams, etc. pay off in an admissions boost and a scholarship. If you spend much time here on CC it may appear as though those routes pay off handsomely, but for the vast majority of families it does not.
I do not mean to imply that your child should drop all EC's and focus relentlessly on grades and test scores. Just be realistic about the time and money you are investing. If your child loves the travel, the private lessons, etc., and you can happily afford them, and her grades don't suffer, then full speed ahead. Encourage your child to explore, find some EC's she likes, and be aware that no EC on earth is worth it if she can't keep up with her school work.
Here’s an example from a couple of my own children. When my two oldest started high school the band director was a fierce taskmaster who really stretched the kids in the bands and marching bands. he was loved, the bands won a lot of awards. BUT when HE had been a high schooler he had been able to participate in both band and sports, and his personsl belief was that this should be possible for all kids. So he had a decades long relationship with coaches at the school, and worked hard to make participation in both (for example) a fall sport and fall marching band possible. He retired after my second child’s sophomore year. The new band director SAID he would continue that tradition (I asked him about it because my own kids were both musicians and athletes). HOWEVER, he was a non-athlete and a much bigger marching band person himself, and over the course of the six years my kids worked with him (I have three), he progressively changed the culture to make it theoretically possible, but realistically impossible for any child to participate in both marching band and a fall sport. My youngest child ended up dropping marching band because she couldn’t manage to do both, and had begun to actively dislike marching bsnd.
So if you had asked me if doing both marching bsnd and a fall sport was realistic, years ago I would have enthusiasticslly said YES, but now I would say it isn’t possible at our high school.
Dance is a time sucking EC. But I also wouldn’t be reading the Ivy threads while my kid was in 8th grade and trying to figure out the path to an Ivy, honestly.
Your kid should pursue the activities that interest them. Encourage them to engage in the summer, too. That is a window with a lot of free time.
If you really care about top school admission (a goal with pitfalls of its own), read How To Be a High School Superstar for thoughts on ECs. We found the message to be quite freeing for D2, who wasn’t a fan of many traditional HS ECs to start with. She got in everyplace she applied with some great highly ranked school choices, although she didn’t find any of the Ivies to her liking and did not apply to any.
My D1 ended up with some issues with her grades freshman year because she was in too many activities. It was the one time in our kids lives we let one quit an activity midseason. HS activities take more time than middle school, so don’t let her overcommit the first year.
I love, love, love classical ballet and good contemporary dance, If it were my choice, I would probably choose ballet for her, and I think she would too, all things being equal. But where we’re standing, they’re not. We live in a small town with no one comprehensive high-quality studio, or the kind with the hours of classes and the exacting standards ballet/pointe requires to do correctly. So we cobbled together a schedule of the best teachers available from two local studios (plus tap at another) and spent Fri eve/all day Sat at a good pre-pro 80 miles away. ( That makes you crazy, with four schools expecting her to be in their productions.) Locally, she was not getting corrections or the appropriate technique…she had to internalize that from the pre-pro and try to remember and apply it herself. She also did three years of summer intensives. After a certain point it just isn’t enough to keep up. And if you’ve “drunk the water” of fairly serious ballet, its hard to go back to “Sally’s Dance” (or whatever.) You dance moms would know There’s a bit of grieving to see it coming to an end after ten years. The pre-pro is auditioning for the spring ballet today, and she will not be in it for the first time in years.
Fortunately, we have an exceptional marching band that has always won top-five honors in multi-state competitions for the last 20+ years, and an extremely creative and fun band director who chooses complex pieces. His marching formations really approach choreography (he says he’s always pleased to have dancers) so, for our daughter, that’s a really good lateral shift. And the jazz band is so fun! Usually it’s impossible to get into jazz band before sophmore or junior year, but there’s a dearth of her instrument in the classes a year a year or two ahead of her, so …we’ll see. Honestly, when I see her with her middle school band friends, I think she is the happiest she’s ever been. And that makes me very happy It’s all good. We’ll just see what else she likes that comfortably fits that schedule.
Your daughter is interested in extracurriculars that are very time-consuming. Our school was not flexible about conflicts between school-sponsored C’s and I once heard teachers fighting over a student committed to theater and chess team! In our school, sports and theater don’t mix at all. In fact, sports and theater both demand nearly exclusive commitment.
Your daughter will have to choose, most likely, but should remain open to changing priorities as she moves through high school. I had one who moved from sports to theater to music and she is now in a PhD program for music. I never imagined that!
I drove one daughter to dance an hour away, a few times/week, and she also took weeks off to perform. The principal was very supportive. You really cannot do advanced ballet and ANYTHING else. Some homeschool or go to a school like Walnut Hill. Can she do any modern or jazz in your area? I know that dance teams and competitions are popular but training is better without those things, focusing on technique classes.
If she comes downstairs to talk and unconsciously does barre while holding on to a kitchen chair, she might want to reconsider giving up dance. Maybe she can drive herself soon.
If she is relieved not to be dancing, and excited at a whole new world opening up with all those now free hours, great, and hope she can have fun exploring without feeling she needs to commit to any one area for the future.
Hi @intparent, I specifically said I am NOT trying to get her into an Ivy or a tippy top, or even thinking of ECs for anything other than her own enrichment. Just made that remark about those Ivy-aspirants because I’m amazed and a little incredulous of how/why? they do all that…lists of 15 significant ECs and accomplishments when I have found 2-3 very hard to juggle. ECs will be primaril her choices but do affect me, as I will be the one to do most of the chauffeuring if activities are far (we live with some treacherous road conditions I don’t like myself, and wouldn’t allow a 16-year-old to do on the frequent foggy/icy nights. Up and down altitude changes of nearly 3000 feet for 80 miles at 10-11:30 PM in January ? Not doin’ it…)
In all honesty, I’m of the camp where I think most people, even very able people, could benefit from a lot more down-time for dreaming/introspection/synthesizing ideas/spending unstructured time with loved ones. I wonder how jumping frantically from one thing to another compartmentalized thing really adds meaning or depth to life.I’m mostly on College Confidential because I find the topic fascinating in and of itself (you might call it a bit of a personal hobby now ;)) I starting reading CC in curiosity a few months ago because I’m a much older mom and many of my friends have kids in college now. The great majority of my thread responses have nothing to do with my daughter. I can’t say I don’t file stuff away in my head …I hope later it may intuitively come back in a form to assist her…but I hope I’m the antithesis of a pressure-mom.
Sorry, should have read more carefully. You still might want to read the High School Superstar book. I think it is helpful to see that colleges want people who are interested and interesting. And just running from one activity to another in HS (especially activities on a track with many thousands of other students on that well trodden path) isn’t necessarily the best path. For one of my kids, it was really a path she did NOT want to be on anyway. It helped us both stop worrying about that.
Hi @compmom, thanks! I think she WAS that kid who was always at the barre (whatever served as the barre) but not so much now. She watched and memorized what we call the “Clara” dance holding the Nutcracker when she was about four, and practiced it for years in the kitchen whenever I was cooking. So I was bit teary last weekend when she danced it (maybe for the last time) on stage.
So I guess what this thread is about (not so much doing ECs strategically to get into college) is, WHAT NEXT? What will be the dream…the thing(s) that makes getting out of bed so exciting…and how to manage the growing time commitments. Also,… how to begin letting go of the little girl becoming a woman, and start transferring the onus and the joys to her…
) Already this fall we had a big conflict because the night of the school holiday band concert (mandatory) fell on the night of her ballet dress-rehearsal for which she had a leading role. Yikes! Neither of the dates were known when it was time to commit to the role.
There’s a bit of grieving to see it coming to an end after ten years. The pre-pro is auditioning for the spring ballet today, and she will not be in it for the first time in years.